Kaisei Intai

[Akinomaki]

Kaisei had his family danpatsushiki today in the kokugikan (no tickets, no public, no intaizumo) with about 340 cutters, last cut by ex-heya mate Kaio, in whose heya he is coach now

oo o

oo o

Miyagino was there, and Terunofuji

o

styling

o

at last a tie fixing pic again by the okamisan - Okinoumi had the pic with wife with already fixed tie

oo

younger sister, okamisan, Tomozuna, mother, younger brother - the 3 came from Brazil for the event (took 30 hours)

ooo

Edited October 1, 2023 by Akinomaki

[Kaitetsu]

I follow some brazilian sumo athletes like Luciana Watanabe and she posted the final part of the cutters, in terms of active rikishi apart from Terunofuji, Tenshoho, Chiyomaru, Atamifuji and Takarafuji were there. Kiriyama-oyakata (ex-Asahisho, former stablemate after the Tomozuna-Oshima merge), Sanoyama-oyakata (ex-Chiyonokuni), Magaki-oyakata (ex-Ishiura), Tateyama-oyakata (ex-Homarefuji) and Isegahama-oyakata were also there to cut.
Also Fernando Kuroda (ex-Wakaazuma, brazilian juryo) cut as well, he is the one that connected Ricardo with Tomozuna.

Kimura Hisanosuke, Yobidashi Akira and Oshima-oyakata (ex-Kyokutenho) all had cuts as well.

Also interstingly, I think the gyoji holding the scissors is Shikimori Tomokazu (makushita gyoji, the most senior gyoji from Tomozuna that didnt come from Oshima), but using makuuchi gyoji Shikimori Kiichiro's robes?

And the only yobidashi in yobidashi clothes and working (with the clappers etc) is probably Yobidashi Kokichi

Edited October 2, 2023 by Kaitetsu

[Kaitetsu]

Pictures from the party afterwards (from Luciana Watanabe's instagram stories):

  

[dingo]

I like Kaisei's curious look at the topknot after it's been cut off. It's as if after all these years he finally gets to see how it looks like 

[WAKATAKE]

Why did he not have the public attend? Doesn't that take away from his ability to fundraise?

[Akinomaki]

Could be that he had no confidence to fill the hall, the oyakata has to organise the event and if the hall is only half full, the event is a loss.

22 minutes ago, WAKATAKE said:

Why did he not have the public attend? Doesn't that take away from his ability to fundraise?

But the intaizumo is one of the main sources of funds for a new oyakata, apparently he has no intention of opening a new Tomozuna beya. He may take over an existing heya, but it looks like he doesn't want to be a shisho.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Akinomaki

[Seiyashi]

18 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Could be that he had no confidence to fill the hall, the oyakata has to organise the event and if the hall is only half full, the event is a loss.

But the intaizumo is one of the main sources of funds for a new oyakata, apparently he has no intention of opening a new Tomozuna beya. He may take over an existing heya, but it looks like he doesn't want to be a shisho.

His switching to Asakayama may be an agreement between him and ex-Kaiō to eventually revive Tomozuna beya by switching kabu. Would make sense for both of them as they were ex-Kaiki's deshi and originally fought out of Tomozuna, IIRC. 

[Raishu]

8 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

His switching to Asakayama may be an agreement between him and ex-Kaiō to eventually revive Tomozuna beya by switching kabu. Would make sense for both of them as they were ex-Kaiki's deshi and originally fought out of Tomozuna, IIRC. 

Never say never, but I would be surprised if that is going to happen.

I vaguely remember reports/posts/rumors around the time of Kaio's retirement, that he and his shisho couldn't immediately agree on how they would handle the ozeki's future as oyakata. Apparently, Kaio wanted to branch out ASAP and the old Tomozuna (Kaiki) saw him as his successor. Kaiki eventually gave him permission, but Kaio stayed in Tomozuna beya as an affiliated oyakata for 18 months instead of the mandatory  minimum 12.*

Plus, they already had the opportunity to revive/preserve Tomozuna in 2017 by simply merging it into Asakayama stable + renaming the heya. Instead, Kaiki gave the stable to a former Oshima beya rikishi (Kyokutenho).

I interpret these events that Kaio always wanted to build up "his own name" and doesn't want to fly under the Tomozuna banner. 

* Don't nail me on this, my memory might have failed here and I have mixed it up with something else.

[Gurowake]

I was going to say that it didn't seem as though Kaisei had enough Makuuchi basho to open his own stable, but after looking it up he hit the mark exactly with 60.

[Asashosakari]

4 hours ago, Raishu said:

Plus, they already had the opportunity to revive/preserve Tomozuna in 2017 by simply merging it into Asakayama stable + renaming the heya. Instead, Kaiki gave the stable to a former Oshima beya rikishi (Kyokutenho).

I think you're interpreting too much into that. Why should "old" Tomozuna have shut down when there was a viable way to keep both heya open? The lives of nearly 30 people across both stables would have been impacted by that course of action. Doing something like that just for the sake of a signboard would have been exactly the kind of misplaced traditionalism that some fans like to accuse the sumo world of, but which almost never happens in reality.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Asashosakari

[Raishu]

2 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Why should "old" Tomozuna have shut down when there was a viable way to keep both heya open?

Oh, I am not saying they should have done that. I just mentioned it as a potential option. The way it was handled back then looks fine to me.

Let's stretch it a bit further: They didn't bother to put the name on Kaio six years ago, why should they do it now? As you rightfully said, it is just a signboard and aside from Kaisho, no other rikishi has a connection to the old stable. Also, in regards to prestige, we are not talking about a name like Dewanoumi, Kasugano, Isegahama, Takasago or Nishonoseki. I am pretty sure they wouldn't want any of these to vanish from the heya map.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Raishu

[Asashosakari]

1 hour ago, Raishu said:

Oh, I am not saying they should have done that. I just mentioned it as a potential option. The way it was handled back then looks fine to me.

Let's stretch it a bit further: They didn't bother to put the name on Kaio six years ago, why should they do it now? As you rightfully said, it is just a signboard and aside from Kaisho, no other rikishi has a connection to the old stable. Also, in regards to prestige, we are not talking about a name like Dewanoumi, Kasugano, Isegahama, Takasago or Nishonoseki. I am pretty sure they wouldn't want any of these to vanish from the heya map.

Well, Isegahama (10 months in 2007) and Nishonoseki (22 months in 2013/14) both did vanish as heya names in somewhat recent history; the latter was gone for a longer period of time than we've been without a Tomozuna-beya so far. And I would say that Tomozuna was seen to be at a comparable level of reputation at some point in the past, though a lot of that was bundled up in the fact that Tomozuna #7 to #10 were all in-law family relations, i.e. a reputation based more on the stable representing "traditional sumo world values" than major (dohyo or political) success. Ever since it became clear that Kaiki's son Kaishoryu wasn't going to be successful enough to continue the Tomozuna family tradition, the heya kind of lost its USP.

Anyway, I'm also inclined to bet against Asakayama-beya/-oyakata becoming Tomozuna, but I wouldn't be betting with confidence. There might still be some residual reputation value there that could bolster Kaio's political ambitions, should he have any. And his connections to the myoseki would certainly be more legitimate than Asahifuji's were to Isegahama, or Wakashimazu's and Kisenosato's to Nishonoseki.

Edit: All that aside, to bring this back to on-topicness - who knows, maybe Kaisei was actually Kaiki's ultimate chosen successor to the Tomozuna name all along? There's always the possibility that more or less surprising personal relations exist that we're just not privy to as fans. (I'm thinking of stuff like Chiyoshoma of all people supposedly having been Chiyonofuji's favourite deshi.)

Edited October 4, 2023 by Asashosakari

[bettega]

Well, Kaisei is known to be a very nice person,  easygoing and hardworking. Who knows?

[Jakusotsu]

5 hours ago, bettega said:

Well, Kaisei is known to be a very nice person,  easygoing and hardworking.

You're talking about Kaisei A, of course.

[Naganoyama]

6 hours ago, bettega said:

Well, Kaisei is known to be a very nice person,  easygoing and hardworking. Who knows?

Kaisei B?

[Akinomaki]

NSK report from the danpatsushiki

[rhyen]

Sumo prime time delivers a behind the scene video.

 

[rhyen]

Was ex-Kaiki too weak to attend the ceremony?

[Hakuhonofan]

According to Sumo Prime Time Hiro Morita,  the one fixing Kaisei's tie was Hiroko, Kaisei's wife.

[Akinomaki]

On 01/10/2023 at 12:47, Akinomaki said:

at last a tie fixing pic again by the okamisan - Okinoumi had the pic with wife with already fixed tie

oo

That was what you could see and read above  right from the start - Tomozuna-okamisan fixing the tie of Tomozuna-oyakata

1 hour ago, Hakuhonofan said:

According to Sumo Prime Time Hiro Morita,  the one fixing Kaisei's tie was Hiroko, Kaisei's wife.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Akinomaki