Aki 2022 discussion (results)

[Kaninoyama]

Can't remember when I've seen a Japanese rikishi as animated as Tobizaru just was following his win to get to double digits and a sansho. 

[Hankegami]

11 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Tamawashi is still not the oldest yūshō winner apparently - that record belongs to Tachiyama at 38 years and 9 months (so Tamawashi has to win next Aki to beat that record).

Very right on paper, but Tachiyama won that yusho back in 1916, in a time when there were two basho per year. Extremely different times. Just saying, with two basho per year Ichinojo would likely be Yokozuna (no chronic back pain), Mitakeumi still Ozeki (shoulder fully healed), perhaps Takakeisho Yokozuna (more time to heal his injuries), Terunofuji would still be in Makushita and Asanoyama under suspension. Not to mention what Tamawashi himself would be able to do with a tournament every six months.

I believe it's better to take only results from the six-basho era. We can get a more balanced frame this way.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Hankegami

[Kaninoyama]

And despite a valiant showing this basho, Hokutofuji loses his final bout to walk away sansho-less. 

Edited September 25, 2022 by Kaninoyama

[Tigerboy1966]

Daieisho wins... those komusubi slots are filling up nicely...

[Seiyashi]

1 minute ago, Hankegami said:

Very right on paper, but Tachiyama won that yusho back in 1916, in a time when there were two basho per year. Extremely different times. Just saying, with two basho per year Ichinojo would likely be Yokozuna (no chronic back pain), Mitakeumi still Ozeki (shoulder fully healed), perhaps Takakeisho Yokozuna (more time to heal his injuries), Terunofuji would be still in Makushita and Asanoyama still under suspension. Not to mention what Tamawashi himself would be able to do with a tournament every six months.

I believe it's better to take only results from the six-basho era. We can get a more balanced frame this way.

I mean, that's not me, that's what NHK says. I agree 2 basho a year puts a different spin on things, but that's much more relevant for things like Futabayama's 12 probably being a lot more etcetc. If you wanted to invoke age-related stuff then arguably Tachiyama's feat back then was more impressive, since, spitballing, science was less advanced and presumably age-related damage would stack up a lot more, so a 38 year old then would be in worse physical condition than a 38 year old today.

[Seiyashi]

19 minutes ago, Hankegami said:

Last thought. There will be a logjam at M1-2 with Kotonowaka and Meisei KK, Midorifuji 7-8 and a bunch of guys claiming a M1 spot. I hope the Committee will accept to solve the matter by opening more san'yaku slots instead than down-promoting like hell.

 

2 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Daieisho wins... those komusubi slots are filling up nicely...

With Ichinojō losing to take a larger walk out of the sanyaku, and Daieishō saving his sanyaku position, M1-2 isn't that bad. You have M1 Takayasu/Kotonowaka, M2 Meisei/Midorifuji, M3 Ura/Ichinojō. Sadanoumi and Wakamotoharu will be a bit hard done by with M4 the likely best they can do, but them's the breaks, and Hokutofuji made putting him at M5 a lot more palatable with a home-stretch collapse.

[Seiyashi]

Wow. Someone was fired up today. Big scowl, and not sure the crowd liked that manhandling of Endō.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Seiyashi

[Kaninoyama]

4 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Wow. Someone was fired up today. Big scowl, and not sure the crowd liked that manhandling of Endō.

Just practicing his best Asashoryu impression. 

Edited September 25, 2022 by Kaninoyama

[Seiyashi]

5 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

Just practicing his best Asashoryu impression. 

Uncle didn't like it - or the bout, rather.

[Hankegami]

Just now, Seiyashi said:

I mean, that's not me, that's what NHK says. I agree 2 basho a year puts a different spin on things, but that's much more relevant for things like Futabayama's 12 probably being a lot more etcetc. If you wanted to invoke age-related stuff then arguably Tachiyama's feat back then was more impressive, since, spitballing, science was less advanced and presumably age-related damage would stack up a lot more, so a 38 year old then would be in worse physical condition than a 38 year old today.

Of course, I wasn't absolutely getting at you. I was just skeptical about taking these old records as good as new.

Anyway, I won't be that sure that in the good 'ole times people aged 'faster' either. Or better, their injury risk was better guarded with a two basho strategy. Few examples: Tanikaze and Raiden fought into their forties (and so did many 18th-19th century rikishi). Tachiyama retired at 39 in 1917, Haguroyama the same in 1953, and Yoshibayama at 38 in 1959. I am positive no six-basho era Yokozuna ever retired this late in his career.

[Eikokurai]

Wakatakakage ends on 11-4 to restart an Ozeki run. His brother is in the next bout. When is the last time two brothers fought back to back in Makuuchi? (Probably last basho and I didn’t notice …)

And just to complicate the query, when is the last time two brothers WON back to back?

Edited September 25, 2022 by Eikokurai

[Kaninoyama]

Mitakeumi's shoulder must really be injured because he's not that weak. 

Edited September 25, 2022 by Kaninoyama

[Seiyashi]

Mitakeumi putting up as much resistance as a damp fish. Quite disgraceful for the second to last bout of the basho.

Unfortunately, not sure the musubi will be any better.

[Leo C]

Abema roasting the Waka bros on the replay, first making fun of Wakamotoharu's misstep in the san'yaku ceremony and then complaining Wakatakakage received the arrow the wrong way. 

[Akinomaki]

Wakamotoharu kept the shukun sequence unblemished: every day a lower ranked rikishi won against y/o

Kyokutenho had the oldest at first yusho as a record, so that never was in peril anyway, Tamawashi is now oldest since Showa

[Eikokurai]

So in the end Shodai and Mitakeumi only managed enough wins for a minimal kachikoshi between the two of them. Must be the basho with the lowest aggregate score for three Ozeki.

[Seiyashi]

More stats for Tamawashi - 4th-oldest kinboshi winner, and 5th-oldest sanshō winner.

[rhyen]

So many Takarafuji towels, impending announcement?

[Akinomaki]

34 minutes ago, Hankegami said:

Very right on paper, but Tachiyama won that yusho back in 1916, in a time when there were two basho per year. Extremely different times. Just saying, with two basho per year Ichinojo would likely be Yokozuna (no chronic back pain), Mitakeumi still Ozeki (shoulder fully healed), perhaps Takakeisho Yokozuna (more time to heal his injuries), Terunofuji would still be in Makushita and Asanoyama under suspension. Not to mention what Tamawashi himself would be able to do with a tournament every six months.

I believe it's better to take only results from the six-basho era. We can get a more balanced frame this way.

It's always convenient to ignore the past, but usually that's a mistake

[Hankegami]

1 minute ago, Akinomaki said:

It's always convenient to ignore the past, but usually that's a mistake

I would never ignore the past. However, I prefer to put it into perspective. I read someone writing that Tamawashi is the oldest yusho winner since the Showa era. That's a good cut-out.

[Leoben]

I love the little storyline of iron man Tamawashi not finishing a tournament for the first time ever in July due to covid, and coming back with a vengeance to win the next one. 

[Kaninoyama]

Takayasu in his sansho interview:

"I gave it everything I had. Tamawashi was the stronger fighter. No regrets. I'll try again next basho."

Edited September 25, 2022 by Kaninoyama

[Seiyashi]

No wonder Tamawashi's thrusting got better. Some photos from Kataonami oyakata were flashed on the NHK broadcast and they showed Tamawashi practicing pushing against two lower rankers.

[Akinomaki]

19 minutes ago, Hankegami said:

I would never ignore the past. However, I prefer to put it into perspective. I read someone writing that Tamawashi is the oldest yusho winner since the Showa era. That's a good cut-out.

Yeah, I wrote that. It is a good custom to always add the era or system for which a record holds and "all time", if it's a general record

[Akinomaki]

Tamawashi was well prepared for the yusho interview, I'm sure he had no doubt at all that he'd win. Said he thought of the yusho since three days ago.