Nagoya 2022

[Tsuchinoninjin]

1 hour ago, sumojoann said:

In thinking over all the suggestions that have been made on how to handle the Aki Banzuke, I've come to the conclusion that no matter what, every single decision that the Banzuke-makers make is going to be unfair to someone.  If they try to be fair in one regard, it will be unfair in another, and so on and so on.  I feel like @Seiyashi.  My head hurts, too.

Well, in that regard it’s not much different than other banzuke making times.

[sumojoann]

3 minutes ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

Well, in that regard it’s not much different than other banzuke making times.

I respectfully disagree.  This Banzuke-making will be exponentially worse due to the incredible number of kyujo by rikishi who were neither injured nor sick themselves.

[Seiyashi]

6 minutes ago, sumojoann said:

16 minutes ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

Well, in that regard it’s not much different than other banzuke making times.

I respectfully disagree.  This Banzuke-making will be exponentially worse due to the incredible number of kyujo by rikishi who were neither injured nor sick themselves.

Yeah, it's worse than normal because on top of playing with the uncertainty of the movement caused by a record, you now have to worry about how that record was reached. Normally an MK is just an MK but there are a lot of rikishi running around with MKs that might be KKs if you squint one way. 

[Tsuchinoninjin]

13 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Yeah, it's worse than normal because on top of playing with the uncertainty of the movement caused by a record, you now have to worry about how that record was reached. Normally an MK is just an MK but there are a lot of rikishi running around with MKs that might be KKs if you squint one way. 

I don’t think it’s so complicated, the rikishi can be judged on the days they did show up. The only special thinking that needs to be done is for Mitakeumi, and whether he is kadoban with 8 required wins, kadoban with 10 require wins, or sekiwake with 10 required wins - any of them wouldn’t be too surprising.

The mass expulsion in 2011 was way worse in regards to banzuke chaos than this.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Tsuchinoninjin

[Kurowashi]

6 minutes ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

I don’t think it’s so complicated, the rikishi can be judged on the days they did show up.

But that‘s also very suboptimal, at least for those who were out early to mid basho… For example if the basho have had ended on day 5, reverse Mitakeumi aka Shodai, would have had a mk, but now he has a kk…

[Yamanashi]

1 hour ago, sumojoann said:

I feel like @Seiyashi.  My head hurts, too.

His head hurts, too?  Oh, God.

[Tsuchinoninjin]

9 minutes ago, Kurowashi said:

But that‘s also very suboptimal, at least for those who were out early to mid basho… For example if the basho have had ended on day 5, reverse Mitakeumi aka Shodai, would have had a mk, but now he has a kk…

Yep, and the reverse could happen but that’s the way the cookie crumbles. Mid basho positive tests have been a possibility for so long I would bet everyone had an understanding of what could happen.

[Seiyashi]

9 minutes ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

Yep, and the reverse could happen but that’s the way the cookie crumbles. Mid basho positive tests have been a possibility for so long I would bet everyone had an understanding of what could happen.

I doubt it though. I mean I would be pleasantly surprised if the NSK had had a contingency plan for this but it's much more likely they don't, judging by the way they usually do things.

In hindsight, the yaocho expulsions were straightforward as it was just a matter of compressing the banzuke upwards. This is different since there's no call for doing the same necessarily. 

In any case it would be a very bold person that would put in their GTB before the customary board meeting. And with the number of kyūjō shimpan including Sadogatake, that might be later than usual. 

[Seiyashi]

On a slightly different subject, this might be jinxing it but I hope no news of any withdrawals today is good news. 

[Kurowashi]

2 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

I doubt it though. I mean I would be pleasantly surprised if the NSK had had a contingency plan for this but it's much more likely they don't, judging by the way they usually do things.

This is also my assumption.

[sumojoann]

2 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

On a slightly different subject, this might be jinxing it but I hope no news of any withdrawals today is good news. 

Fingers crossed that there will be no more withdrawals period.

[Seiyashi]

54 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

His head hurts, too?  Oh, God.

You should only be worried once Reonito, Gurowake, Sakura, Asashosakari or other luminaries complain of headaches! My headache is maybe an Ishiura scale injury in the scheme of things.

To be fair it becomes simpler to play GTB once day 15 completes as you can just do multiple guesses based on different assumptions (e.g. whether COVID kyūjō is considered a freeze or simple absence). That's just more tedious work but not necessarily complicated per se, because you just need to pick one of say three or four different arrangements in the end. It's only if the shimpan are inconsistent about it across different rikishi that we have a problem, because then you have to divine how the shimpan treat different rikishi and when and where their dividing line for COVID kyūjō vs simple absences is. 

Edited July 23, 2022 by Seiyashi

[Gurowake]

I plan on not entering GTB.  I will update RotoSumo's banzuke on Sunday as usual, and then ignore sumo until the next tournament, whenever that is.  If I didn't have the the responsibility for RotoSumo I wouldn't even bother seeing how it ends.  It's just a complete mess that is better left ignored, IMO.

[Seiyashi]

3 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

I plan on not entering GTB.

And there's the COVID kyūjō! 

[Michishige]

Is there any precedent for temporarily expanding the ranks of Juryo and/or Makuuchi? I bet they could alleviate some of the fairness concerns by simply making room for promotees from Makushita who would be negatively impacted by the freezing of the banzuke. They could perhaps do this with the acknowledgment that the ranks would shrink again for the December basho.  

[Seiyashi]

5 minutes ago, Michishige said:

Is there any precedent for temporarily expanding the ranks of Juryo and/or Makuuchi? I bet they could alleviate some of the fairness concerns by simply making room for promotees from Makushita who would be negatively impacted by the freezing of the banzuke. They could perhaps do this with the acknowledgment that the ranks would shrink again for the December basho.  

While it's not impossible it would be very drastic. I believe makuuchi shrunk to 40 in the wake of the yaocho expulsions for one basho only, so doing the same this time would acknowledge a banzuke problem on the scale of that incident. 

That said, I don't know that it'll be necessarily justified. It might still be possible to fit the banzuke by throwing around a bit more banzuke luck than usual. 

[Akinomaki]

Today started over two hours late, the juryo dohyo-iri will be 40 minutes late, the makuuchi one 20 minutes. Yesterday the dohyo-iri was still on normal schedule, only the starting time very late. At the end of the basho they start always later.

 https://www.sumo.or.jp/Watching/guide/Jul/schedule/612/

 

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by Akinomaki

[dingo]

6 hours ago, bettega said:

And nobody talks about Kaisei's last basho 

 

 

(well, maybe not the last, but chances are...)

It's been mentioned a couple of times in this thread I think. I really like him and would be quite sad if he would quit. He always felt like a carefree and very nice guy, but at the same time taking sumo seriously and liking it. It feels like all of the old guard who I used to see on the dohyo for a long time are finally succumbing to injury, age or both. For now Okinoumi, Myogiryuu, Tamawashi, Takayasu, Chiyoshoma and some others remain, but  I fear it won't be for long. 

[rhyen]

Looks like Gounoyama learnt that Nodowa works only if you have the reach to prevent your opponent from grabbing you.

[Godango]

Atamifuji must have some seriously slow-growing hair. 

[Benihana]

5 hours ago, sumoforever said:

Tamawashi has long been one of my favourite rikishi. When interviewed, always seems like a really nice guy. I'm sad to see his consecutive match record disrupted by all this, after more than 18 years without missing a match.

I read somewhere (I forget where) that the NSK will allow his consecutive match record to continue, as if this covid-related absence never happened. Does anyone have a source to corroborate this? 

Also thinking of Nishikigi and Tobizaru, who I believe had never missed a match either!

It was said on the broadcast, yesterday. The show will go on.

[rhyen]

Never imagine that the Makuuchi dohyo-iri would be as sparse as a regular Juryo dohyo-iri. 

[Benihana]

24 minutes ago, rhyen said:

Never imagine that the Makuuchi dohyo-iri would be as sparse as a regular Juryo dohyo-iri. 

Yeah, they should do east and west in one take.

[Benihana]

Asanowaka is my new personal hero. Seeing Terutsuyoshi getting henkaed, makes my day.

[Eikokurai]

RE: promotions and fairness. Not all promotions and demotions are equal. If a Maegashira gets unfairly dropped a few Maegashira ranks because he was forced out, that’s not that big an injustice. Their salary won’t change. But a Makushita being denied promotion to Juryo, or Juryo to Makuuchi has meaningful consequences. I’d find a way to correctly promote or demote those who actually deserve it, while limiting the impact to but not freezing the ranks of those were unfortunate to be made to go kyujo.