YDC convenes after Hatsu 2022

[Kintamayama]

The YDC convened today, and Chairman Yano chose to talk about Asanoyama and his 6 basho suspension. "There was some talk about seeing if maybe something can be done with the punishment. It's not that the YDC is demanding anything since we have no say in this, just some idle talk. We have heard a lot of voices from the public on this subject as well so some of us are speaking on behalf of the fans," he said. Nothing on this subject was reported after the meeting to the Kyokai, but Shibatayama did address the issue. "An Oyakata from the heya says he has been training at the heya, but it's not like he's going to return to the dohyo soon so he's pacing himself and moving his body," he said. There is no such thing as "amnesty" in the books. "A candidate for Yokozuna acting the way he did deserves a serious punishment, but since he can't do any sumo we were wondering how he has been coming along lately with training. We hear he is training seriously and we hope when the day to return comes he will be ready, body and soul.." summed Mr. Yano

Edited January 24, 2022 by Kintamayama

[shumitto]

Today I asked myself the same question about Abi. He transgressed, that is true. But what's the point of having a good talent waste some time home, just to watch him roll over his lower division foes like a bullet train. This kind of question becomes more important when talent pool is thin.

Almost 10 years ago,  we reached the point of having Hakuho backed up by 6 Ozeki (3 of whom managed to make it to Y), so it was ok to sideline one of them for a while, but now with two kadoban Ozeki it is such a waste to see Asanoyama away. 

[Kaninoyama]

2 hours ago, shumitto said:

Today I asked myself the same question about Abi. He transgressed, that is true. But what's the point of having a good talent waste some time home, just to watch him roll over his lower division foes like a bullet train. This kind of question becomes more important when talent pool is thin.

Almost 10 years ago,  we reached the point of having Hakuho backed up by 6 Ozeki (3 of whom managed to make it to Y), so it was ok to sideline one of them for a while, but now with two kadoban Ozeki it is such a waste to see Asanoyama away. 

In Abi's case though the punishment seems to have transformed him. He's just a different guy now. In interviews he used to be a grinning goofball, as was his actual character. Now he's humble and reserved, and you can tell the whole ordeal has shocked him into taking his career seriously. 

[Godango]

2 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

In Abi's case though the punishment seems to have transformed him. He's just a different guy now. In interviews he used to be a grinning goofball, as was his actual character. Now he's humble and reserved, and you can tell the whole ordeal has shocked him into taking his career seriously. 

Agreed. In what may be unhappy news for other suspended sekitori, Abi is serving as an excellent example of the effectiveness of long suspensions.

I will also agree thought that I dislike the steam-rolling of lower rankers, but only in the sense that it takes away an earning opportunity for a legitimate non-sekitori. I was delighted to see Nishikawa defeat Ryuden and thus earn the yusho prize (I'm not going crazy right -- lower-division yusho still have a monetary prize attached?). 

Could you look at a kosho-style system for suspended Y/O rikishi? Yeah maybe. That said, hopefully Asanoyama serves as a deterrent to others (particularly in the top two ranks). Alternatively, if this is the kind of punishment we continue to see for egregious rule-breaking that doesn't warrant expulsion, then it's not something we'll have to worry about all that often.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Godango

[Gurowake]

11 minutes ago, Godango said:

I'm not going crazy right -- lower-division yusho still have a monetary prize attached?

I don't know why it would have been dropped.  Makushita was worth a half million yen in 2003 according to some random guy on the forum back then.   According to some other random people it didn't change when the salaries were increased a few years ago.

 

[Sue]

2 hours ago, Godango said:

I will also agree thought that I dislike the steam-rolling of lower rankers, but only in the sense that it takes away an earning opportunity for a legitimate non-sekitori. I was delighted to see Nishikawa defeat Ryuden and thus earn the yusho prize (I'm not going crazy right -- lower-division yusho still have a monetary prize attached?). 

Could you look at a kosho-style system for suspended Y/O rikishi?

If it were up to me (and it never will be), I'd remove rikishi from the banzuke entirely after their second full basho spent kyujo, and then tsukedashi them back in at a rank calculated from a chart based on their last rank on the basho and time spent away once they're ready to come back in. (For long suspensions, you could move them straight to Bg immediately.) If you wanted to protect lower rankers from being curb stomped by over-ranked seniors on their way back up, you could give them a backstop rank (Ms15 for Sanyaku, Ms100 for Makuuchi, Sd100 for Juryo, for example, or Ms10/Ms15/Ms100 if you wanted to be more generous, and Sd100 for anyone who'd gotten to the Makushita joi) and tsukedashi them back in at either their backstop rank or the rank from the chart, whichever is higher.

You'd want to make the backstop a one-time thing, though, to prevent it from extending careers of folks who ought to be moving on to blue jacket wearing, and force rikishi to re-earn higher ranks after reentry to qualify for another backstop if they go long kyujo again.

[Seiyashi]

The simpler way to settle it IMO would have been to make the suspended rikishi participate in as many basho as their suspension as if it were a "technical examination" instead. So they would be disqualified for all prizes on their way back up and the next highest scoring rikishi would get it instead.

So under that system, Abi wouldn't be eligible for the two makushita yusho he eventually got, and the makushita yusho would have to be settled by a 5-way playoff in both cases. 

That makes the trip down the banzuke a sufficient ordeal while also avoiding ruining a chance at the yusho for lower rankers. I don't have a good solution for an ex-sekitori breaking a would-be 7-0 though, since that has outsize implications in makushita.

[RabidJohn]

The suspension (with the subsequent loss of rank and earnings) was the punishment decided on and announced.

That's a full stop at the end of the above sentence. 

Any restriction on what returning rikishi can earn/win on their way back is unfair extra punishment.

However, restricting a rikishi's earnings/winnings would be a perfectly acceptable punishment (to me) without any need for suspension, and without the NSK losing the use of a valuable asset. 

But that's all irrelevant. It's obvious the YDC discussed the ozeki situation or they wouldn't have come around to talking about how much they missed Asanoyama, but no praise for Mitakeumi and none for Terunofuji sticking it out despite injury... 

Yano-san, WTF?

[Akinomaki]

11 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

The YDC convened today, and Chairman Yano chose to talk about Asanoyama and his 6 basho suspension. "There was some talk about seeing if maybe something can be done with the punishment. It's not that the YDC is demanding anything since we have no say in this, just some idle talk. We have heard a lot of voices from the public on this subject as well so some of us are speaking on behalf of the fans," he said. Nothing on this subject was reported after the meeting to the Kyokai, but Shibatayama did address the issue. "An Oyakata from the heya says he has been training at the heya, but it's not like he's going to return to the dohyo soon so he's pacing himself and moving his body," he said. There is no such thing as "amnesty" in the books. "A candidate for Yokozuna acting the way he did deserves a serious punishment, but since he can't do any sumo we were wondering how he has been coming along lately with training. We hear he is training seriously and we hope when the day to return comes he will be ready, body and soul.." summed Mr. Yano

Especially of course the fans from Asanoyama's home prefecture continuously demand a reduction of the excessive punishment - double that of Abi for a rikishi with a much less erratic character than Abi had, so he there is not much to be fixed by that punishment. The NSK threw away the best Japanese rikishi they had, I doubt he can make a comeback like Abi after that needless ordeal.

This thing made me lose a lot of interest in sumo and after Hakuho is gone and Enho slowly dropping out of the paid ranks, the only thing that really keeps me interested is Abi fighting back at the moment. I'm rooting for him as a victim of institutional stupidity, which is pandemic all over the world. I keep telling from the start of this era of decay that idiotic corona measures are destroying our society and make more people sick (and stupid), than corona ever will. People everywhere on the planet are fed up with it, but there is no vaccine against the imbacillus, as I call it.

[RabidJohn]

6 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

... the only thing that really keeps me interested is Abi fighting back at the moment. 

In that case I hope Abi does exceedingly well!

I'm sure I'm not the only one who would miss your posts, especially the news and photos.

[Kintamayama]

Twitter is exploding with Asanoyama related tweets and polls. One of them at least shows that more than 50% are for reducing the punishment. What I don't get is why the YDC decided to address this now, after 4 bashos have passed.

[Kintamayama]

1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

This thing made me lose a lot of interest in sumo

I've been losing interest for years.

[Kintamayama]

Other things were discussed at the meeting as well. "Mitakeumi's promotion should be a stimulus for Shoudai and Takakeishou. Takakeishou has to bring more energy," said Chairman Yano, who retired after this basho. His successor is Mr. Masahiko Koumura, former vice president of the Liberal Democratic Party.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Kintamayama

[Kintamayama]

Worries about Terunofuji's knee were also voiced at the meeting. "Is his knee OK?". Chairman Yano: "The Yokozuna has been training and gambarizing. He is a Yokozuna that is showing a lot of hinkaku and I really hope he will properly be in good shape,"

[shumitto]

2 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

I've been losing interest for years.

same here

[Yamanashi]

2 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Worries about Terunofuji's knee were also voiced at the meeting. "Is his knee OK?". Chairman Yano: "The Yokozuna has been training and gambarizing. He is a Yokozuna that is showing a lot of hinkaku and I really hope he will properly be in good shape,"

Since he's retiring, maybe he just wanted to get a lot of stuff off of his chest.  If so, his innermost thoughts are more trivial than sublime.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Yamanashi

[Tsuchinoninjin]

4 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

I keep telling from the start of this era of decay that idiotic corona measures are destroying our society and make more people sick (and stupid), than corona ever will. People everywhere on the planet are fed up with it, but there is no vaccine against the imbacillus, as I call it.

You should instead be happy to hold this (stupid) opinion since you were lucky enough the corona measures were the worst thing to happen to you during this shitshow.

You really have to wonder if its so important to Asanoyama supporters that he be able to pay some girl so he can kid himself about being masterful at conversation, if any of them supported Shobushi's funeral fees. Or is late 20s now decrepit and frail enough that's its normal to die from airborne diseases?

Edited January 25, 2022 by Tsuchinoninjin

[Kintamayama]

4 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

Since he's retiring, maybe he just wanted to get a lot of stuff off of his chest.  If so, his innermost thoughts are more trivial than sublime.

He wasn't the one saying all of this stuff-he said "things were being said" plus things he himself said, though it was difficult to discern what is what is what.

[Sue]

10 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Especially of course the fans from Asanoyama's home prefecture continuously demand a reduction of the excessive punishment - double that of Abi for a rikishi with a much less erratic character than Abi had, so he there is not much to be fixed by that punishment.

Abi's punishment was a warning to the other rikishi, and Asanoyama went and did it anyway. Also, he hung his shisho and the head of the NSK out to dry and made them publicly lose face. Some of his punishment was for the actual offence, but the other half was for lying about it.

[Seiyashi]

1 hour ago, Sue said:

11 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Especially of course the fans from Asanoyama's home prefecture continuously demand a reduction of the excessive punishment - double that of Abi for a rikishi with a much less erratic character than Abi had, so he there is not much to be fixed by that punishment.

Abi's punishment was a warning to the other rikishi, and Asanoyama went and did it anyway. Also, he hung his shisho and the head of the NSK out to dry and made them publicly lose face. Some of his punishment was for the actual offence, but the other half was for lying about it.

Some of the punishment was for the offence, some for lying about it, and some for doing it as an ozeki.

[Jakusotsu]

4 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Some of the punishment was for the offence, some for lying about it, and some for doing it as an ozeki.

Which made a six-basho-suspension necessary to make him drop deeper than Abi did.

[Tsubame]

On 25/01/2022 at 22:18, Jakusotsu said:

Which made a six-basho-suspension necessary to make him drop deeper than Abi did.

Interesting thought. That never occured to me.

[davide1066]

On 25/01/2022 at 04:57, shumitto said:

same here

Not surprised. I suspect there is a large, silent chorus echoing your comment. What's needed most? An honest re-assessment and restructuring from the top? A Japanese "local hero" who behaves himself? 

[Churaumi]

1 hour ago, Tsubame said:

Interesting thought. That never occured to me.

I don't think the Kyokai has a mechanism to just demote somebody by fiat. They rely on suspensions to spoil records and drop people that way. Maybe that's the more elegant solution to this. Especially since the extra 3 basho Asanoyama got compared to Abi were basically just to get him out of his ozeki status. They could just come up with some way to say "Your character isn't up to ozeki status, now you are a sekiwake, and you are suspended for X basho." That way financial, time, and retribution penalties can be brought without sidelining a talent for a solid year.

(I'm personally fine with the current system though. Just brainstorming a compromise.)

[Eikokurai]

On 25/01/2022 at 15:07, Seiyashi said:

The simpler way to settle it IMO would have been to make the suspended rikishi participate in as many basho as their suspension as if it were a "technical examination" instead. So they would be disqualified for all prizes on their way back up and the next highest scoring rikishi would get it instead.

So under that system, Abi wouldn't be eligible for the two makushita yusho he eventually got, and the makushita yusho would have to be settled by a 5-way playoff in both cases. 

That makes the trip down the banzuke a sufficient ordeal while also avoiding ruining a chance at the yusho for lower rankers. I don't have a good solution for an ex-sekitori breaking a would-be 7-0 though, since that has outsize implications in makushita.

I like this idea, but how do you deal with results from their bouts re: the aite’s records? Suppose a guy ends up 6-1 because he lost to Abi, while a guy who didn’t gets 7-0, same as Abi. Since Abi isn’t eligible for the yusho, the 7-0 guy takes it. The 6-1 guy is getting hard done by here for having faced an ex-sekitori.

Edit: Ah, I guess that’s what you meant by the final sentence about breaking a 7-0?

Edited January 27, 2022 by Eikokurai