Kyushu 2021 discussion

[Tigerboy1966]

Ryuden wins his second makushita yusho. His first was at Aki 2012. Is 9 years a record gap?

Edited November 26, 2021 by Tigerboy1966
correction

[Naganoyama]

Aki 2012

[yohcun]

Kinbozan reminds me of Ichinojo in the interview room. Enormous foreigner with a small voice and darting eyes like "what on earth am I doing here!?"

[code_number3]

Ura has 10 wins after another katasukashi. It's his 4th so far this basho. Will he get his first sansho?

Edited November 26, 2021 by code_number3

[Taliesin]

Tamajiro vs Endo huh. 3 matta.

And one on Takakeisho. With Abi's win things are really interesting now.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Taliesin

[Seiyashi]

I have no idea how Abi didn't lose the bout first, what with all the flailing about the dohyo he did. But his increased mass and presumably lowered CG seems to be doing wonders for him; I wouldn't be surprised if he was back in the sanyaku and taking the sekiwake spot he should have had much earlier by Haru.

[Kaninoyama]

1 minute ago, Seiyashi said:

I have no idea how Abi didn't lose the bout first, what with all the flailing about the dohyo he did. But his increased mass and presumably lowered CG seems to be doing wonders for him; I wouldn't be surprised if he was back in the sanyaku and taking the sekiwake spot he should have had much earlier by Haru.

Have you never seen Abi do sumo before? 

[Akinomaki]

Abi was all fighting spirit - no.1. secured today. My hope that he'll be in the yusho race till the end was fulfilled.

[Seiyashi]

12 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

15 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

I have no idea how Abi didn't lose the bout first, what with all the flailing about the dohyo he did. But his increased mass and presumably lowered CG seems to be doing wonders for him; I wouldn't be surprised if he was back in the sanyaku and taking the sekiwake spot he should have had much earlier by Haru.

Have you never seen Abi do sumo before? 

I have - and that's part of the point: in his past self, he would have been face flat on the dohyo by now. It's not as if Takakeisho doesn't know how to deliver a good hatakikomi when he sees one; he's deceptively fast with sidesteps despite his bulk.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Katooshu]

Terunofuji yorikiri Mitakeumi has become one of the most reliable results in sumo

Now Abi vs Teru - their paths always missed one another's. Now they meet for the 1st time at a pivotal point in the yusho race. It's destiny! Two comeback kids! Looking forward to it 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Katooshu

[Kaninoyama]

1 minute ago, Seiyashi said:

I have - and that's part of the point: in his past self, he would have been face flat on the dohyo by now. It's not as if Takakeisho doesn't know how to deliver a good hatakikomi when he sees one; he's deceptively fast with sidesteps despite his bulk.

As you can see from my avatar, I've been on the Abi train since long before it was fashionable. Been laughed at here for suggesting he may one day make Ozeki, if not even higher, but he now has the only two things he's ever been missing to make that happen: sufficient bulk and and the right attitude. 

[Seiyashi]

12 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

As you can see from my avatar, I've been on the Abi train since long before it was fashionable. Been laughed at here for suggesting he may one day make Ozeki, if not even higher, but he now has the only two things he's ever been missing to make that happen: sufficient bulk and and the right attitude. 

It's probably still out for the jury whether the attitude lasts, but I agree with the bulk. He's also probably going to land on the joi borderline if not actually in it (unless he wins the yusho), in which case he would probably be capitalising on an excellent time to storm up the ranks too, what with all the hot picks of last year (the two junior Kotos and Hoshoryu) having somewhat run out of steam along the way, and a general weakness and/or inconsistency in everyone not called Terunofuji or Takakeisho.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Katooshu]

Yokozuna Abi 

[Katooshu]

Not that I think that will ever happen, but he's sure on form and hard charging thrusters (Daiesho, Onosho, Takakeisho) have given Teru problems before. I can see Abi getting a hand on the neck and charging forward as he does, but Teru also has the power to swat him aside in an instant. 

It must be one of the highest level pairings (in ability, not simply rank) not to happen yet.

[Seiyashi]

7 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

Not that I think that will ever happen, but he's sure on form and hard charging thrusters (Daiesho, Onosho, Takakeisho) have given Teru problems before. I can see Abi getting a hand on the neck and charging forward as he does, but Teru also has the power to swat him aside in an instant. 

It must be one of the highest level pairings (in ability, not simply rank) not to happen yet.

I'd say more a matter of form rather than ability. I am still a little more bearish on Abi's prospects because he hasn't had the full slate of joi+sanyaku to really test his sumo, but he's definitely riding a wave coming into the bout tomorrow. I would be pleasantly surprised if an upset occurs although I don't think it improbable.

One thing Abi has over all the oshi-types you've mentioned is a much better reach. Combined with his bulk, it seems to make him less susceptible to the hatakikomi counters that would ordinarily be applied to them (since he doesn't need to extend as far to apply as much pressure), and his arms can keep Terunofuji's own grip at bay. We could see a bit of a tsuppari-fest (which was ex-Terao's forte, naturally) tomorrow before anyone gets to business.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Jakusotsu]

At least Abi won't fall into the mawashi trap, that's for sure.

[Taliesin]

Meanwhile with Meisei, Ichinojo, Kiribayama all 5-8, and Takanosho 9-4 (and facing Hidenoumi tomorrow) I wonder if he has a shot at jumping straight to sekiwake.

[Amamaniac]

38 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

I would be pleasantly surprised if an upset occurs although I don't think it improbable.

Likewise.  But if there is a big (and I mean "big") upset tomorrow, what happens next.  I don't see the Judges' Committee coming out with the final day pairings until after tomorrow's last bout.  There is a lot riding on the outcome of the Abi-Terunofuji showdown.  An Abi win will just create a tie going into day 15.  Teru can expect to face and hopefully win against Takakeisho (O1e is the conventional senshuraku opponent for the current banzuke form, but Shodai won't generate much drama).  That would leave Abi's opponent undecided (if only they could let Hokutofuji have another go at Abi... LOL).  If the wave that Abi is on right now continues, then we might just get a playoff, which would jack the excitement level in this otherwise meh tournament off the charts!

Will we see a ketteisen in this tournament?  I for one would love to see that scenario play out.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Amamaniac

[Taliesin]

In that case, why not throw Shodai at Abi?

[Seiyashi]

13 minutes ago, Taliesin said:

Meanwhile with Meisei, Ichinojo, Kiribayama all 5-8, and Takanosho 9-4 (and facing Hidenoumi tomorrow) I wonder if he has a shot at jumping straight to sekiwake.

This is jumping the GTB gun somewhat, but I think the answer won't be yes. 

Historically, only 2 yusho-honour (YDJ) double-digit maegashira have gone to sekiwake: Kiyokuni in 1964 and Ichinojo in 2014. Kiyokuni's wasn't hard; only he and Kitanofuji scored double-digit KK amongst the maegashira, with everyone else recording marginal KKs or otherwise MKs. Three of four junior sanyaku getting demoted as well meant that it wasn't hard to plug the gap with Kiyokuni and Kitanofuji, even if they were perhaps a little overpromoted before their time (both shin-sanyaku promptly went MK).

Ichinojo's case in Aki 2014 is a little more curious, because arguably Aminishiki, four ranks above him with a 10-5 KK and a gino-sho, should have been a better promotee. That, or Tochiozan, two ranks above him with 11-4, but no special prize. Maybe the committee found it hard to argue against two special prizes and a bout with Hakuho, and Ichinojo was catapulted to S1w despite being the lowest ranked of the sanyaku promotees on that banzuke.

Given that Abi has a bout with Terunofuji, is in sole possession of the jun-yusho at the moment, and appears to be a shoo-in for at least one if not two sansho, then the same logic may appear to apply as it did in Ichinojo's case. However, Abi is five ranks under where Ichinojo was in Aki 2014, and has to compete with a possibly 10+ KK Takanosho for that single sekiwake slot (Aki 2014 had two vacant sekiwake slots). IMO, it's much more likely that he beats Ura and Hokutofuji for an express return to komusubi instead, with the other two as M1s.

The only case I can see for him jumping straight to S1w will be Takanosho choking both his remaining bouts to end at 9-6, and Abi beating Terunofuji both tomorrow and in the playoff for the yusho, which will almost certainly get him the kanto-sho and shukun-sho if not the gino sho as well. A lot of things have to go right for this to happen. In addition, I don't know if the banzuke committee will be reluctant to reward his return to makuuchi (from suspension for misconduct, mind you) with a new career high rank, even with an outstanding result: don't forget that Daieisho also infamously got pipped for a sanyaku return despite a yusho earlier this year.

[Seiyashi]

28 minutes ago, Taliesin said:

In that case, why not throw Shodai at Abi?

Anyone really thinks that Shodai is a sterner test than Takakeisho this basho, at least on the results?

That said, Abi v Terunofuji is one strike against Eikokurai's maxim of "the maegashira is never allowed to play catch-up", because this is exactly what is happening here. I suspect, though, that part of this is due to shoddy matchmaking; Mitakeumi should have been the first gate and then Takakeisho (especially as Mitakeumi has a much better H2H against Abi (6(+1F)-2) than Takakeisho (2-3 including today)). Then, if Abi got past Mitakeumi, you at least had Shodai and Takakeisho to throw at him, with the option of subbing Terunofuji for Shodai if Terunofuji dropped a bout otherwise.

Now, Abi is in the position of being able to force a yokozuna to the ketteisen, after beating only a single ozeki (the rest of his opposition were lower-makuuchi maegashira). Even Ichinojo needed to get past Yoshikaze (M3), the ozeki Kisenosato and Goeido, and Kakuryu before he had the privilege of fighting Hakuho on day 14, and that was arguably a case of running out of roadblocks.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Kaninoyama]

1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

It's probably still out for the jury whether the attitude lasts, but I agree with the bulk. He's also probably going to land on the joi borderline if not actually in it (unless he wins the yusho), in which case he would probably be capitalising on an excellent time to storm up the ranks too, what with all the hot picks of last year (the two junior Kotos and Hoshoryu) having somewhat run out of steam along the way, and a general weakness and/or inconsistency in everyone not called Terunofuji or Takakeisho.

He could always relapse, but I read a recent interview (in Japanese only) where he was plenty contrite about his past transgressions, and, timed right when he had just become a new father, the suspension seems to have shocked him into a newfound maturity and sense of gratitude just to be able to still be in the sumo game. People make mistakes, learn, and grow up. He's a changed person. 

Likewise, did you or anyone else see Ryuden's yusho interview? He probably made 4-5 apologetic bows during the brief interview and appeared almost ashamed to be on TV. Like Abi, he also expressed remorse and, more than joy at winning the kakudan yusho, he appeared to just be grateful he was able to retain his career. 

 

[RabidJohn]

Splendid David vs Goliath wins for Ishiura and Kotoeko today.

Sadanoumi made that awfully easy for Chiyoshoma...

I'm having to reassess my opinion of Hidenoumi. He's a personality vacuum in comparison to his brother, and I've never been impressed by his sumo before, but he's snuck up and KKd at his highest rank by handing Takayasu his MK... Huh?

Looks like Ura's making another play for a sanyaku slot. That was a superb win over Ichinojo. He's really got that katasukashi nailed now.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, Abi looks to have gained not merely in bulk, but also in control. Pre-suspension Abi would have lost his footing/balance somewhere in today's yusho eliminator against Takakeisho, but not this guy.
I do hope it's been matched by a gain in mental control that will keep him out of trouble now. He's served his sentence (which cost him a chunk of his peak career), so I'm prepared to give him the benefit. Good luck to him in the yusho race and in his inevitable return to the joi.

Mitakeumi needs to address his vulnerability to a maemitsu grip. He looks even more helpless than Takakeisho...
However, it's great to see Terunofuji still on course to match or maybe exceed his career best.

[Eikokurai]

48 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

would jack the excitement level in this otherwise meh tournament off the charts

Short of Terunofuji trailing Abi and playing catch up for the tension, it’s hard to see what could be different about this basho to make it more interesting, imo. You’ve got at least one Ozeki doing his job by being right in the yusho race, a hiramaku threatening an upset and a Yokozuna doing what he should but being pushed all the way by the chasers. Up to day 10, we also had a Sekiwake in the hunt (Mitakeumi) and several other Maegashira guys keeping pace (Ura, Hokutofuji, Tamawashi). I think narrative-wise the basho has delivered. This crop of rikishi aren’t going to serve up anything better than they have this basho. It’s not like we have multiple Yokozuna able to clash on senshuraku for the title.

Or did you mean the quality of the sumo?

[RabidJohn]

I almost forgot! I thought Kiribayama's bout against Takarafuji was quietly hilarious.

His inexperience showed when he went for a nodowa.

"Wait.. wut?"

He even tried again, probably unable to believe it wasn't there!

Lucky to get the win, IMO.