Natsu basho 2021

[Seiyashi]

4 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

What chances they meet each other for kachikoshi?

I assume you mean Shodai and Asanoyama. Pretty high, although we're probably going to see Takanosho fall out of sanyaku first before we get there (and his sacrifice is probably necessary to get two of them on the road to KK in the first place). That said, going by historical trends, I think Asanoyama will settle KK before then.

[Kaninoyama]

1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

Mainoumi is getting waspish as he gets older. Give him 20 years and he'll be a good replacement for Kitanofuji.

With his pedigree, Kitanofuji can get away with his grumpy takes. Mainoumi can't. 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Kaninoyama

[robnplunder]

18 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

Hoshoryu showing why so many of us are so bullish on his future.

He has been improving steadily.  I feel things are coming together for him.  If he gains 10 lbs in the right places, who knows where he will end up.   

[Eikokurai]

4 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

I assume you mean Shodai and Asanoyama. Pretty high, although we're probably going to see Takanosho fall out of sanyaku first before we get there (and his sacrifice is probably necessary to get two of them on the road to KK in the first place). That said, going by historical trends, I think Asanoyama will settle KK before then.

Have I done this right? I was trying to find how many times two Ozeki have met on day 15 tied at 7-7, but my search says zero. I can't believe that's true, so I'm assuming I've bungled the search.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&day=15&hth=1&rank1=O&wins1=7&winsopt1=1&rank2=O&wins2=7&winsopt2=1

[Jakusotsu]

3 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Have I done this right?

Looks right to me, so it apparently didn't happen. Weird.

[Seiyashi]

6 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Have I done this right? I was trying to find how many times two Ozeki have met on day 15 tied at 7-7, but my search says zero. I can't believe that's true, so I'm assuming I've bungled the search.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&day=15&hth=1&rank1=O&wins1=7&winsopt1=1&rank2=O&wins2=7&winsopt2=1

It apparently is; I've removed one side of the equation and the only time I can spot an ozeki involved in a 7-7 is with two sekiwake - Goeido against Takekaze in Aki 2014 and Terunofuji against Kaisei (with a rare komatasukui) in Nagoya 2016.

EDIT: removing the ozeki constraint from one side of this query also adds only one more bout: Tamanoshima v Myobudani in Natsu 1967.

The closest to your situation is with Chiyotaikai, Kotooshu, and Kaio in 2007 and 2009, where they met each other with 7-7s on day 14.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Eikokurai]

4 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Looks right to me, so it apparently didn't happen. Weird.

 

2 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

It apparently is; I've removed one side of the equation and the only time I can spot an ozeki involved in a 7-7 is with two sekiwake - Goeido against Takekaze in Aki 2014 and Terunofuji against Kaisei (with a rare komatasukui) in Nagoya 2016.

The closest to your situation is with Chiyotaikai, Kotooshu, and Kaio in 2007 and 2009, where they met each other with 7-7s on day 14.

In all of sumo history, not even once? That is remarkable. Though at least there are some earlier examples with those day 14s, which is really the crux of my query: How often do Ozeki meet to deny each other a winning record?

Edit: No, wait. They couldn't have met 7-7 on day 14, could they? That's impossible.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Eikokurai

[Seiyashi]

1 minute ago, Eikokurai said:

In all of sumo history, not even once? That is remarkable. 

Apparently. I edited my comment above, but apparently an ozeki has only been in a Darwin match on senshuraku with another rikishi, regardless of rank, thrice in sumo history:

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&day=15&hth=1&rank1=O&wins1=7&winsopt1=1&wins2=7&winsopt2=1.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Eikokurai]

3 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Apparently. I edited my comment above, but apparently an ozeki has only been in a Darwin match on senshuraku with another rikishi, regardless of rank, thrice in sumo history:

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&day=15&hth=1&rank1=O&wins1=7&winsopt1=1&wins2=7&winsopt2=1.

Wow. This is what I love about sumo stats. The discovery of hidden trivia never ends.

My next query is how often it's been possible to pair up two 7-7 Ozeki but the banzuke makers didn't do it for whatever reason, e.g. not wanting to guarantee making an Ozeki kadoban or worse.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Eikokurai

[Jakusotsu]

8 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

My next query is how often it's been possible to pair up two 7-7 Ozeki but the banzuke makers didn't do it for whatever reason, e.g. not wanting to guarantee making an Ozeki kadoban or worse.

Easy: never. The only reason why two 7-7 Ozeki won't meet on senshuraku is their rest of the schedule (i.e. having met before).

[Eikokurai]

14 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Easy: never. The only reason why two 7-7 Ozeki won't meet on senshuraku is their rest of the schedule (i.e. having met before).

Not sure I follow. If they haven't met before, then isn't it possible for them to meet on day 15? Intra-Ozeki bouts are pretty standard on senshuraku.

Edit: Oh, I get what you mean. Sorry, bit slow to parse that.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Eikokurai

[Seiyashi]

25 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Wow. This is what I love about sumo stats. The discovery of hidden trivia never ends.

My next query is how often it's been possible to pair up two 7-7 Ozeki but the banzuke makers didn't do it for whatever reason, e.g. not wanting to guarantee making an Ozeki kadoban or worse.

Search for basho with at least 2 ozeki on 7 wins before the senshuraku bout. Amazingly, there's been only 5 cases of this.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&group_expand=on&group_by=basho&having=2&day=15&rank1=O&wins1=7&winsopt1=1

Checking each of their schedules:

• HIT: Both O3EHD Tochihikari and O2EHD Sadanoyama in Kyushu 1963 (i.e. 7-7 going into senshuraku, could be matched together, but were not). Funnily enough, with 5 ozeki on that banzuke and three haridashi, you'd think the torikumi makers wouldn't care about a kadoban ozeki (but this might have predated the kadoban system so I'm not sure)
• MISS: Not O2E Takanonami and O1W Chiyotaikai in Haru 2000 (Takatoriki's makujiri yusho), although this is the closest example: they were matched up on day 14 where Takanonami (6-7) beat Chiyotaikai (7-6) to leave them both on 7-7 heading into the final day. Takanonami subsequently lost to Dejima on senshuraku for 7-8 to go kadoban, while Chiyotaikai beat Musashimaru to go 8-7.
• MISS: Not O2W Kaio and O1E Chiyotaikai in Haru 2007, where they met on day 11.
• MISS: Not O3E Chiyotaikai and O2W Kotomitsuki in Natsu 2009, where they met on day 13.
• MISS: Also not O2E Goeido and O2W Terunofuji in Nagoya 2016, where they met on day 8.

Of all these examples, the only times the ozeki were matched in exact rank were the last example of Goeido and Terunofuji. Their schedules also looked really wonky for meeting so early, at least compared to the other examples where the slate gradually increases in difficulty over the second week.

To answer your question, only once in history has it happened, but the datedness of the example means that effectively, there's been no modern possibility of your stated scenario happening.

12 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

16 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Easy: never. The only reason why two 7-7 Ozeki won't meet on senshuraku is their rest of the schedule (i.e. having met before).

Not sure I follow. If they haven't met before, then isn't it possible for them to meet on day 15? Intra-Ozeki bouts are pretty standard on senshuraku.

Edit: Oh, I get what you mean. Sorry, bit slow to parse that.

Also didn't initially get this, but I assume Jakusotsu means "never" as in it's never had the opportunity to happen because it would mean fighting the same opponent twice. Arguably borne out by the data, although I still don't see how prior to the search it was a definite answer that the banzuke makers had avoided a 7-7 ozeki matchup on senshuraku even if they could have.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Kintamayama]

 

2 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Did Mbovo's stream go down for everyone?

Gone for good for now.

[Jakusotsu]

1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

Arguably borne out by the data, although I still don't see how prior to the search it was a definite answer that the banzuke makers had avoided a 7-7 ozeki matchup on senshuraku even if they could have.

Take into account that all sanyaku rikishi are pre-determined to meet each other unless same-heya rule or some weird yusho implications prevent, and that doesn't apply for two 7-7 Ozeki. In case they are scheduled for day 15 anyway, no force in the universe would be strong enough to prevent that, not even the NSK.

[Kotogouryuu]

As gingerly as Terunofuji walks outside the dohyo, he certainly moves nimbly enough inside it. He's probably being extra mindful of his knees all the time to minimize any risks. You can see in the replay that even though he was moving fast against Takayasu, all his steps were solid and stable, and didn't put his knees in awkward positions. It is kinda of a weak spot to him but still strong enough that even Takayasu wasn't able to capitalize.

 

[Shinobi Steve]

37 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

 

Gone for good for now.

The account was deleted. So, certainly looks like the ride is over. 

To whichever NSK rep is reading this, I will gladly pay you for access to streaming coverage in English.  

[Seiyashi]

8 minutes ago, Shinobi Steve said:

47 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Gone for good for now.

The account was deleted. So, certainly looks like the ride is over. 

To whichever NSK rep is reading this, I will gladly pay you for access to streaming coverage in English.  

And just before the last two bouts of the day too; some timing there. Bleargh.

To whichever NSK rep is reading this, that's at least two people.

Maybe we should change.org this...

[pricklypomegranate]

Sorry for my relative inactivity as of late - I have been serving an internship and am just trying to get into the rhythm of things. 

3 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

With his pedigree, Kitanofuji can get away with his grumpy takes. Mainoumi can't. 

Indeed. Mainoumi is my least favourite of all the commentators - I still love Kitanofuji because although he can be a little insensitive, I know it comes from a place of love for sumo. I am warming to Wakanohana too. Did you guys see Kakuryu on nakabi yesterday! I don't think he did half bad! He talked only when he felt like doing so - didn't feel the need to constantly fill in the space, and gave us some insight. I think he could be a great commentator in the future if he so wishes. 

3 hours ago, robnplunder said:

He has been improving steadily.  I feel things are coming together for him.  If he gains 10 lbs in the right places, who knows where he will end up.   

Indeed. He is no Asashoryu, but that doesn't mean he can't be a Yokozuna, or at least an Ozeki. I think the latter is reachable for him, especially with his uncle setting a fire under his chair. What makes me think that the Ozekis (other than Teru) are not gonna meet their 10 win threshold. I think Teru is gonna take this one - he's got a runaway lead and can't really see him blowing this like Takayasu due to lack of mental strength. 

Which means, of course, because Hakuho is forced to come back next basho, we might have a tsuna run on our hands. There could be a spoiler, or Hakuho can either retire in style, or Teru defeats him, take the mantle and become Yokozuna himself. I like the last two scenarios personally. Just when we thought sumo is going to be uninteresting, the kami always seem to find a way... 

[Gernobono]

32 minutes ago, Shinobi Steve said:

To whichever NSK rep is reading this, I will gladly pay you for access to streaming coverage in English. 

i would rather pay for coverage in japanese

don't speak that language but that is better than listening to most of the hosters at the english language-stream

 

maybe admins can split this discussion from this topic

 

[Eikokurai]

39 minutes ago, Shinobi Steve said:

The account was deleted. So, certainly looks like the ride is over. 

To whichever NSK rep is reading this, I will gladly pay you for access to streaming coverage in English.  

That's easily the most annoying thing: If they want to press their copyright claim, go for it, but why can't they make their content available themselves? This way it's like taking your ball and going home just so other kids can't play with it.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Eikokurai

[Asapedroryu]

Has Asashoryu be saying something the last 2 days?

[Morning]

Afaik, NHK has live coverage each day, at least for the upper division, just not on the free NHK World. You'd have to check who your local supplier for that service is. The NHK website should be helpful for that. 

https://nhkworldpremium.com/apply

Edited May 17, 2021 by Morning

[Gernobono]

31 minutes ago, Morning said:

Afaik, NHK has live coverage each day, at least for the upper division, just not on the free NHK World. You'd have to check who your local supplier for that service is. The NHK website should be helpful for that. 

https://nhkworldpremium.com/apply

jstv, which is nhkwp in europe is €50/month

[Kintamayama]

1 hour ago, Eikokurai said:

 This way it's like taking your ball and going home just so other kids can't play with it.

I hope they're not planning on taking my balls away too.. 

[Eikokurai]

49 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

I hope they're not planning on taking my balls away too.. 

You'd have to change your name to simply Yama, I guess.