Non-K-November basho 2020 Discussion (spoiler space)

[Hakuryuho]

Wow, great day today, lots of nice bouts.

Takakeisho looks borderline unbeatable.

[Dwale]

Think Ura was dealing with some nerves this basho; hopefully he's settled down now. 

Daieisho played it smart against the kaiju, kept him from getting a hold and waited for his chance. Was cheering Terunofuji, but credit where it's due.

Takakeisho enjoying another easy day at the office. Love the little dumpling man. 

Ichinojo showed some pretty good defense considering the position he was in, but Hoshoryu made sure he couldn't turn the tables. The kid is good.

[Ichimawashi]

New Kokugikan food special this week: sliced rump roast in a spicy broth with thick noodles: the RYUDON.

[Amamaniac]

11 hours ago, dada78641 said:

The NHK showed a list of kimarite rankings:

Obviously, no surprises as to which three made it to the top. Would be way more interesting to see a top 20.

Yubinhaad's regular "Kimarite Statistics" thread is a great reference tool for that.  

The purpose of the above graphic was to illustrate the shift in fighting style comparing last year (i.e., this slide) with 1980 when there were a lot more yorikiri and significantly fewer oshidashi and hatakikomi.  Apparently, we are currently in more of a pusher-thruster age.

Edited November 15, 2020 by Amamaniac

[Amamaniac]

The situation going into today's bouts was critical for Enho's immediate future.  That is to say, he was 0-7 and on the verge of a makekoshi demotion-worthy record.  Obviously, for him to win the next eight straight and get a KK was not in the cards.  But the main goal was to break the losing streak, and try to salvage what's left of his tournament.

A curious thing happened in the ring-entering ceremonies.  In Juryo, Ishiura wore a keshomawashi from one of the sets regularly used in Hakuho's ring-entering ceremony, and in Makuuchi, Enho wore the matching keshomawashi.  This was highly unusual since those aprons are ordinarily only worn when Hakuho is in a tournament and required to perform his dohyoiri.

It would appear (speculation on my part) that this was a move to boost Enho's chances of getting his first win of the tournament.  One can't help but think that Hakuho was behind it.  After all, he would have to give his permission for Enho to use a keshomawashi from his Yokozuna three-piece set.  And once that decision was made, it only made sense for Ishiura (a dream team regular from the same stable) to wear the matching ceremonial apron.

Sadly, the apparent tactic failed for Enho, and rookie Akua made short work of him.  

Edited November 15, 2020 by Amamaniac

[Morty]

2 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Daieishooooooooooo!

Of all the current active rikishi he is the one I would least like to meet in a real fight* - never gives up and always goes for the head. Terunofuji relies too much on brute strength and against someone like Daieisho who won't back down that isn't always going to work.

*(Apart from Hak of course).

[Eikokurai]

22 minutes ago, Morty said:

Of all the current active rikishi he is the one I would least like to meet in a real fight* - never gives up and always goes for the head. Terunofuji relies too much on brute strength and against someone like Daieisho who won't back down that isn't always going to work.

*(Apart from Hak of course).

Chiyonokuni is similar: a tenacious pugilist who isn’t shy about mashing your face with his palms over and over.

[Kintamayama]

Rikishi talk Knock a Bee:

Ura got his fifth win today, beating Chiyoootori and doing "regular" sumo by moving forward, no tricks. "I'm glad I was able to push today. I managed to get into that pretty well and unintentionally.. I guess i saw my chance and went for it. I'm glad I did not lose to a big opponent. I think the fact that by day 8 I have more wins than losses means that I have been gambarizing well. I'm worried if my body can last the 15 days but to this point I have been able to move well. The level in Juryo is high. I want to give it my all, no regrets!"

 

Daieishou, handing Terunofuji his first loss: "I knew I had no chance to win if he got my mawashi or got a good grip. I'm glad I managed to keep him at bay. If I can keep doing this kind of sumo I will be in a better place. It gave me a boost of confidence. I'd like to be able to attack by relentlessly moving forward!"

 

Mitakeumi, beating Tobizaru and showing total dominance with excellent sumo : "I think the last time we faced each other was in high school. This was the bout I was looking forward to the most this basho  I really enjoyed it. He is my classmate and we also started sumo together. Other than Hokutofuji, I don't face many of these.. I wasn't expecting him to come out slapping, but I was able to calmly handle it. The way he performed last basho was a great stimulus for me, being my classmate and all.. I'm still full of stamina. If I do sumo without pulling, I believe the wins will continue. I want to go about it with a good feeling!"

 

Takarafuji, one win behind the leaders halfway through the basho: "I managed to do my own sumo. My opponent (Kotoekou) likes the right hand grip as opposed to my favorite left hand grip so I wanted to get mine first. I hit hard and did the sumo I had imagined. It seems maybe I'm doing too well.." His two year old son has been an inspiration to him. "He watches my bouts on TV every day with my wife and when I win, he cheerfully shouts 'HE DID IT!!" He recognizes me. I feel he is growing up..So my goal is 8 'HE DID ITs' and then 10 'HE DID ITs'.." summed Takarafuji.

 

Retiring Takasago Oyakata was on TV today as the commentator. when ex-Asahouryuu's picture came on, he let loose. "This Yokozuna caused me a lot of problems.. He had no idea what it feels to be a Yokozuna. At times he listened, other times he taught. More than me bringing him up, he became a Yokozuna on his own, because he was simply very strong. He trained very well!"

 

Chiyonokuni, second straight loss, this time to Endou: "I wanted to get that left hand grip but I couldn't from the start. My opponent was stronger.."

 

Wakatakakage, beating Kiribayama, his first "real" win of the basho: "I want this to be a new start. I will be concentrating tomorrow as well.."

 

 Shimanoumi, still with only 1 loss: "I'm not thinking about anything. I can only face each bout at a time.'

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by Kintamayama

[Benihana]

Not an exceptional day of sumo, but many entertaining bouts with a spin and a beautiful upset.

[Amamaniac]

2 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Chiyonokuni is similar: a tenacious pugilist who isn’t shy about mashing your face with his palms over and over.

Correct me if I'm wrong (I often am), but I seem to recall hearing that Chiyonokuni also studied karate, which probably would come in handy in a "real fight". 

[lackmaker]

2 hours ago, Morty said:

Of all the current active rikishi he is the one I would least like to meet in a real fight* - never gives up and always goes for the head. Terunofuji relies too much on brute strength and against someone like Daieisho who won't back down that isn't always going to work.

*(Apart from Hak of course).

So who in the top division would you most like to get in a real fight with if you had to fight someone?

[Benihana]

9 minutes ago, lackmaker said:

So who in the top division would you most like to get in a real fight with if you had to fight someone?

Does bribing the Georgian with red wine and letting him fight for you count?

[pricklypomegranate]

5 hours ago, Dwale said:

Daieisho played it smart against the kaiju, kept him from getting a hold and waited for his chance. Was cheering Terunofuji, but credit where it's due.

Takakeisho enjoying another easy day at the office. Love the little dumpling man. 

3 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

The situation going into today's bouts was critical for Enho's immediate future.  That is to say, he was 0-7 and on the verge of a makekoshi demotion-worthy record.  Obviously, for him to win the next eight straight and get a KK was not in the cards.  But the main goal was to break the losing streak, and try to salvage what's left of his tournament.

A curious thing happened in the ring-entering ceremonies.  In Juryo, Ishiura wore a keshomawashi from one of the sets regularly used in Hakuho's ring-entering ceremony, and in Makuuchi, Enho wore the matching keshomawashi.  This was highly unusual since those aprons are ordinarily only worn when Hakuho is in a tournament and required to perform his dohyoiri.

It would appear (speculation on my part) that this was a move to boast Enho's chances of getting his first win of the tournament.  One can't help but think that Hakuho was behind it.  After all, he would have to give his permission for Enho to use a keshomawashi from his Yokozuna three-piece set.  And once that decision was made, it only made sense for Ishiura (a dream team regular from the same stable) to wear the matching ceremonial apron.

Sadly, the apparent tactic failed for Enho, and rookie Akua made short work of him.  

I am so very glad that Daieisho is finally putting his name on the map. He might not have a diverse set of skills, but he really has a tenacity that I have come to love and I will definitely pay more attention on him next basho. His defense against Terunofuji's attempts was very masterful. 

All hail the man who is the size (and shape) of a planet! Let's go for a Takakeisho zensho yusho! That would absolutely be world-shattering. With the Yokozunas and Ozekis out of the race, I have felt somewhat more comfortable to sit through all the matches. But if Takakeisho wins zensho for this, January would be crazy. I don't think I could watch the basho without hiding under a blanket 

As much as I would like to think that Enho's bad performance is just an Onosho fluke, his decline has stretched for most of the year and it really kills me as a fan to see him in such a state. I am glad that Hakuho deeply cares for his deshi enough to do something unorthodox (perhaps an indication of his future heya management style) and demonstrate his support subtly from a distance and not berate Enho endlessly for a poor string of performances. But all the care and concern in the world cannot save careers. I hope the Miyagino gang can regroup and show us the lustre that they used to have. 

If Enho does go down to Juryo, it's not the end of the world because I think he has a good chance of climbing back up. And it's not the end of the pixie sumo trend either, as Ishiura is likely to come back up and Midorifuji will replace his spot on the banzuke (though not in my heart ). He is definitely my dream Juryo winner (or Jokoryu). 

In other news, Hokuseiho won his KK today, but his sumo didn't seem very convincing - he had to use his strength and height to beat his technically-superior aite. Perhaps a sign of things to come... Takeoka also looking very strong and there was an excellent almost 5 minute bout in Sandanme today, but I can't remember the names. 

Edited November 15, 2020 by pricklypomegranate

[Morty]

18 minutes ago, lackmaker said:

So who in the top division would you most like to get in a real fight with if you had to fight someone?

None of them. I'm not insane. I was just trying to say (possibly lost in translation) that Daieisho seems more up for the fight than many of the others. There are a lot of rikishi who come across as really nice guys who don't want to hurt their opponents. But Daieisho goes all out. He has that "scary" vibe that many of the others don't. This isn't intended as an insult (it's a combat sport)

[Philioyamfugi]

Diaeisho always has been the Ozeki killer and can beet anybody on a given day. His straight forward tenacious sumo is always exciting. Kagayaki is holding it together, his footwork is improving. He survived a couple turns so far which always would normally send him to the clay. Akiseyama's foot work is always very good and wins another tough match. 

[Yamanashi]

1 hour ago, lackmaker said:

So who in the top division would you most like to get in a real fight with if you had to fight someone?

If I could use a forklift and move to the side, Kaisei for sure.

[Amamaniac]

7 hours ago, Dwale said:

Ichinojo showed some pretty good defense considering the position he was in, but Hoshoryu made sure he couldn't turn the tables. The kid is good.

Another impressive thing is that Hoshoryu (67 kgs lighter) has beaten the Mongolian Monster twice in a row!  He is living proof that technique trumps weight.

Edited November 15, 2020 by Amamaniac

[Amamaniac]

Just a couple of musical observations:

When Chiyomaru spun around to escape Shimanoumi's pressing offence today, for some reason the Benny Hill theme song started playing in my head.  Gotta love Chiyomaru.  He is pretty entertaining and apparently quite nimble for a big man.

And am I the only one?  Probably.  But watching the bouts (especially in the Juryo Division when the stands are less full and because of all the Corona restrictions), each time a wrestler slaps his mawashi, it really resonates and my brain drifts into "Come Together" by the Beatles.

 

 

[Akinomaki]

4 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Retiring Takasago Oyakata was on TV today as the commentator. when ex-Asahouryuu's picture came on, he let loose. "This Yokozuna caused me a lot of problems.. He had no idea what it feels to be a Yokozuna. At times he listened, other times he taught. More than me bringing him up, he became a Yokozuna on his own, because he was simply very strong. He trained very well!"

 Sanspo was distorting what Takasago said, leaving out the bit from the NHK announcer to which it was a reply, thus creating a false point of view: He himself was no yokozuna and thus did not know the feeling of being a yokozuna, hearing and getting taught about it.

Takasago this time did not complain about Asashoryu as much as Sanspo tried to convey.

Edited November 15, 2020 by Akinomaki

[Tsubame]

11 hours ago, robnplunder said:

16 hours ago, Benevolance said:

I know that Takakeisho and Mitakeumi and Shodai and Asanoyama are going to be our current crop of ozeki/yokozuna for the foreseeable future but, man, I really can't wait until the next guys get here. 

You forgot Terunofuji on the list.

I am curious... Am I the only one NOT seeing Terunofuji returning to ozeki?

He is now in a (banzuke) position, where he has to fight the best sumotori on a regular basis. And his fightig style relys heavily on strength and force. I cannot see his body maintaining top performance over three bashos for 33 wins or even more.

Is he someone to recon with for a yusho? Definitely, yes. But returning to ozeki-hood? No. I just cannot see this. 

[Gurowake]

18 hours ago, dada78641 said:

 

What I find most surprising is....the "り" is completely connected, while the "き" is not, the opposite of how they are shown on, say, Wikipedia and thus how they show up to me in the post since I pasted them from there and it presumably copied the font.  I'm always surprised at seeing fonts with a disconnected "き" or "そ" since the Wikipedia canonical forms have connections (though it does show the alternate versions), while clearly if there are disconnected forms at some point they presumably were always written disconnected and as the cursive style of hiragana developed they became connected more often than not.  I'm not sure how "り" is the complete opposite, being disconnected in Wikipedia's canonical form but much more likely to be written connected in my experience (or at least was written connected in a program that I used quite a lot to study, in which "き" and "そ" were also connected).

And "ranking" written in katakana?  WTF?  It always mystifies me when they use an English word like that when there absolutely must be some perfectly reasonable Japanese word not directly borrowed from English.

Edited November 15, 2020 by Gurowake

[lackmaker]

1 hour ago, Yamanashi said:

If I could use a forklift and move to the side, Kaisei for sure.

And he's the least likely to use excessive unnecessary force and care most about not injuring you.

[Seiyashi]

6 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

What I find most surprising is....the "り" is completely connected, while the "き" is not, the opposite of how they are shown on, say, Wikipedia and thus how they show up to me in the post since I pasted them from there and it presumably copied the font.  I'm always surprised at seeing fonts with a disconnected "き" or "そ" since the Wikipedia canonical forms have connections (though it does show the alternate versions), while clearly if there are disconnected forms at some point they presumably were always written disconnected and as the cursive style of hiragana developed they became connected more often than not.  I'm not sure how "り" is the complete opposite, being disconnected in Wikipedia's canonical form but much more likely to be written connected in my experience (or at least was written connected in a program that I used quite a lot to study, in which "き" and "そ" were also connected).

And "ranking" written in katakana?  WTF?

A lot of it depends on the font, to be honest. More calligraphic forms will have the ri connected and the ki disconnected, while the more mechanical ones will be the other way round. That said, Wikipedia also has the ri connected: , and a disconnected ri runs the risk of katakana confusion if taken out of context.

Rankings, well, if they chose to go with the loanword then it's natural to write it in katakana. Besides, the loanword seems to be accepted for things like music top of the charts, so it's not a leap to see it applied here.

[code_number3]

12 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

And "ranking" written in katakana?  WTF?  It always mystifies me when they use an English word like that when there absolutely must be some perfectly reasonable Japanese word not directly borrowed from English.

Yeah, this is happening

 

[Gurowake]

2 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Besides, the loanword seems to be accepted for things like music top of the charts, so it's not a leap to see it applied here. 

I totally understand that it's become accepted to use in general, but it really bugs me because that suggests that there simply were never rankings of anything until English became a major influence.  That seems....unlikely.