September (Aki) Basho- offical thread (yay..)

[RabidJohn]

Hearty congratulation to Shodai. A very well-deserved yusho. I thought for a moment Tobizaru might have got him, but as I said yesterday, Shodai has learned patience and the ability to recover from setbacks. I hope he gets the nod for promotion.

Hearty congratulations to Tobizaru, too. That was a hell of a makuuchi debut.

So, neither incumbent ozeki is starting a tsuna run, but both turned in ozeki numbers and Takakeisho's sole jun-yusho is not to be sniffed at.

Mitakeumi looked abysmal against the injured Kiribayama, but what do you expect? Mitakeumi is extremely predictable: any time there's a hint of talk about ozeki promotion he firmly shuts it up by putting himself back to square one. My guess is he doesn't actually want to be ozeki. I used to see a similar thing in the coal mining industry: senior supervisors who had the qualifications and experience but absolutely refused to even apply for management jobs because they didn't want the extra responsibility and demands on their time.

Happy to see Hoshoryu scrape a senshuraku KK. Dude's got a lot to learn and some bulk to build, but he's got potential.

Bout of the day for me, though, was another senshuraku KK decider: Kotoeko-Takarafuji. Stunning win for the little guy.

[Eikokurai]

I’m just catching up on the bouts I missed now. Ikioi-Shohozan just looked like a veterans bout from a jungyo. Very sad. And what was that flop at the end by Ikioi? Did he think he was playing football?

[Kintamayama]

On 18/09/2020 at 18:03, Kintamayama said:

My turn. The yusho will be a 13 win minimum yusho. Dont know who. If Shoudai gets a 13-2 yusho or a 14-1 playoff loss he will be promoted to Ozeki without question. Takakeishou will tire out in the second half. 11 wins maybe. Terunofuji 12-13. Ounoshou 10 max. Mitakeumi 12-13..Asanoyama 11-12. Kotoshouhou Jun yusho

 

Steak. 

Well, I got some right. The rest I missed by a hair, except Mitakeumi. Kyujos don't count. This was after day 6 , so give me some credit..

Edited September 27, 2020 by Kintamayama

[Thorbjarn]

41 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

[...] 

Mitakeumi looked abysmal against the injured Kiribayama, but what do you expect? Mitakeumi is extremely predictable: any time there's a hint of talk about ozeki promotion he firmly shuts it up by putting himself back to square one. My guess is he doesn't actually want to be ozeki. I used to see a similar thing in the coal mining industry: senior supervisors who had the qualifications and experience but absolutely refused to even apply for management jobs because they didn't want the extra responsibility and demands on their time.

You might be onto something here, this tends to happen in sport. I had a co-worker at one of my Jobs years back who also coached the Under 19 team of a local football Club (round ball football, not the handegg version).

The senior squad had blown numerous near-promotions to higher (professional) divisions through inexplicable collapses of form in prior years. Said co-worker was pretty adamant to clarify that the team tried to get the best possible result without getting promoted, because most were not cut out for higher divisions and that way they roughly know they would keep the team together and had secured, a certain paycheque. 

Of course, Sumo is quite different in many regards, but I can totally see some Rikishi being content with a certain level they feel sure about maintaining instead of overextending themselves to a level they aren't sure about. 

[Tigerboy1966]

3 hours ago, themistyseas said:

Not taking anything away from his two yusho (I was there for the last one), but how many more future Ozeki will pass him by?

The man he lost to today could be the next one to leapfrog him.

[Amamaniac]

Amidst all the feel good stories, I would like to give a little praise to Enho.  He really struggled in the first half of this tournament, but in the second half he registered a 5-3 record, which I like to view as a mini KK, even though in the grand scheme of things, he finished with an MK...

For whatever reason, he found his mojo again after day 8, and ended the tournament with two straight wins against significantly-higher-ranked opponents (Terutsuyoshi and Myogiryu, at M3), which demonstrates that he actually does still belong in the Top Division.  It's gotta be tough being the lightest Makuuchi guy inside the curtain, and the 4kg he dropped prior to Aki were sorely missed.  But the little guy has a work ethic I admire, he doesn't seem to let his setbacks get to him, and he always gives his all.

I think it is easy to say that the Top Division guys have figured him out.  That might be true in certain cases, but Enho still has the ability to surprise, and when he manages to use his quickness to get inside, he is pretty darn effective.  Just ask Myogiryu. 

[Ichimawashi]

2 hours ago, Kashunowaka said:

Odd choice of music when the cup is presented: Händels' music from the oratorio Judas Maccabeus, more known with the text "Tochter Zion, freue dich" (Daughter Zion, rejoice). I guess they just wanted a nice tune which everyone knows. Do they always play that?

Wikipedia says the Handel version is titled “See, The Conqu’ring Hero Comes” which seems rather appropriate for the occasion.

[Seiyashi]

4 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Amidst all the feel good stories, I would like to give a little praise to Enho.  He really struggled in the first half of this tournament, but in the second half he registered a 5-3 record, which I like to view as a mini KK, even though in the grand scheme of things, he finished with an MK...

For whatever reason, he found his mojo again after day 8, and ended the tournament with two straight wins against significantly-higher-ranked opponents (Terutsuyoshi and Myogiryu, at M3), which demonstrates that he actually does still belong in the Top Division.  It's gotta be tough being the lightest Makuuchi guy inside the curtain, and the 4kg he dropped prior to Aki were sorely missed.  But the little guy has a work ethic I admire, he doesn't seem to let his setbacks get to him, and he always gives his all.

I think it is easy to say that the Top Division guys have figured him out.  That might be true in certain cases, but Enho still has the ability to surprise, and when he manages to use his quickness to get inside, he is pretty darn effective.  Just ask Myogiryu. 

He switched back to his old sumo. The pop tachiai and beltwork came back, and that certainly took Myogiryu and Terutsuyoshi for a ride. Someone probably should have told him earlier that the tournament after losing 4 kilos from an already relatively insubstantial 96 isn't the best one to suddenly try using deashi to win. I hope common sense prevails and this basho is the end of that experiment; if it is, and when Hakuho and Ishiura come back, we should be seeing a 9-6 from him from the double-digit maegashira ranks at least.

[Amamaniac]

Did anyone see the photobomber during Shodai's awards ceremony?  There was a husky guy in the masuseki holding a large sheet with the shikona Aoikiyama (i.e., the ring name of current ringside judge Edagawa oyakata).  Not sure what that was all about.  Frankly, I found it to be in rather poor taste, since this was Shodai's big moment, and those watching the ceremony should have been focusing on his new-found glory...

Edited September 27, 2020 by Amamaniac

[Kaninoyama]

I mentioned it back in January, but I attended a day at this year's Hatsu Basho (pre-corona era), and right as we filed out of the Kokugikan, who was right there making his way to a waiting taxi but Shodai himself. He had won that day and was in the thick of the yusho hunt at that point.

Two things stand out about the moment.

1: Standing right next to him, he was truly massive.

2: He was mobbed by fans and I'm sure tired and hungry, yet he patiently stopped for every single photo and autograph request, of which there were dozens. 

Very happy for the man. 

 

[code_number3]

14 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Did anyone see the photoboomher during Shodai's awards ceremony?  There was a husky guy in the masuseki holding a large sheet with the shikona Aoikiyama (i.e., the ring name of current ringside judge Edagawa oyakata).  Not sure what that was all about.  Frankly, I found it to be in rather poor taste, since this was Shodai's big moment, and those watching the ceremony should have been focusing on his new-found glory...

I saw this guy also changed the towel into Shodai’s name.

[Amamaniac]

15 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

He switched back to his old sumo.

How exactly does that fit in with the "everyone has Enho figured out"?  I'm assuming people (maybe not you) were implying that the Top Division guys had become accustomed to Enho's "old sumo", and knew how to deal with it.  Don't get me wrong, I see some truth in that argument.  I just wanted to point out that Enho can and will continue to surprise people. 

[Seiyashi]

4 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

How exactly does that fit in with the "everyone has Enho figured out"?  I'm assuming people (maybe not you) were implying that the Top Division guys had become accustomed to Enho's "old sumo", and knew how to deal with it.  Don't get me wrong, I see some truth in that argument.  I just wanted to point out that Enho can and will continue to surprise people. 

I'm no expert, but watching his sumo for the first half, Enho made it really easy for people to crush him out by basically just running into them. Hell, the high water mark of this would have been his koshikudake loss to Kotoshogiku, where he basically couldn't even hold up Giku's weight. That indicates either an injury or just an incapability of doing oshi-zumo, which doesn't go well with the "figuring out" theory. Then he goes back to his old sumo, and pulls three wins out of the bag, including some cute standoff handclapping against Myogiryu.

I don't think Enho has quite yet been figured out - these 9 losses doesn't mean his sumo has reached the limit. I'll agree that his sumo has been figured out when you see people develop specific strategies to counter his belt holds - like kimedashi, kotenage, or kubinage - but losing to -taoshis doesn't feel like being figured out to me, it just feels like fighting a battle from a position of inferiority.

Edited September 27, 2020 by Seiyashi

[Amamaniac]

5 minutes ago, code_number3 said:

I saw this guy also changed the towel into Shodai’s name.

Are you sure?

I tried looking for him after the first two trophy presentations (following the Prime Minister's Cup), and he seemed to have left the masuseki that he had occupied.  I assumed he didn't want to push his luck any further.

The guy I saw was rather distinctive in that he was wearing white-framed glasses up on his forehead.  And even if he did switch to a Shodai towel, I'm pretty sure it was nowhere near as big as the Aoikiyama bedsheet!  LOL

[code_number3]

5 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

I'm pretty sure it was nowhere near as big as the Aoikiyama bedsheet!  LOL

SO DESU NE!!! 

[Gernobono]

15 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

 I just wanted to point out that Enho can and will continue to surprise people

I hope he will not surprise me more than 6 times a basho .   

Edited September 27, 2020 by Gernobono

[Amamaniac]

5 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

I'm no expert, but watching his sumo for the first half, Enho made it really easy for people to crush him out by basically just running into them. Hell, the high water mark of this would have been his koshikudake loss to Kotoshogiku, where he basically couldn't even hold up Giku's weight. That indicates either an injury or just an incapability of doing oshi-zumo, which doesn't go well with the "figuring out" theory. Then he goes back to his old sumo, and pulls three wins out of the bag, including some cute standoff handclapping against Myogiryu.

I'm absolutely with you.  As an Enho fan, I am simply trying to defend the brave young man that dares to mix it up with literally giants.  When he took on Ichinojo, he was in essence taking on two men his size.  I couldn't help envision Ichinojo splitting into two opponents (both halves heavier than Enho, btw) and attacking a hapless Enho simultaneously.  But Enho proved that he could shock and awe even the biggest man in the Makuuchi ring.

As for Enho's poor record in the first half, I brought up the injury (back pain) issue earlier in this thread when many critics were suggesting that Enho was all figured out. I'd like to think that he will never be completely figured out.  Anyway, the evidence of acupuncture treatment disappeared in the second half, and so being pain free may well have allowed Enho to resume his old (exciting) sumo.

[Amamaniac]

4 minutes ago, Gernobono said:

20 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

 I just wanted to point out that Enho can and will continue to surprise people

I hope he will not surprise me more than 6 times a basho .   

I certainly hope he will surprise me with incredible wins more than 8 times a basho.  After all, I am happier when Enho gets a kachikoshi. 

[Akinomaki]

28 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

I don't think Enho has quite yet been figured out - these 9 losses doesn't mean his sumo has reached the limit. I'll agree that his sumo has been figured out when you see people develop specific strategies to counter his belt holds - like kimedashi, kotenage, or kubinage - but losing to -taoshis doesn't feel like being figured out to me, it just feels like fighting a battle from a position of inferiority.

You can't figure out a bag of tricks unless it is nearly empty. Enho used to do a sumo that requires enormous energy, and as long as he had it, he was successful. This basho he had run out of it, weight loss - power loss, and no crowd support in these times to charge him. If he finds a way to get out of the general Corona depression, he will get a kachi-koshi again, but I don't see that yet. Next basho may just be as hard for him to gather wins.

[Seregost]

Enho's best chance is always to dive under the opponent's arms, and grab the mawashi. He's fast and technically very skillfull, and uses his short height to achieve that and then do some differente nages. The problem comes when opponents save the Covid distance, and wait for him. Then he doesn't usually have any room to dive, and gets crushed with oshi style. Some meetings with Kagayaki are a good example.

[Seiyashi]

I'm more curious to know - what do you think is the effect, if any, of Hakuho's prolonged convalescence this time round on Enho's performance? It feels like he is their primary coach and training partner, and with him laid up and at home resting, I don't think his deshi see very much of him.

[ryafuji]

5 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Which is, forgive my bluntness, absolutely nuts. Terunofuji was promoted with way less. Back-to-back yusho is hard enough. Zensho yusho is hard enough. Back-to-back zensho yusho is one of the hardest things to achieve in sumo. This century only three men have managed it: Asashoryu, Hakuho and Harumafuji. The latter earned Yokozuna promotion after doing it. There is zero chance a Sekiwake would be denied Ozeki for doing the same. It would make a mockery of the whole ranking system if it’s harder to become an Ozeki than a Yokozuna. They wouldn’t even wait for the 9-6; that Sekiwake would be promoted immediately.

I think the point you're missing is that the third tournament in an ozeki run is supposed to the culmination of three very good performances. A 9-6 would be a collapse, a choke. It would negate the two previous performances. Whether someone  would be promoted before with the 15-15 is a separate question - they may well do - but I think a 9-6 in any circumstances would be a back to square one situation.

[Amamaniac]

Did Shodai get the Ozeki nod yet?  How long does the process take.  IIRC there are usually plenty of hints coming out of the meeting room.

The suspense is killing me.

[Seiyashi]

5 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Did Shodai get the Ozeki nod yet?  How long does the process take.  IIRC there are usually plenty of hints coming out of the meeting room.

The suspense is killing me.

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20200927/k10012637331000.html

Shimpanbu recommending to the board that an extraordinary meeting be convened on the 30th, and that is when it will be officially confirmed.

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by Seiyashi

[Tigerboy1966]

Guilty pleasure of the the day was Chiyoshoma vs Nishikifuji in juryo. Chiyoshoma eschewed normal tactics and just smacked the kid around the head over and over again until he got dizzy enough to throw. Nasty, cynical, brutal sumo from a man whose hobbies allegedly include biting the heads off kittens. I enjoyed it enormously.