Rikishi younger than everyone above them on the banzuke

[Gurowake]

Haru 2022:

Y1e	Terunofuji	29.11.1991
O1w	Takakeisho	05.08.1996
K1w	Hoshoryu	22.05.1999
M14e	Kotoshoho	26.08.1999
J1e	Oho	14.02.2000
J10e	Kitanowaka	12.11.2000
J12w	Atamifuji	03.09.2002
Ms18w	Otsuji	06.10.2003
Sd19w	Daihisho	08.11.2003
Sd52e	Hokutoiwa	28.11.2003
Sd69w	Nishida	24.10.2004
Sd75e	Shunrai	10.04.2005
Jd5e	Mizuno	02.12.2005
Jd18w	Takashoki	09.12.2005
Jd91w	Kyokutaiga	28.02.2006

Not much in changes:

Mizuno passes Takashoki, reversing the movement from the previous basho. 

Kotoshoho passes Oho, now having switched 4 basho in a row.

[Reonito]

A lot of promise for numbers 3-7.

[Yarimotsu]

I assume you're making the list with a simple query on sumodb. Would it be just as easy to make a "rikishi older than everyone above them on the banzuke" list? Of course, that list would change much less often.

[Gurowake]

8 hours ago, Yarimotsu said:

I assume you're making the list with a simple query on sumodb. Would it be just as easy to make a "rikishi older than everyone above them on the banzuke" list? Of course, that list would change much less often.

Yes, but I'm not sure why that would be interesting.  At least, it wouldn't to me.  This gets updated at the same time as the other "Prospects to keep an eye on", as my interest is in who is coming up the ranks fast for their age.  I'm not interested in finding out who is next to retire or whatever you think you'll get from what you suggested.

[Chartorenji]

2 hours ago, Gurowake said:

Yes, but I'm not sure why that would be interesting.  At least, it wouldn't to me.  This gets updated at the same time as the other "Prospects to keep an eye on", as my interest is in who is coming up the ranks fast for their age.  I'm not interested in finding out who is next to retire or whatever you think you'll get from what you suggested.

curious how you did this, as when I was messing around I couldn't really find how to sort by age/what you did.

[Gurowake]

8 minutes ago, Chartorenji said:

curious how you did this, as when I was messing around I couldn't really find how to sort by age/what you did.

On the banzuke page, you can have it display birth dates.  To make exporting easier, I also do one-column and simple style.  I copy the entire banzuke to Excel, extract the dates from the text the database gives as the date, then use a formula that checks that date against all the dates of those higher on the list and returns true when it finds someone who qualifies.  I then filter the list for just where that formula is true.  Once it's set up, I only need to copy in the list of rikishi each basho to update it.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Gurowake

[Yarimotsu]

8 hours ago, Gurowake said:

Yes, but I'm not sure why that would be interesting.  At least, it wouldn't to me.  This gets updated at the same time as the other "Prospects to keep an eye on", as my interest is in who is coming up the ranks fast for their age.  I'm not interested in finding out who is next to retire or whatever you think you'll get from what you suggested.

It would interest me because it says "these are the rikishi still holding on to ranks despite their age". So it's really just about seeing whose performance is most impressive despite their age, same as your concept, except at the other end of the life-cycle of a rikishi. Sure, we're not going to see up-and-coming prospects, presumably we're going to see soon-to-fall mainstays. Personally I'd like to see that list once or twice a year, and now that you've shared your process I might just do that myself!

Thanks!

[Yamanashi]

1 hour ago, Yarimotsu said:

It would interest me because it says "these are the rikishi still holding on to ranks despite their age". So it's really just about seeing whose performance is most impressive despite their age, same as your concept, except at the other end of the life-cycle of a rikishi. Sure, we're not going to see up-and-coming prospects, presumably we're going to see soon-to-fall mainstays. Personally I'd like to see that list once or twice a year, and now that you've shared your process I might just do that myself!

Thanks!

O1e Shodai 05.11.1991

M2w Tamawashi 16.11.1984

J6w Shohozan 09.02.1984

Ms25e Aozora 26.08.1983

Sd23w Asatenmai 23.05.1981

Sd27w Dairaido 17.04.1980

Sd57w Shoketsu 05.09.1976

(I think I did this right!)

Edited March 15, 2022 by Yamanashi

[Reonito]

18 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

O1e Shodai 05.11.1991

I would not have guessed Shodai is older than Terunofuji, even if only by a couple of weeks!

[Yarimotsu]

20 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

O1e Shodai 05.11.1991

M2w Tamawashi 16.11.1984

J6w Shohozan 09.02.1984

Ms25e Aozora 26.08.1983

Sd23w Asatenmai 23.05.1981

Sd27w Dairaido 17.04.1980

Sd57w Shoketsu 05.09.1976

(I think I did this right!)

Looks correct to me, although I would definitely include the yokozuna at the top. It's kind of amazing to look at someone like Terunofuji and think that Tamawashi is 7 years older and still hasn't missed a bout and looks in generally good form. Then to see how quickly the next lot drops off from Tamawashi and Shohozan in terms of rank, despite being just a few years older.

[Yamanashi]

13 minutes ago, Yarimotsu said:

Looks correct to me, although I would definitely include the yokozuna at the top. It's kind of amazing to look at someone like Terunofuji and think that Tamawashi is 7 years older and still hasn't missed a bout and looks in generally good form. Then to see how quickly the next lot drops off from Tamawashi and Shohozan in terms of rank, despite being just a few years older.

Sure, why not, although AKSHULLY who above him is he older than?

Oh, and thanks to @Gurowake for the algorithm.

[Yamanashi]

19 minutes ago, Reonito said:

I would not have guessed Shodai is older than Terunofuji, even if only by a couple of weeks!

He's not older than the hills, but he is older than the mountain.

[Yamanashi]

9 hours ago, Yarimotsu said:

Then to see how quickly the next lot drops off from Tamawashi and Shohozan in terms of rank, despite being just a few years older.

That can be a little misleading, and maybe speaks to @Gurowake's comment.  They have that rank difference now, but Shohozan entered Ozumo in 2006, two years after Tamawashi, and peaked at Komosubi in 2013 when Tamawashi was still fighting to stay out of Juryo.  When Tamawashi made Komosubi in 2015, Shohozan was in the middle of a huge pendulum swing between upper Maegashira and upper Juryo (and back again).  They shared the Komosubi rank in July 2018, before Tamawashi returned to Sekiwake and Shohozan began his long slide to upper-Juryo.  So, at any time they would have had many different rank relationships -- but it doesn't matter, because as long as guys like Aminishiki (HD 1997) were active, they wouldn't show up on the list at all.

One strange advantage to being on this list: over the long haul you'll get replaced by some up-and-coming youngster, but not so often by an up-and-coming oldster.

[Asashosakari]

I think the comment was rather about the difference from Shohozan to the next guys, who are deep in the unsalaried ranks. Not that that's really a surprise. Most old rikishi are ranked far below where they were during their prime, so somebody in upper makushita would - in most cases - be somebody that was a steady sekitori at his best. Those guys don't tend to stick around for that long when the salary goes, so below juryo you'll often find (former) makushita journeymen making up such a list.

Impressive though that Aozora is still hanging on so high. He's at 71 tournaments in makushita now; as far as I can tell that's fourth all-time for guys who turned pro after university, behind Tochinoyama (86), Yanagawa (77), and Kaonishiki (74).

Edited March 15, 2022 by Asashosakari

[Gurowake]

11 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

Sure, why not, although AKSHULLY who above him is he older than?

Oh, and thanks to @Gurowake for the algorithm.

No one is above Terunofuji on the banzuke, so he is older than each of them.  If there were a list of "Rikishi who are more <X> than anyone above them on the banzuke", then the top person on the banzuke would automatically be on the list, regardless of what <X> is.  People that don't study mathematics generally have a problem with this, but the logic has to work that way.

[Sue]

Rikishi who are older than everyone below them on the banzuke:

Sd57w Shoketsu 05.09.1976

Jk6w Sawaisamu 07.02.1977

Jk14e Higohikari 27.01.1988

Jk14w Chiyotsurugi 18.06.2003

Edited March 15, 2022 by Sue

[Yamanashi]

5 hours ago, Gurowake said:

No one is above Terunofuji on the banzuke, so he is older than each of them.  If there were a list of "Rikishi who are more <X> than anyone above them on the banzuke", then the top person on the banzuke would automatically be on the list, regardless of what <X> is.  People that don't study mathematics generally have a problem with this, but the logic has to work that way.

Uh, "no one" is above him on the banzuke; therefore, he is older than "no one"; therefore ...

Sorry, I only minored in Math.

[Yamanashi]

The "older than ... " list for 2022 may be a bit of an anomaly because of the many retirements of sekitori and low-rankers over the last two years.  I ran the same study for Haru 2020:

(Y1e Hakuho 11.03.1985)

M7w Tamawashi 16.11.1984

M8e Shohozan 09.02.1984

M13e Kotoshogiku 30.01.1984

Ms1e Sokokurai 09.01.1984

Ms2e Toyonoshima 29.06.1983

Ms31e Sagatsukasa 21.12.1981

Sd1e Asatenmai 23.05.1981

Sd33e Kaonishiki 14.09.1978

Sd38w Shoketsu 05.09.1976

Jd99w Hanakaze 28.05.1970

(Above Hanakaze on that banzuke is Jd99e Takemaru, born 31 years later in 2001)

Edited March 16, 2022 by Yamanashi
'cause Reonito actually reads my posts (unlike me).

[Reonito]

4 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

M7w Tamawashi 16.11.1884

He's even more impressive than I thought! 

[Yamanashi]

2 minutes ago, Reonito said:

He's even more impressive than I thought! 

Well, that would clear out anyone below him!

[Hoshotakamoto]

On 13/03/2022 at 11:32, Reonito said:

A lot of promise for numbers 3-7.

You're not feeling it for Otsuji? The kid knows how to get a 4-3.

[Reonito]

2 minutes ago, Hoshotakamoto said:

You're not feeling it for Otsuji? The kid knows how to get a 4-3.

I definitely have an eye on him, but I feel like getting through upper makushita is the acid test.

[Gurowake]

Natsu 2022:

Y1e Terunofuji 29.11.1991 O1e Mitakeumi 25.12.1992 O2w Takakeisho 05.08.1996 K1e Hoshoryu 22.05.1999 M9e Kotoshoho 26.08.1999 M14e Oho 14.02.2000 J5e Kitanowaka 12.11.2000 J12w Atamifuji 03.09.2002 Ms23e Otsuji 06.10.2003 Sd8w Daihisho 08.11.2003 Sd33e Miyata 04.02.2005 Sd60e Mogamizakura 03.07.2005 Jd8w Takashoki 09.12.2005 Jd60e Kyokutaiga 28.02.2006 Jk5w Oyamazakura 15.08.2006 Jk10e Takaarashi 28.12.2006

Changes:

2 new recruits appear at the bottom of the list.

Mizuno and Shunrai drop below Takashoki.  The first is a switch for 3 basho in a row.

Mogamizakura moves up past Nishida.

Miyata moves up past Hokutoiwa.

Then there's a bunch of no changes before Mitakeumi passes Takakeisho.

Note that Kotoshoho and Oho did NOT switch for the first time in 5 basho.

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Gurowake

[Yarimotsu]

Rikishi older than everyone above them on the banzuke, Natsu 2022:

Y1e

Terunofuji

29.11.1991

O1w

Shodai

05.11.1991

M1e

Takayasu

28.02.1990

M3w

Tamawashi

16.11.1984

J12e

Shohozan

09.02.1984

Ms41w

Aozora

26.08.1983

Sd12w

Asatenmai

23.05.1981

Sd31e

Gorikiyama

21.03.1979

Sd45w

Yoshiazuma

26.05.1977

Sd77e

Shoketsu

05.09.1976

Takayasu makes a jump to appear on this list, Gorikiyama surpasses Dairaido in the middle of Sandanme and Yoshiazuma surpasses Shoketsu, and excluding Asatenmai we see dropping ranks for our oldest rikishi.

I thought I'd better post it since I'd done the calculation - If I'm cluttering your thread tell me and I'll make a new one.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Yarimotsu

[Gurowake]

Nagoya 2022:

Y1e	Terunofuji	29.11.1991
O1e	Takakeisho	05.08.1996
K1e	Hoshoryu	22.05.1999
M11e	Kotoshoho	26.08.1999
M15w	Oho	14.02.2000
J6e	Atamifuji	03.09.2002
Ms18e	Otsuji	06.10.2003
Ms58e	Daihisho	08.11.2003
Sd20e	Setonoumi	11.06.2004
Sd25e	Ieshima	26.01.2005
Sd46w	Miyata	04.02.2005
Sd52e	Shunrai	10.04.2005
Sd62e	Takashoki	09.12.2005
Jd43e	Tanji	05.06.2006
Jd84w	Hayashiryu	04.07.2006
Jd85e	Rinko	04.07.2006
Jk1e	Oyamazakura	15.08.2006
Jk2e	Takaarashi	28.12.2006

Changes:

Takakeisho passes Mitakeumi

Kitanowaka moves down past Atamifuji

Setonoumi and Ieshima pass Miyata

Shunrai and Takashoki pass Mogamizakura

Tanji passes Kyokutaiga

Hayashiryu and Rinko (twins ranked right next to each other) pass Oyamazakura