Banzuke for Hatsu 2018

[kedevash]

Ryuden is the first makuuchi rikishi from Yamanashi since 30 years. The last one was Onohana who spend 1 basho in march 1988.

The others notables rikishi was sekiwake Fujizakura (73 basho in the 70's and Komusubi Fujinishiki (59 basho, one yusho) in the 60's

[lackmaker]

23 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Man, sometimes, you know, like, I feel like taking a remote control and maybe changing the friggin' channel.

 

Careful with that remote, things get out of hand.

[Benihana]

I think the situation isn't even remotely funny anymore.

[ryafuji]

7 hours ago, kedevash said:

Ryuden is the first makuuchi rikishi from Yamanashi since 30 years. The last one was Onohana who spend 1 basho in march 1988.

 

He also went juryo -> jonokuchi -> makuuchi. which can't have happened too often. (Was Kotobeppu the last one?)

[Asashosakari]

47 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

He also went juryo -> jonokuchi -> makuuchi. which can't have happened too often. (Was Kotobeppu the last one?)

Yes, they're the only two according to the Kyokai's banzuke topics.

[dada78641]

On 12/26/2017 at 15:05, McBugger said:

Maybe if your remote control doesn't work, you could try hitting it on something. That's what my dad always used to do and most of the time it seemed to work. 

In other news is anyone else feeling dizzy and lightheaded?

 

Don't actually take this seriously my dad is a good peaceful guy who repairs old bicycles as a hobby

We don't hit people with remote controls anymore. Bad things happened the last time.

[Mutsu'ohideki]

8 hours ago, ryafuji said:

He also went juryo -> jonokuchi -> makuuchi. which can't have happened too often. (Was Kotobeppu the last one?)

How in the sam **** is that possible?

[Kishinoyama]

1 hour ago, Mutsu'ohideki said:

How in the sam **** is that possible?

An injury....

[Asojima]

1 hour ago, Mutsu'ohideki said:

How in the sam **** is that possible?

A high potential rikishi who suffered an injury requiring an extended recovery period.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Asojima

[Mutsu'ohideki]

Just now, Asojima said:

A high potential rikishi who suffered an injury requiring and extended recovery period.

So, they demote a juryo straight to jonokuchi?

[Kishinoyama]

1 minute ago, Mutsu'ohideki said:

So, they demote a juryo straight to jonokuchi?

An extended recovery time means missing several tournaments and getting demoted several times.

[Mutsu'ohideki]

Just now, Kishinoyama said:

An extended recovery time means missing several tournaments and getting demoted several times.

i'm saying i thought there was no injury, just straight demotion to jonokunchi like this: J MK -> JK

[Asashosakari]

Ryuden is also a "great" example of the folly of trying to work through some unhealed injuries - a broken hip was what stopped his juryo debut in Kyushu 2012, and he subsequently broke it two more times, which probably cost him an extra year of recovery.

I wonder if his shisho ever regretted his stance at the time?

Ryuden - some right hip injury (右股関節内血症、右股関節唇損傷...anyone?), two to three weeks; "I wouldn't have gone kyujo with that; he'll be back in if he decides to man up", says shisho ex-Akinoshima the ever-charming

[Jakusotsu]

Sorry for chiming in late, but the way they botched up M11-M17 looks like too many dice fell the wrong way.

[Atenzan]

2 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Sorry for chiming in late, but the way they botched up M11-M17 looks like too many dice fell the wrong way.

They always do an egregiously bad job in the banzuke committee. It's the reason that brilliant frustrating game can be played 10 times or more by the same player in the same basho. 

But this time they almost outdid themselves. Yutakayama 2 mai above Asanoyama? Christ on a bike... 

[Atenzan]

2 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Sorry for chiming in late, but the way they botched up M11-M17 looks like too many dice fell the wrong way.

And of course the Kyokai is always wrong and we are always right. That is an objective fact. 

[ryafuji]

8 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Ryuden is also a "great" example of the folly of trying to work through some unhealed injuries - a broken hip was what stopped his juryo debut in Kyushu 2012, and he subsequently broke it two more times, which probably cost him an extra year of recovery.

 

 

 

I see he went 1-0-6 four basho in a row - I presume that was a deliberate decision to make a single appearance each time to avoid going banzuke-gai. I really hope he has better luck in his makuuchi debut than he did in his juryo.

[Asashosakari]

26 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

I see he went 1-0-6 four basho in a row - I presume that was a deliberate decision to make a single appearance each time to avoid going banzuke-gai.

One of the promotion articles the other day touched on that (Nikkan), quoting Ryuden with "I didn't want to see my shikona disappear from the banzuke".

For his part, Ryuden hopes to win double-digits in his debut doing speedy, forward-moving sumo, and wants to go up all the way to sanyaku soon, as part of what his shisho describes as "his real sumo life starts here now".

Abi meanwhile has said he wants to win all three sansho in his debut. After someone from the assembled press pointed out what kind of exceptional performance that tends to require, he revised his goal down to two sansho. 

Edited December 28, 2017 by Asashosakari

[Asashosakari]

2 hours ago, McBugger said:

They always do an egregiously bad job in the banzuke committee. It's the reason that brilliant frustrating game can be played 10 times or more by the same player in the same basho. 

But this time they almost outdid themselves. Yutakayama 2 mai above Asanoyama? Christ on a bike... 

That actually used to be pretty much normal banzuke-making prior to the current emphasis on favouring the makekoshi. Maegashira with "should stay" records -> juryo with "should promote" records -> maegashira with "not enough to stay" records -> juryo with "not enough to promote" records. So, Yutakayama and Ishiura ahead of Asanoyama and Daiamami is only unusual in the current era, but not in the wider historical context. The real surprise is that they put Ryuden ahead, too.

[robnplunder]

On 12/26/2017 at 03:22, mikawa said:

So Mitakeumi needs 16 wins to reach Ozeki? Seriously though, the new guys are really starting to make their mark on lower sanyaku, they now occupy 2 komusubi and a sekiwake spot, and on top of that, maegashira east 1 as well

It's time for Mitakeumi to accumulate double digit wins ... on to Ozekiship.   Takakeisho and Onosho just might do that, too, starting this basho.   All 3 are poised for the next Ozeki rank given the (aging) top of the heap began to crumble.

[Bumpkin]

5 hours ago, robnplunder said:

It's time for Mitakeumi to accumulate double digit wins ... on to Ozekiship.   Takakeisho and Onosho just might do that, too, starting this basho.   All 3 are poised for the next Ozeki rank given the (aging) top of the heap began to crumble.

Don't forget about Tamawashi. He might be on an Ozeki run!

[robnplunder]

2 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

Don't forget about Tamawashi. He might be on an Ozeki run!

33 wins in the next 3 bashos would do it.   In his previous Sekiwake rank, Tamawashi could only muster 27 wins.  Not bad, but a way off of the Ozeki run.   

Mitakeumi would need 24 wins in the next two bashos.   If he wins less than 24, I'd guess he would need an yusho to be considered for an Ozeki rank.  That's not going to be easy.   I'd settle for 33 wins in the next 3 bashos.   Even that will require some help from the current batch of aging san'yakus. 

Takakeisho & Onosho's immediate task is to keep their san'yaku rank, move up to Sekiwake, and pile up enough wins.

I say, of the aforementioned, Mitakeumi has the inside track.

Edited December 29, 2017 by robnplunder

[Atenzan]

Nobody's on an ozeki run... not yet, anyway. Mitakeumi averaged 9.17 wins per basho all in san'yaku in 2017. That's certainly an indicator he would hold his own as an ozeki, certainly in a year or two when he's had some more basho under his belt. But 9 wins isn't the start of an ozeki run. It's the means to secure your sekiwake spot. He's only fought out of the top 16 (meaning he faced opposition he would have faced as an ozeki) 8 times throughout his young career. His win tallies were 5, 6, 11, 9, 8, 9, 8, 9 in chronological order. 

Tamawashi? He just compiled his first career 11-win basho out of the top 16 in November. He's also 33, and even though he's never been badly hurt/injured, he's racked up some serious mileage on his body. 8.86 wins/basho is good enough for a career ozeki, which is what he's averaging over the past 7 basho he's been in the top 16- but his 11 in Kyushu came off consecutive 7-8  basho. And in the rest of his 43 makuuchi basho, he's only had 2 top-16 appearances where he went a cumulative 7-21 in bouts he actually fought. I say Father Time catches up to him, although if he puts up 11-12 in January, it's going to be interesting.

Ounoshou and Takakeishou have each had a grand total of 2 top-16 basho each, so their job is to string a few KK to give us a sample size large enough for the rest of the top rikishi to know them better and themselves to settle in san'yaku... if all goes well for them. They haven't even made sekiwake yet, so the ozeki run is quite a way away. You can say Takakeishou, coming off 11 wins, might be on an ozeki run in Haru if he gets another double-digit result in Hatsu, but that could work against his favour (see Miyabiyama).

I'm opting to not sweat the matter of ozeki runs yet and just enjoy the powerful lower san'yaku for what it is. 

[Ryoshishokunin]

2 hours ago, McBugger said:

But 9 wins isn't the start of an ozeki run.

Sure it is... if you follow it up with 24 more wins in the next two basho.

[Atenzan]

34 minutes ago, Ryoshishokunin said:

Sure it is... if you follow it up with 24 more wins in the next two basho.

I mean yeah, you're not wrong. I get how ozeki promotion works. But there have been 328 9-6 basho at M2+ since 1950, and they only produced 11 32-win or better ozeki runs. Let him get 12+, maybe even 11, in January and I'll entertain the possibility. Again, Im not bashing Mitakeumi, I love the guy and I'm very excited to see him reach new heights. But I feel with ozeki-run talk that people are expecting  too much too soon, and that might take away some of the enjoyment and due admiration.

(329 actually, but I don't count Tochinoumi's second basho in his 9-9-14Y run.)