Basho Talk - Nagoya 2017 (SPOILERS)

[robnplunder]

9 hours ago, Jyuunomori said:

Ura beats a Yokozuna, Kinboshi.

He beat a Yokozuna at M4e, when he shouldn't even be facing them. If Ura goes 8 wins I think a fighting spirit prize would be in order, no?

Agreed.   Ura looks stronger and quicker than the previous basho.   He may surprise us all with makekosh and then some.   Looking like he may take an M1 or M2 spot in the next basho and face THE competition.   Seriously, how many of us predicted that Ura will do this well in this basho so far?

[Dapeng]

30 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

Agreed.   Ura looks stronger and quicker than the previous basho.   He may surprise us all with makekosh and then some.   Looking like he may take an M1 or M2 spot in the next basho and face THE competition.   Seriously, how many of us predicted that Ura will do this well in this basho so far?

Sure, with two yokozuna and an ozeki and the popular Endo withdrawal and Hakuho refuses to lose, the only excitement of this basho is Ura ...

[Katooshu]

10 hours ago, Jyuunomori said:

Ura beats a Yokozuna, Kinboshi.

He beat a Yokozuna at M4e, when he shouldn't even be facing them. If Ura goes 8 wins I think a fighting spirit prize would be in order, no?

As long as Hokutofuji gets one too if he reaches 8 wins. Incidentally, to those knowledgeable of special prize selection, what are Aoiyama's chances looking like? If he ends up with, say, 11 wins, is the strong start probably enough to overcome the lack of notable opposition and lower than usual rank?

Also, I lol'd at this:

 

Edited July 17, 2017 by Katooshu

[Kaminariyuki]

1 hour ago, robnplunder said:

Agreed.   Ura looks stronger and quicker than the previous basho.   He may surprise us all with makekosh and then some.   Looking like he may take an M1 or M2 spot in the next basho and face THE competition.   Seriously, how many of us predicted that Ura will do this well in this basho so far?

Raises hand. :)   I grant you it was mostly optimism, but I called the kinboshi on Saturday after Ura got slammed by Hakuho. It's on the record in the Ura - Yokozuna bandwagon thread. Of course, I suspect he's going to get steam rolled by Takayasu tomorrow, but the tournament has had some wonderful surprises. Maybe there are a few left.

[Bumpkin]

52 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

As long as Hokutofuji gets one too if he reaches 8 wins. Incidentally, to those knowledgeable of special prize selection, what are Aoiyama's chances looking like? If he ends up with, say, 11 wins, is the strong start probably enough to overcome the lack of notable opposition and lower than usual rank?

 

Aoiyama will not recieve a sansho with only 11 wins. He needs at least 12 and probably 13. Last basho, M10e Tochinoshin was 12-3 and got nothing. 

[Katooshu]

Tochinoshin did start 4-2 though, while Aoiyama got up to 7-0. If I recall correctly, there is bias towards rikishi with particularly strong first week records (so starting strong is viewed more favourably than ending strong).

Edited July 17, 2017 by Katooshu

[Gurowake]

I was only like 5% serious, in the sense that I thought that it was maybe possibly a good idea, but knowing that there was no way it was going to happen.  And I didn't even think about the fact that the heyas currently have arrangements in all 3 other cities that would somehow need to be duplicated should they move elsewhere.

[robnplunder]

3 hours ago, Dapeng said:

Sure, with two yokozuna and an ozeki and the popular Endo withdrawal and Hakuho refuses to lose, the only excitement of this basho is Ura ...

I've noticed that the number of kensho dropped.   Many winners got no kensho yesterday.  

[Tiger Tanaka]

When Ura made his Makuuchi debut and began rising through the ranks, I definitely had some apprehension. I didn't want this immensely popular youngster with such an odd style, different from all other rikishi, to beat and overtake my favorite up and comers. In the ~5 months I've been following the sport, it's the only 'negative' reaction I've had to a rikishi (apart from some temporary anger at Terunofuji's henka against Geek in March). Part of it is, in American sports (along with other sports and perspectives in other countries) you are expected and almost trained to love or hate something.

Well I've changed my course. Embrace it all. Whether you like or dislike Ura's style and tactics, he brings a unique excitement to the sport. When you watch Ura, you expect the unexpected and that's a good thing for sumo. This young man gives it everything he has every match on the dohyo, conducts himself with honor and humility, always showing the utmost respect, and has a clear deep passion for the sport. How can you not like that? I will still root for Mitakeumi or Takekeisho over Ura, but I wish Ura a long and healthy career with many successes over the years, and in the process, providing myself and all sumo fans with many entertaining memories. Ganbatte Ura!

 

[bettega]

4 hours ago, Dapeng said:

Sure, with two yokozuna and an ozeki and the popular Endo withdrawal and Hakuho refuses to lose, the only excitement of this basho is Ura ...

... and Kaisei, for sure 

I just don't get the "Endo Hype" - the other new guys are much more promising. And Endo isn't a "new guy" with his 26y - Myogiryu was S with lots of sansho with that age.

And for God's sake! We're watching history being made with the GOAT (I somewhat dislike the term... maybe GoS "God of Sumo" is better). We're truly lucky guys

[Kaminariyuki]

27 minutes ago, bettega said:

... and Kaisei, for sure 

I just don't get the "Endo Hype" - the other new guys are much more promising. And Endo isn't a "new guy" with his 26y - Myogiryu was S with lots of sansho with that age.

And for God's sake! We're watching history being made with the GOAT (I somewhat dislike the term... maybe GoS "God of Sumo" is better). We're truly lucky guys

I agree. Hakuho is amazing, and he's completely on at the moment."Awesome" is an over used word, but it's an adjective that fits here. When he crushed Ura to the doyho on Sunday, I thought I saw a glint in his eye that said, "Not bad, this kid may someday take me down." Probably just my imagination, but I'll make another prediction: some day he shall. I'll bet it won't be in September, though.

Although there was a debate on this thread last week, I think Harumafuji is also a truly great wrestler. He's simply been over shadowed by a phenom, and today he was taken down by a spectacularly executed surprise attack. Next time will be another story.

[Amamaniac]

I watched the replay of the Hakuho vs Ura bout today and noticed that, in terms of the first wrestler to touch out, Ura lost, but only because his mage was loose and hanging down, thereby brushing the dohyo first.  It looked to me like Hakuho's right fist touched down in the corner just before Ura's torso.  However, that observation is mute since it was clear to all that Ura was already in a shinitai position.  

The difference between Hakuho's bout with Ura and Harumafuji's was that Hakuho had done his homework, whereas Harumafuji did not. Hakuho knew that Ura would come in extra low at the tachiai and he used counter maneuvers pushing Ura back by the shoulders at the initial charge.  Harumafuji engaged Ura low out of the tachiai, and Ura swallowed Harumafuji's arm(s).  Ura is extremely strong wrestling low to the ground.  Harumafuji, who can also wrestle low to the ground, definitely met his match and was embarrassed in the process.

 

[Amamaniac]

Does anyone have any doubts that Hakuho has this tournament sewn up now that Takayasu has two losses and Harumafuji has three?

Edited July 18, 2017 by Amamaniac

[Bumpkin]

1 minute ago, Amamaniac said:

Does anyone doubts that Hakuho has this tournament sewn up now that Takayasu has two losses and Harumafuji has three?

99% certain. He could stub his toe and fall. He could get injured. That happened in Nagoya 2016.

[robnplunder]

51 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

I watched the replay of the Hakuho vs Ura bout today and noticed that, in terms of the first wrestler to touch out, Ura lost, but only because his mage was loose and hanging down, thereby brushing the dohyo first.  It looked to me like Hakuho's right fist touched down in the corner just before Ura's torso.  However, that observation is mute since it was clear to all that Ura was already in a shinitai position.  

The difference between Hakuho's bout with Ura and Harumafuji's was that Hakuho had done his homework, whereas Harumafuji did not. Hakuho knew that Ura would come in extra low at the tachiai and he used counter maneuvers pushing Ura back by the shoulders at the initial charge.  Harumafuji engaged Ura low out of the tachiai, and Ura swallowed Harumafuji's arm(s).  Ura is extremely strong wrestling low to the ground.  Harumafuji, who can also wrestle low to the ground, definitely met his match and was embarrassed in the process.

 

Ura clearly lost but he was going toe to toe with Hak and had his chance(s).   He went for Hak's leg but wasn't able to grab it. If he did, the outcome may have been different.   Against Harumafuji, he went for an arm and was able to grab it for a pull down.   Against Takyasu today, neither tactic will work.  Perhaps, a timely henka?  Nah.   Takayasu does not even have to charge at tachi-hai.    I think he will just slap Ura around and out of the ring. 

[Amamaniac]

14 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

Takayasu does not even have to charge at tachi-hai.    I think he will just slap Ura around and out of the ring. 

Takayasu definitely has the weight advantage against Ura.  But he is coming off a loss on Day 9 and may have lost his will to fight since he probably realizes at this point he is out of contention.  Ura on the other hand has just had a taste of kinboshi victory (and despite a probable sake-rich celebration back at the heya), will come out for more.

My gut feeling is that Ura will confound Takayasu just like he confounded Harumafuji yesterday.  At the very least, I'd say the odds are 50-50.  Let's see what happens.

[robnplunder]

54 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Takayasu definitely has the weight advantage against Ura.  But he is coming off a loss on Day 9 and may have lost his will to fight since he probably realizes at this point he is out of contention.  Ura on the other hand has just had a taste of kinboshi victory (and despite a probable sake-rich celebration back at the heya), will come out for more.

My gut feeling is that Ura will confound Takayasu just like he confounded Harumafuji yesterday.  At the very least, I'd say the odds are 50-50.  Let's see what happens.

50-50 sounds good.   But Takayasu, coming off of a loss, he will be mad at the world and crush Ura.  

 

On another front, Takakeishio needs to bounce back.   He seems to be losing his confidence as the basho goes on.

Edited July 18, 2017 by robnplunder

[inhashi]

With worries about the cracking dohyo, today parts of one side has collapsed.  It appears to be the east side.
    

Repairs have begun minutes after Juryo dohyoiri by a number (7-10) of yobidashi.

Edited July 18, 2017 by inhashi

[Tsuchinoninjin]

It's concerning. The weather conditions are not good, I know it's Nagoya in summer but it feels like there's just that bit more. I'm not a clay expert but it doesn't seem great.

If it were Sunday it wouldn't matter but there is a long way to go. Plus if there is more breakage there could be injury. Even though it cracks that clay sets really hard, the big pieces could be trouble...

[MrGrumpyGills]

I've never seen a rikishi sprinting towards his opponent until now, what a crazy and entertaining bout!
Takayasu really had to work for that win XD

[Philioyamfugi]

I did not think Ura would be a pushover. That was fun and exciting match !

[Morty]

 The first half was pretty uninspiring but then we had:

Tochinoshin / Ichinojo: no pretence at anything other than grab each other's belt and try and bull the other one out. Not even a hint of anything other than go for the belt and prove who is strongest. I always hope these two get paired against each other - fabulous stuff (Okinoumi / Chiyomaru was similar, without being anywhere near as good).

Yoshikaze, who usually likes a good slapfest, going straight for the belt against Takekeisho and then schooling him in Yotsu-sumo by picking him up and carrying him out!

Takayasu / Ura, which was freaking awesome. Takayasu just published the blueprint for how to deal with Ura (that was Ozeki sumo!). Expect to see a bit more of that treatment in future.

And finally, the master class that was Hak / Chiyoshoma.

Brilliant second half.

[WAKATAKE]

Surprised that Aoiyama's not flopping around, another couple of wins should get him one of the top two ranks as an opponent. 

Always cool to watch Tochinoshin versus Ichinojo, they never disappoint no matter who wins.

Mitakeumi doing the best out of the sanyaku, but everybody else still has a chance at KK, meaning there could be no sanyaku promotions next basho.

Excellent bout between Takayasu and Ura. Hopefully Ura's not injured since he was limping off the dohyo after the match. Takayasu seemed ready for him kind of like how Hakuho was ready for Takakeisho. These are good times indeed for sumo.

Hakuho now at 1046 wins, two more to break Kaio's record and stand on top of the world in pretty much everything, barring the consecutive wins record.

[Washuyama]

32 minutes ago, WAKATAKE said:

Hakuho now at 1046 wins, two more to break Kaio's record and stand on top of the world in pretty much everything, barring the consecutive wins record.

At 25 and counting...Only 45 to go!  

The odds are against him, but after an injury plagued year it would be a potent reminder to all who the king is.

[YoungSumo]

Takayasu - Ura was probably my favorite bout from this basho so far. With Takayasu proving he belongs as an Ozeki and Ura showing he can handle himself quite well against even the absolute top, I'm looking forward to many more bouts to come between these two.