Basho Talk - Nagoya 2017 (SPOILERS)

[Jyuunomori]

And Hakuho takes it all:

Prestige, Money and Aoiyama's fleeting dreams.

[Atenzan]

On 16/07/2017 at 07:01, Gurowake said:

should see O v O in the "musubi-no-niban" (結びの二番　- I'm totally making that term up on my own; I have no idea whether anyone actually uses it this way) on senshuraku, and the soroibumi will also include whichever maegashira happens to be Tamawashi's opponent.

Excellent prediction, kudos. Before the nakabi bouts too. BTW, the term for the "musubi-no-niban" I've heard from time to time is 結びの前 musubi no mae.

[WAKATAKE]

You heard it from Hakuho, his next goal is 1000 makuuchi wins. 44 to go.

[RabidJohn]

What an excellent basho!

I said I'd be pleased if just one from Takakeisho, Hokutofuji or Ura could KK, and Hokutofuji did, so I'm happy. I've seen a few comments that he's reminiscent of Kaio, but he reminds me of his boss, Hokutoumi.

I'm really pleased for Ura being able to hang on. I expected 6-9 would be a good showing for him before the basho, so a 7-8 carrying an injury for the last 4 days really is excellent. I'm not too disappointed by Takakeisho's showing either. He's gonna be up there regularly, and higher. He kind of reminded me of Takatoriki in attitude and feistiness.

Shame Tamawashi couldn't keep it up, but he's had a way better than expected run as it is. Hopefully he'll only drop to KE, while Yoshikaze will be back to sekiwake for Aki and, as long as that loss to Aoiyama is not an indication, looking like he can hang on to it for a while.

Obviously I'm pleased also that Mitakeumi managed his KK as a shin-sekiwake, but I can't help feeling he let double digits and the start of an ozeki run slip away with a couple of losses that really should not have happened.

Takayasu clearly hasn't signed up to the OBC! He didn't do anywhere near as well as he said he would, but he'll be the only ozeki not kadoban at Aki, which is a positive outcome.

Another titanic yotsu battle to finish and another yusho for the peerless... I want to call him "dai-sensei-yokozuna", if that translates to 'great master yokozuna', cos that's what I mean. So now Hakuko is going for no. 40 and 1000 makuuchi wins. If he can remain uninjured he'll definitely have exceeded both by this time next year. It's becoming apparent that Kisenosato snuck in at just the right time. Even if he gets back to full fitness, Kisenosato is going to have to go back to collecting jun-yusho while ever an in-form Hakuho is around.

Edited July 23, 2017 by RabidJohn

[dingo]

Too bad for Ura, he most likely would've gotten a kachikoshi had it not been for that injury. Still, 7-8 is a respectable result, especially considering that he was thrown to the sanyaku in the middle of the basho.

[SumpaX]

3 hours ago, RabidJohn said:

 

I want to call him "dai-sensei-yokozuna", if that translates to 'great master yokozuna', cos that's what I mean. 

Wasnt there a yokozuna who got a special title? I forgot what that title was, but it meant something along those lines... (must be a couple hundred years ago sry cant remember)

[Stelios]

39 minutes ago, SumpaX said:

Wasnt there a yokozuna who got a special title? I forgot what that title was, but it meant something along those lines... (must be a couple hundred years ago sry cant remember)

Well there was certainly an ozeki that got a special title, that of a yokozuna, a couple of centuries ago!

[Yubinhaad]

Yorikiri win for Sasakiyama, and then (delete as applicable):

A) He stubs his toe on the tawara
B) His feet slip on the sand
C) Dame-oshi from the Invisible Man
D) Kimura Zennosuke activates his rikishi magnets
E) Audition for a shokkiri spot on next month's jungyo

 

 

[orandashoho]

And the way the guys in the background keep talking about Aoiyama's prizes... the yusho, for sure.

[Katooshu]

Glad to see Aoiyama win again. He certainly did his part to add excitement to the basho! On the disappointing side, my man Hokutofuji gets his KK but misses out on a special prize and sanyaku promotion.

Already eager for another basho

Edited July 23, 2017 by Katooshu

[Benihana]

24 minutes ago, Yubinhaad said:

Yorikiri win for Sasakiyama, and then (delete as applicable):

A) He stubs his toe on the tawara
B) His feet slip on the sand
C) Dame-oshi from the Invisible Man
D) Kimura Zennosuke activates his rikishi magnets
E) Audition for a shokkiri spot on next month's jungyo

F) He slips, tries to do a step backwards, gets his heels cought at the tarawa, the rest is history...or Horyuyama said *BOO*. We will never know.

[Kaminariyuki]

Ah, yes, an excellent basho. I too, was grieved by Ura's injury, and just missing KK, but he did very well at M-4, including  a first kinboshi! I'm looking for a prize for our boy in September. I have to say, I was very excited to see Ura get to joi-jin, even if by a couple of withdrawals, but I won't be dissappointed if he down't have to wrestle the yokozuna and ozeik in the next basho. Even if it wasn't classic sumo, my favorite bout was Ura losing to Takayasu. He may have injured himself, but he was giving it everything he had. No doubt there.

Hakuho is a beast, definitely my favorite for # 40 next time around, but as we all know it could go in many directions. Hopefully, the upper level wounded all come back mended and readyfor battle. Only five or six weeks to go til the return to the Kokugikan.

And, I watched Mitakeumi's post match interview. I have to agree, he seems like a good kid. I'd onlyseen his truly dour (not neutral) disposition on the dohyo. His sumo was most impressive, although I'll be looking for Ura to take him down in September.

[Dapeng]

 The Sept basho is also Hakuho's so he'll reach yusho 40. The only one who has some chance is Harumafuji. 

[Amamaniac]

Did anyone out there feel that the bout between Kotoshogiku and Hokutofuji deserved a monoii, and perhaps even a torinaoshi?  The issue of shinitai could well enter into the determination, but as I saw it, Kotoshogiku was already on his way down while Hokutofuji was still upright and in the ring.  It looked very similar to the Ikioi versus Hakuho bout back in March.  At least, there the judges held a monoii.  I have to say, the judges are not fulfilling their duties IMHO.

[dada78641]

3 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

Did anyone out there feel that the bout between Kotoshogiku and Hokutofuji deserved a monoii, and perhaps even a torinaoshi?  The issue of shinitai could well enter into the determination, but as I saw it, Kotoshogiku was already on his way down while Hokutofuji was still upright and in the ring.  It looked very similar to the Ikioi versus Hakuho bout back in March.  At least, there the judges held a monoii.  I have to say, the judges are not fulfilling their duties IMHO.

It did look a bit suspect. In the end I think his leg wasn't touching the ground when Hokutofuji went out, but I had to look at the replay to make sure. I'm surprised they didn't at least call a monoii to look at it carefully given what was at stake. 

[dada78641]

Pic

Something weird I noticed, the score between Hakuho and Harumafuji was 35-21 before their match. Sumo DB now has them at 37-21. Plus the win from their last match, it should've been 36-21...what's causing this discrepancy? Sumo DB has dates and details for all of their matches, even videos, so are the NHK's statistics are off by one? 

edit: I guess it's a fusensho but I don't see which one it is.

Edited July 24, 2017 by dada78641

[Doitsuyama]

1 hour ago, dada78641 said:

Pic

Something weird I noticed, the score between Hakuho and Harumafuji was 35-21 before their match. Sumo DB now has them at 37-21. Plus the win from their last match, it should've been 36-21...what's causing this discrepancy? Sumo DB has dates and details for all of their matches, even videos, so are the NHK's statistics are off by one? 

edit: I guess it's a fusensho but I don't see which one it is.

SumoDB counts bouts in all divisions (wouldn't make much sense otherwise considering this is a stat displayed for all matchups), the stats displayed in TV usuallly are makuuchi only.

[Benevolance]

Actually, every time Hakuho beats someone really convincingly they award him two wins. I mean, how else could someone possibly make it to 1048? 

[Dapeng]

5 hours ago, dada78641 said:

It did look a bit suspect. In the end I think his leg wasn't touching the ground when Hokutofuji went out, but I had to look at the replay to make sure. I'm surprised they didn't at least call a monoii to look at it carefully given what was at stake. 

A clear miss judgement was on one of Aoiyama's. Aoiyama lost that one and "even a child can see it" but he was awarded a win without monoyi. 

[Dwale]

22 hours ago, SumpaX said:

Wasnt there a yokozuna who got a special title? I forgot what that title was, but it meant something along those lines... (must be a couple hundred years ago sry cant remember)

I believe you refer to Raiden Tameemon who was an ozeki (the reason he didn't reach yokozuna rank is lost to time), who was granted the title "peerless rikishi." He won 96% of his matches, which is even better than Hakuho (although one cannot be fair without mentioning that sumo was very different in Raiden's day).

[lackmaker]

Surely this was before yokozuna was really a rank. So it wouldn't have meant the same as today.

[Dwale]

So, just a couple of observations I wanted to write down...

Onosho looks comfortable in makuuchi. If he can continue to put in performances like this then he has a bright future.

Mitakeumi doesn't seem to be ready for ozeki yet, but he is a fast learner... I predict ozekihood for him within 9 basho, barring injury.

Tochinoshin might have leveled up. He did have an easier schedule this basho than he would have had otherwise, but I think he looked sharp. If he has truly tapped into some hitherto under-utilized resource then folks had better watch out!

Ura performed admirably considering he was joi all the sudden, and I think he would have gone KK had he not been injured. But, again, he wasn't dealing with the full brunt of the sanyaku. We'll see how he does next attempt, but I wasn't disappointed with him. I expect he will do better the next time he is joi. 

Takayasu might have partied a bit too much. But he went KK, so eh. Seemed his focus was off.

We had a number of rikishi in makuuchi who need to go back to the drawing board and reconsider their sumo. I won't name them, but you know who I mean. 

(Aminshiki, you rascal! Don't ever change.)

 

[dada78641]

4 hours ago, Doitsuyama said:

SumoDB counts bouts in all divisions (wouldn't make much sense otherwise considering this is a stat displayed for all matchups), the stats displayed in TV usuallly are makuuchi only.

Thank you, that does explain it. One of their matches was in jonidan.

[Katooshu]

3 hours ago, Dapeng said:

A clear miss judgement was on one of Aoiyama's. Aoiyama lost that one and "even a child can see it" but he was awarded a win without monoyi. 

Which bout was that? The Kagayaki win was certainly questionable, but that went to a mono-ii. 

Edited July 24, 2017 by Katooshu

[ALAKTORN]

Where does the “even a child could see it” quote come from? I only remember it vaguely.

Edit: Don’t want to make further replies on this but thanks for the link, having watched it again Hakuhō might’ve even lost that first bout considering his foot turned around and he touched down with not-the-sole. That wasn’t a smart remark.

Edited July 24, 2017 by ALAKTORN