Basho Talk - Kyushu Basho 2016 ** (SPOILERS)

[Chiyozakura 163]

On 21.11.2016 at 15:51, Akinomaki said:

With this Tomozuna appears either as a villain or an idiot - in any case, he proved to be as unfit as injured Izutsu was for the post of vice-top shimpan.

Reminds me of the shimpan who fell off the dohyo during a mono-ii from a serious hangover. At least he was never to work as a shimpan again. I hope they do something with Tomozuna as well. Ruining someone's Yokozuna chances because you have no idea what is going on somehow sucks.

[RabidJohn 2,086]

52 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

 I don't think throat grabbing is legal in sumo.  

It is. It's called nodowa and it's the price you pay for not keeping your chin down. Considering the force being applied, I don't think it makes any real difference whether the throat is actually gripped or not. I loved seeing Harumafuji fall victim to it on day 1, simply because he uses it so regularly. Hoist by his own etc. Current chairman Hakkaku also used nodowa frequently back when he was Hoshi/Hokutoumi, so I can't see him pushing for a change either.

Am I the only one who didn't think today's Hak-Kise bout was that great? It was certainly an entertaining comedy of errors, but it wasn't exactly brillant sumo from either of them. I'll give Kise credit for a win from a losing position, but for me it was only because Hak wasn't all there today.

[Rocks 1,810]

16 minutes ago, rzombie1988 said:

- Time to see how good Kakuryu is right now. 10-0's good but his best opponent so far was an injured Terunofuji. Not the best way to determine how good someone is doing. I'd be really surprised if he can make it out of the Hakuho/Kise/Harumafuji grinder without a loss.

I think Kisenosato will beat Kakuryu, easily. They've faced each other 47 times. Kise has won 30. Kak has won the last 2. Kak has never beaten Kise 3 times in a row. Kise will be pumped after the Hakuho win. Kise wins,

[Rocks 1,810]

7 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

It is. It's called nodowa and it's the price you pay for not keeping your chin down. Considering the force being applied, I don't think it makes any real difference whether the throat is actually gripped or not. I loved seeing Harumafuji fall victim to it on day 1, simply because he uses it so regularly. Hoist by his own etc. Current chairman Hakkaku also used nodowa frequently back when he was Hoshi/Hokutoumi, so I can't see him pushing for a change either.

Am I the only one who didn't think today's Hak-Kise bout was that great? It was certainly an entertaining comedy of errors, but it wasn't exactly brillant sumo from either of them. I'll give Kise credit for a win from a losing position, but for me it was only because Hak wasn't all there today.

It's true. Not great sumo, but a great match. 

[Rocks 1,810]

Oh, and Myogiryu needs to win 2 of the next 5 for his KK. That's cutting it too close to play patty fingers with Goldenrod. He will beat Ishiura.

[robnplunder 978]

7 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

It is. It's called nodowa and it's the price you pay for not keeping your chin down. Considering the force being applied, I don't think it makes any real difference whether the throat is actually gripped or not. I loved seeing Harumafuji fall victim to it on day 1, simply because he uses it so regularly. Hoist by his own etc. Current chairman Hakkaku also used nodowa frequently back when he was Hoshi/Hokutoumi, so I can't see him pushing for a change either.

Am I the only one who didn't think today's Hak-Kise bout was that great? It was certainly an entertaining comedy of errors, but it wasn't exactly brillant sumo from either of them. I'll give Kise credit for a win from a losing position, but for me it was only because Hak wasn't all there today.

Thanks for the explanation.   I learned something about sumo everyday.    I still say shinpan/judging in this basho has been sub-par.

[ryafuji 827]

1 hour ago, robnplunder said:

 I don't think throat grabbing is legal in sumo.  

 

7 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

It is. It's called nodowa and it's the price you pay for not keeping your chin down. Considering the force being applied, I don't think it makes any real difference whether the throat is actually gripped or not. I loved seeing Harumafuji fall victim to it on day 1, simply because he uses it so regularly. Hoist by his own etc. Current chairman Hakkaku also used nodowa frequently back when he was Hoshi/Hokutoumi, so I can't see him pushing for a change either.

Well it depends what you mean by "grabbing". Strictly speaking nodowa is pushing the opponent back with an open hand against the throat. If one was to close one's hand around the throat then that could look like squeezing or choking which is illegal.

[Jojo 11]

1 hour ago, Ryoshishokunin said:

You don't have to be over the dohyo to win.  You don't have to be touching the ground to win.  

You lose if (and only if):

1. You touch the ground outside the dohyo

2. You touch the ground with some part of the body other than your foot

3. You do something illegal (hair-pulling, usually)
 

Could you please point me towards the source(s) for these rules? I've never seen them codified in such fashion, thanks.

 

1 hour ago, Ryoshishokunin said:

The dead-body rule comes up extremely rarely, to the point where you can mostly ignore that exists.   The position of your body doesn't matter: you can stand on the tawara all you like, and you can jump in the air to avoid hitting the ground, whatever.  An awful lot of bouts end with both rikishi reaching a losing position in close proximity to each other: you just have to lose second.  

Could you expand on the statistics for the use of the "dead-body" rule and also why it can mostly be ignored? Again, thanks, in advance.

 

[Sumozumo 240]

This has a pretty concise rundown.

http://ozumou.com/archives/31

I can translate it after I come home but it's pretty much what people say here already (carrying someone out of the ring, like a massive tochinoshin  style yorikiri)

[SumpaX 23]

1 hour ago, Rocks said:

I think Kisenosato will beat Kakuryu, easily. They've faced each other 47 times. Kise has won 30. Kak has won the last 2. Kak has never beaten Kise 3 times in a row. Kise will be pumped after the Hakuho win. Kise wins,

I am not 100% sure but 80% that he wins tomorrow.... dont forget he is still is an ozeki for a reason.

[Benevolance 2,534]

And that reason is because he can't make yokozuna. 

I'm rooting for Kise, though. Ever since NSK started that series of obviously photo-shopped images where Kise is relaxed and smiling, I've been won over by his charm. 

[robnplunder 978]

4 hours ago, ryafuji said:

 

Well it depends what you mean by "grabbing". Strictly speaking nodowa is pushing the opponent back with an open hand against the throat. If one was to close one's hand around the throat then that could look like squeezing or choking which is illegal.

It sure was a choking from my view.    If shinpan/judge saw it my way, they should have reversed the result.

[Asashosakari 20,339]

5 hours ago, robnplunder said:

If shinpan/judge saw it my way, they should have reversed the result.

Kintamayama's grandmother approves of this logic.

[Rocks 1,810]

Goldenrod is going against Ikioi on day 12. that should be good. I'm looking forward to that.

[robnplunder 978]

1 hour ago, Asashosakari said:

Kintamayama's grandmother approves of this logic.

So does your mother.   

 

Wow, Sokokurai was impressive agasint Chiyoshoma, an up and coming Mongolian rikishi.   

Ishiura perfected that semi-henka.  Another easy win, this time over M9 Myogiryu.   

Edited November 23, 2016 by robnplunder

[Jyuunomori 239]

Ishiura! One of the sansho is now locked for him, what an amazing basho!!

He is going to go 11 wins at least maybe even 12? Heavens he couldn't manage 13 wins could he?

Will we see him destroy Ikioi tomorrow?

 

Edited November 23, 2016 by Jyuunomori

[robnplunder 978]

4 minutes ago, Jyuunomori said:

 

Will we see him destroy Ikioi tomorrow?

 

I think not but I thought that many times before and Ishiura kept proving me wrong.   

[Benihana 1,976]

Have a i just seen Shodai's dead body win the bout?

[robnplunder 978]

23 minutes ago, Benihana said:

Have a i just seen Shodai's dead body win the bout?

LOL.   I must say my sumo watching life was a lot simpler when I didn't know about dead body rule.  Ignorance was bliss.

How about Yoshikaze beating the crowd favorite, Endo?   That was match of the day so far, IMO.

Yeah, Goeido dispatched Terunofuji.   Mr. T can lose 3 in a row and lose his Ozeki rank, yeah.

Edited November 23, 2016 by robnplunder

[Jyuunomori 239]

Beautiful Isamiashi by Shodai. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

Edited November 23, 2016 by Jyuunomori

[kuroimori 1,634]

Ouch! Takayasu dived head first into the tawara - and he colored his hair in the process to, I guess the new color is called, "bittersweet sandy clay".

[rhyen 1,863]

Kisenosato's Basho?

[robnplunder 978]

What?  No fHakuho henka?   

Kisenosato's Basho?

I sure hope so.

Edited November 23, 2016 by robnplunder

[Benihana 1,976]

39 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

LOL.   I must say my sumo watching life was a lot simpler when I didn't know about dead body rule.  Ignorance was bliss.

How about Yoshikaze beating the crowd favorite, Endo?   That was match of the day so far, IMO.

Yes, sometimes ignorance is bliss :)

The Goeido-Terunofuji staredown was cute. Hakuho must have been rofling hard watching this.

Kaisei finally won a bout, but why has it to be vs. Mitakeumi? Bummer.

Wow, Hakuho struggling again. Kudos to Takayasu!

YAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY KISENOSATOOO! Awesome.

3 tied and at least 5, if not 8 still in the yusho race. This gonna be exciting 

Could this be Ishiura's basho?

Edited November 23, 2016 by Benihana

[Jyuunomori 239]

Makuuchi Yusho Arasoi

Harumafuji 10-1

Kakuryuu 10-1

Ishiura 10-1

Who doesn't belong here? xD

 

I swear to god, if Ishiura wins the Yusho I will change my religion to Ishiuraism.