Basho Talk - Aki Basho 2016 +++ Spoiler Alert! +++

[Akinomaki]

On 17.9.2016 at 21:26, Akinomaki said:

On 17.9.2016 at 20:58, Rocks said:

Yes, and his only win out of 3 matches in Jonokuchi is Hattori's dive to the floor. The only thing this kid is blowing into the seat rows any time soon is gas.

Kinjo has no sumo abilities yet, but his maezumo bouts were quite vicious.

MMArm-wrestler Kinjo finished 5-2 after the "freebie" against Hattori - he learns fast. I guess it gave him a big confidence boost that he blew someone away with just his presence.

And Chiyotaikai basically was the same rogue fighter type when he entered Kokonoe-beya - he surely knows how to form someone like Kinjo into a sumo winner.

[kumoryu]

Can someone post the sansho winners, please?

[luispereira]

hooray for the double digits of Mitakeumi! 

[Mmikasazuma]

24 minutes ago, kumoryu said:

Can someone post the sansho winners, please?

Shukun-sho Okinoumi

Kanto-sho: Takayasu

Gino-sho: Endo

.....as expected

Edited September 25, 2016 by Mmikasazuma

[Jyuunomori]

I expected Endo to get the Kanto-Sho but I guess they respected the 13-2 record. Good for Endo.

[Gurowake]

2 hours ago, Mmikasazuma said:

Shukun-sho Okinoumi

Kanto-sho: Takayasu

Gino-sho: Endo

.....as expected

Not really as expected; normally they would give the sanyaku guy the gino-sho.  I went and verified that this was correct and that Takayasu and Endo weren't reversed just because of how high the expectation was in my mind at least of the reverse.

[WAKATAKE]

Does anybody by chance have a video of the yusho interview? I'd really like to hear what Goeido would have said.

[luispereira]

14 hours ago, inhashi said:

https://youtu.be/MIySr-QakEQ?t=262

 

here you go! oh! the yusho interview... I don't think it's outhere already in english

Edited September 25, 2016 by luispereira

[dingo]

I think what Inhashi means is the customary ringside interview on the last day after (was it after?) the presentation of the cup. 

[luispereira]

3 minutes ago, dingo said:

I think what Inhashi means is the customary ringside interview on the last day after (was it after?) the presentation of the cup. 

yeah:) think not around yet

[luispereira]

 

any translators?:P

[luispereira]

also the car ride eheh:

 

Edited September 25, 2016 by luispereira

[Harry]

11 hours ago, Morty said:

According to the database Kak has used 36 different Kimarite and his two top Kimarite (Yorikiri and Hatakikomi) only make up 40% of his wins. Note that they represent both forward and backward moving sumo. So I reckon his results fit my thesis, in that he is more versatile and thus able to adapt mid-match. Before he became a Yok I said he had the least chance of all the Ozeki of grabbing the rope, but his sumo is obviously adaptable and capable of evolving. This may be one (and I stress only one of a number of factors) that allowed him to make the next level.

One of the things I love about sumo is how hard it is to make it to Yokozuna. In the last 26 years there have only been nine promotions. It is freakishly hard to achieve, harder perhaps than achieving the top level in almost any other sport. So many factors have to come together at the right time to make it happen. Its hard enough to become an Ozeki, and from there it is a quantum leap to get the rope. We tend to discuss quite casually the chances of various rikishi to achieve different levels without considering what it actually means to get there. Many of us on the forum apply western ideas about winning and sporting achievement that suggest that being an Ozeki is somehow not good enough, and that if an Ozeki doesn't eventually get to Yokozuna then they have failed in some way. But getting to Ozeki is a massive achievement in and of itself. Kise may never get the rope, but there is no shame in that, because he is operating in rarified air already as an Ozeki, an achievement that the vast majority of rikishi will never get to. I hope he eventually gets the rope, but if he doesn't then we shouldn't consider it a failure - he has had a storied career.

Agreed, I certainly consider Kaio to have been a successful long career ozeki though I also think it would have been better if he could have taken that final step into Yokozuna. It just wasn't meant to be and his career at Yokozuna would likely have been very short if they had promoted him the one time it might have been possible to do so. 

I think Kise has had a great career but I think more than many ozeki who didn't make that promotion it feels like he should have made it. As many have pointed out this basho, he has been in makuuchi since he was 18 years old. It will be 12 years since he reached makuuchi in November this year. That's a long time and with him being in the top level so early I think many certainly expected him to make it to the top level. Perhaps that hype was unfair.

I am glad that Goeido got a makuuchi yusho. He was also quite young when promoted and seemed like the next big thing so for him to have gone from mediocrity to a yusho is quite something. Still not sure he can get a second one in a row but I hope he gives it a good try. It will be very exciting to see this Goeido meet a healthy Hakuho.

[dingo]

37 minutes ago, Harry said:

Agreed, I certainly consider Kaio to have been a successful long career ozeki though I also think it would have been better if he could have taken that final step into Yokozuna. It just wasn't meant to be and his career at Yokozuna would likely have been very short if they had promoted him the one time it might have been possible to do so. 

I think Kise has had a great career but I think more than many ozeki who didn't make that promotion it feels like he should have made it. As many have pointed out this basho, he has been in makuuchi since he was 18 years old. It will be 12 years since he reached makuuchi in November this year. That's a long time and with him being in the top level so early I think many certainly expected him to make it to the top level. Perhaps that hype was unfair.

I am glad that Goeido got a makuuchi yusho. He was also quite young when promoted and seemed like the next big thing so for him to have gone from mediocrity to a yusho is quite something. Still not sure he can get a second one in a row but I hope he gives it a good try. It will be very exciting to see this Goeido meet a healthy Hakuho.

I agree with almost everything, except Goeido being long time sekiwake and now ozeki is hardly mediocrity... Now Kyokutenho could be described as going from mediocrity (still,  in Makuuchi terms, not overall sumo terms) to yusho. 

I think we tend to forget too often that even a middling maegashira is still the cream of the crop in terms of the whole sumo establishment. 

[Harry]

30 minutes ago, dingo said:

I agree with almost everything, except Goeido being long time sekiwake and now ozeki is hardly mediocrity... Now Kyokutenho could be described as going from mediocrity (still,  in Makuuchi terms, not overall sumo terms) to yusho. 

I think we tend to forget too often that even a middling maegashira is still the cream of the crop in terms of the whole sumo establishment. 

Of course it's all relative. Sekitori is a world above, maegashira above them and those who make it to sanyaku let alone ozeki are in the top levels.

But spending so long at sekiwake without an ozeki run is because he was not that great a sekiwake. Even his ozeki run was 12-3 8-7 12-3, just 32 wins. Then 8-7 as his first ozeki basho, kadoban the basho after that, kadoban 3 more times for a total of 4/12 basho at ozeki was not exactly an exemplary performance at that rank. But this time a zensho yusho! His first time with more than 12 wins as a SEKITORI! Goeido really did rise above his own level this time in my opinion.

[WAKATAKE]

A few things about Goeido winning the yusho:

 - 8th kadoban Ozeki overall to win

 - First kadoban Ozeki to win with a zensho yusho

 - First rikishi from Osaka in 86 years to win the yusho

 - Goeido joins the company of Hakuho and Harumafuji as active rikishi with zensho yusho

 - He is the 5th oldest rikishi in the modern era to win his first yusho

 - He won the yusho in his 54th basho in Makuuchi, placing him at 4th for slowest pace from Makuuchi debut until yusho

 - He won the yusho in his 13th basho as an ozeki, placing at 9th for slowest pace from Ozeki debut until yusho (since the Showa era)

 - Won the yusho on day 14. Kotooshu and Kaio were the only other kadoban ozeki to do so

 - First rikishi since Takanosato back in Aki 1982 to win his first yusho on day 14 at 14-0

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1715098.html

[Morty]

Great, great basho. Very happy for Godo. The absence of Hak made it really interesting. For the first time in a long time it opened things right up and made it seem like anything could happen. Looking forward to seeing how Mitakeumi and Endo do in November. 

[Tenshinhan]

6 hours ago, Jyuunomori said:

Shin-Komusubi Mitakeumi and Aoiyama will most likely be the second Komusubi.

Takayasu needs 12 wins or more to be promoted. Jun-Yusho would do it.

Most likely, Tamawashi will grab that second Komusubi slot instead of Aoiyama.

And to be realistic, the ozeki run of Takayasu finally came to an end after three straight losses against maegashira.

[Morty]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

Agreed, I certainly consider Kaio to have been a successful long career ozeki though I also think it would have been better if he could have taken that final step into Yokozuna. It just wasn't meant to be and his career at Yokozuna would likely have been very short if they had promoted him the one time it might have been possible to do so. 

 

I reckon Kaio would have been promoted to Yok in most other eras except the one he happened to be active in. His record would have got Kise the rope recently - it definitely did for Kakuryu. Kaio had 35 different kimarite over his career, 58% wins with his top three kimarite. I would need to do heaps more research at this point to confirm my original thesis that adaptability is the key to Yokozuna-hood, but kaio seems to be right on the cusp of that. 

[Gurowake]

24 minutes ago, Tenshinhan said:

Most likely, Tamawashi will grab that second Komusubi slot instead of Aoiyama.

And to be realistic, the ozeki run of Takayasu finally came to an end after three straight losses against maegashira.

I was being realistic when I decided not to make a joke before this basho about how Goeido would win this yusho and leave Kisenosato as the only Ozeki without one.  Yes, Takayasu was likely just reverting to the mean and he'll have trouble managing double-digits again, not to say the 13 he probably needs, but stranger things just happened.

edit: Ok, Goeido getting 15 might not be all that much stranger, but I put Goeido on 8 before the tournament and Takayasu on 7, making 13 for Takayasu more likely.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Gurowake

[ScottyJoyJrBebe]

9 hours ago, Rocks said:

Endo gets 13-2, very nice. Kotoyuki gets 10 wins. WOOT!

HHHHUUUU!!!!

[Tenshinhan]

13 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

I was being realistic when I decided not to make a joke before this basho about how Goeido would win this yusho and leave Kisenosato as the only Ozeki without one.  Yes, Takayasu was likely just reverting to the mean and he'll have trouble managing double-digits again, not to say the 13 he probably needs, but stranger things just happened.

edit: Ok, Goeido getting 15 might not be all that much stranger, but I put Goeido on 8 before the tournament and Takayasu on 7, making 13 for Takayasu more likely.

By the numbers, he still has a chance to make it of course. But it won't happen. Okay, I would have said the same about a Goeido zensho yusho before the tournament, I am not sure what is more unlikely. But Takayasu simply didn't show ozeki sumo, especially in these last three days. Losing to some "random" maegashira guys like Aoiyama and Endo at this point of the basho (and he also has overall losing records against them) just shows that he doesn't have what it takes to become an ozeki. (funny enough I predicted him to become one at the beginning of the year 2016). I am disappointed that he didn't put up at least an 11-4 because now the task for November is too difficult regarding that Hakuho will come back (strong). I think you mentioned elsewhere that he needs 34 wins because of his fusensho in Nagoya what doesn't make the whole thing easier. So, he has to beat at least one Yokozuna and, by the way, everybody else.      

[dingo]

3 hours ago, luispereira said:

 

any translators?:P

Here's a quick and dirty translation -- I missed a few spots but that should be the gist of it:

 

R: First time to embrace the Emperors Cup. How did that feel?

G: Really...(couldn't quite make out)

R: you decided the yusho already yesterday, but did serious sumo today too, how was it?

G: yes, since the yusho was decided yesterday I thought my concentration might loosen a little, but I managed to refocus and do good sumo

R: this is your first yusho, and with 15 wins (audience goes wild)...

G: yes, I'm really happy

R: before the basho there were some worries about your kadoban, but you kept the rensho going. What were your thoughts when climbing on the dohyo?

G: I thought I have to focus every day on each separate bout, and that's what I did.

R: when did you become conscious about (the possibility of) yusho?

G: I started thinking about that from the 10th day

R: From this point did something change inside you?

G: That was something I hadn't experienced before... really I just aimed not to lose sight of my plan/system (of my own sumo)

R: For example what changed?

G: It was really a new experience for me, I've never been in yusho arasoi before. Having no previous experience to rely on, I did what I had to do, tried not to lose the feeling and rely on my own brand of sumo. That's how I spent every day.

R: I heard that the morning of the day the yusho was decided you didn't go to asageiko. How was it that time?

G: Right, well... I didn't do good sumo the previous day and was a bit nervous, so I rested my body.

R: The moment the yusho was decided, one could see from your expression the feelings welling up inside you. Thinking back on that, how was it?

G: The moment I yushoed I was beside myself with happiness, there's nothing else I could think. Bit by bit I am realising what had happened.

R: After the yusho a rare thing happened -- there was a Goeido call (might be wrong about that, but I'm guessing the fans shouted his name?)

G: I was really thankful.

R: You had a lot of hardship as well until now. What has changed in your sumo?

G: After all, I think managing to do my own style well helped a lot with the yusho.

R: Any concrete examples?

G: Getting a right hand grip, pushing my head in close.

R: This is the first zensho-yusho for a Osaka rikishi in 86 years. How do you feel about that?

G: I didn't really think about that during the basho, but I want to thank everyone in Osaka.

R: Your mother and your family were here during the yusho day and today as well. How did it feel to win the yusho in front of them?

G: Well, really good, yes.

R: It has been a long time since you entered makuuchi. You also had a hard time after getting to Ozeki. What was the hardest point?

G: Well, not being able to have a good result. I felt quite miserable about that.

R: How did you get over it?

G: Thanks to advice from my shisho and okamisan, I have them to thank.

R: With zensho yusho next basho will be a tsunatori basho. How do you feel about that?

G: I'm not thinking about that right now. Next basho I will again do my best.

R: A word for your fans?

G: Everyone, thank you for your passionate encouragement during these 15 days!

[ryafuji]

Goeido is the first Japanese rikishi to zensho yusho since Takanohana exactly 20 years ago. 

[Yubinhaad]

A short message on the Kataonami-beya website announces that the man with the biggest smile in ozumo, Tamaasuka, has retired. I'm a bit surprised as it's not like he's plummeted away from upper Makushita, but he's been doing this for 18 years now, so I guess he simply felt it was time to call it a day. No indication yet of whether he will be staying on as an oyakata.

Other early intai announcements include veteran Daitenyu, one of the survivors of Hatachiyama-beya, and Sadogatake-beya's Kotoninsei.