Basho Talk - Aki Basho 2016 +++ Spoiler Alert! +++

[Rocks]

11 minutes ago, Harry said:

Sadly I think having Hakuho away may have put even MORE pressure in Kise, "Hakuho is injured, now's your chance!". Kise just doesn't do well under pressure. At this point I think he is doomed to be a long serving ozeki which isn't a horrible think as I enjoyed Kaoi's long career but even he got yushos... will Kise ever get one in makuuchi now? I'm not sure he will. 

As far as the pressure you are probably right. Hakuho is the greatest ever but he is slowing down. He will win at most 3 yusho this year. That is fantastic but it still leaves 3 others that someone else won. I do not think he will win more than 3 next year and could even be less if injuries become persistent. Kisenosato is a year younger. He's healthier. He has only ever missed 1 bout do to injury in his career. He has the most makuuchi wins over the last 5 years next to Hakuho. Time and statistics are on his side. Kisenosato will eventually get a yusho IMO. Make Yokozuna? That's a different story.

[robnplunder]

I'd like to see Goeido go (no pun intended) 15-0.  This way, there will be less people saying he got the yusho b/c Hakuho wasn't there.  

[dingo]

8 hours ago, Jyuunomori said:

Kotokamatani is also in Makushita and is 5-1 he too has a chance to get 6-1 and be place considerably higher in the next banzuke. Only 18 years old, only 18 and he is also showing this much potential. Damn he is gonna be scary in 5 years when he matures more.

As it was mentioned earlier in this thread, 18 years old Kisenosato was in Makuuchi... 

[Bumpkin]

2 hours ago, Dwale said:

I can sum this one up succinctly: one of the best days of sumo I've ever seen! Yeah, I've only been watching on the regular for a few years- still. Amazing. And that staredown between Goeido and Harumafuji... I got chills. I was watching with my girlfriend and we were both just like, "Uh-oh, it's about to go down!" XD

 

Back in the day (the mid 1970's), they had stare downs all the time.  Wajima, Takanohana, Kaiketsu and Hasegawa.  Memories.

[Dwale]

6 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

Back in the day (the mid 1970's), they had stare downs all the time.  Wajima, Takanohana, Kaiketsu and Hasegawa.  Memories.

Oh, I wish I had been watching during Takanohana's career!

[Bumpkin]

1 hour ago, Dwale said:

Oh, I wish I had been watching during Takanohana's career!

And, I wish I had been watching during Takanohana's career!  The son, that is.

[orandashoho]

I was, and he was truly a great yokozuna. His comportment was dignified, his face unreadable. Such a shame he got plagued by injuries and had to retire early.

[ronnie]

14 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

 

And please call me Mike.

Only if you can Talk Sumo.

But can I call you Betty?

[Bumpkin]

The only way Goeido does not clinch the Yusho on Day 14 is if:  1) Endo defeats Takayasu, and 2) Goeido losses to Tamawashi.  If that were to happen, than should Goeido meet Endo on Day 15?

[rzombie1988]

1 hour ago, Bumpkin said:

And, I wish I had been watching during Takanohana's career!  The son, that is.

Don't know if I'm the only one, but they used to show basho marathons pretty regularly on ESPN2. Used to watch that and professional paintball all the time.

[RabidJohn]

2 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

Back in the day (the mid 1970's), they had stare downs all the time.  Wajima, Takanohana, Kaiketsu and Hasegawa.  Memories.

Watching the bulk of my sumo recently via Kintamayama's videos, which rarely show much of the shikiri, I was unaware that the stare down had become uncommon. It was a regular occurrence when I watched in the late 80s/early 90s. You saw it several times a day, always accompanied by a great reaction from the crowd. Chiyonofuji was such a master of it, I'm sure it was actually decisive in a good proportion of his bouts.

[Dapeng]

3 hours ago, Rocks said:

As far as the pressure you are probably right. Hakuho is the greatest ever but he is slowing down. He will win at most 3 yusho this year. That is fantastic but it still leaves 3 others that someone else won. I do not think he will win more than 3 next year and could even be less if injuries become persistent. Kisenosato is a year younger. He's healthier. He has only ever missed 1 bout do to injury in his career. He has the most makuuchi wins over the last 5 years next to Hakuho. Time and statistics are on his side. Kisenosato will eventually get a yusho IMO. Make Yokozuna? That's a different story.

If not for Asashooryu and Hakuho, there could have been several more yokozuna besides Haru and Kaku: Kaio, Chiyotaikai, Tochiazuma, Kotooshu, Baruto, Kise ......

[Rocks]

9 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

If not for Asashooryu and Hakuho, there could have been several more yokozuna besides Haru and Kaku: Kaio, Chiyotaikai, Tochiazuma, Kotooshu, Baruto, Kise ......

Which is why I'm okay with the Yokozuna qualifications being lowered somewhat in this era. To not do so would be like suggesting anyone who wasn't a NY Yankee during the 30s-50s doesn't belong in the MLB Hall of Fame.

[Bumpkin]

1 hour ago, Dapeng said:

If not for Asashooryu and Hakuho, there could have been several more yokozuna besides Haru and Kaku: Kaio, Chiyotaikai, Tochiazuma, Kotooshu, Baruto, Kise ......

Maybe, maybe not.  The fact remains that, during the Hakuho era, only Harumafuji (15-0 Y, 15-0 Y) and Kakuryu (14-1 D, 14-1 Y) have met the well established, two consecutive yusho or equivalent, standard for promotion.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Bumpkin

[Bumpkin]

1 hour ago, Rocks said:

Which is why I'm okay with the Yokozuna qualifications being lowered somewhat in this era. To not do so would be like suggesting anyone who wasn't a NY Yankee during the 30s-50s doesn't belong in the MLB Hall of Fame.

No. Not even close. Whenever you lower standards you water them down. 

Edited September 23, 2016 by Bumpkin

[Asashosakari]

A small selection from Day 13...

Sandanme vs Hattorizakura:

Quite possibly the longest mid-bout standoff I've ever seen:

Long bout is looooong... (4:36, no mizu-iri):

And a bout that was just plain entertaining:

 

[Rocks]

34 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

Maybe, maybe not.  The fact remains only Harumafuji (15-0 Y, 15-0 Y) and Kakuryu (14-1 D, 14-1 Y) have met the well established, two consecutive yusho or equivalent, standard for promotion.

Nevermind. I totally misread your post.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Rocks

[Harry]

Thanks, @Asashosakari

At least poor Hattorizakura allowed himself to put pushed onto his butt this time... not much fun for anyone involved, hopefully he is allowed to retire.

[Gurowake]

2 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

The only way Goeido does not clinch the Yusho on Day 14 is if:  1) Endo defeats Takayasu, and 2) Goeido losses to Tamawashi.  If that were to happen, than should Goeido meet Endo on Day 15?

If there's one time they break the normal soroibumi (last three matches of the tournament involving the top 6 sanyaku), this would be it - a direct match between the two people still in contention for the Yusho before Day 14, and Kotoshogiku's remaining matches pointless for his own ranking.  I still doubt they will do it though; the only times I am aware of that they have in the past are due to injuries making it impossible.  Endo is ranked really really low to be facing an Ozeki as well.  Even pretty low to be facing any sanyaku at all.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Gurowake

[Rocks]

It's clear Kyokuhikari is still in sumo for the chanko. 

[Gurowake]

2 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

Endo is ranked really really low to be facing an Ozeki as well.  Even pretty low to be facing any sanyaku at all.

Around 2 years ago I took data from the DB in attempts to determine the probability of each Makuuchi rank facing each other to help me build my pre-basho gaming prediction model.  I looked at the previous 11 years or so.  During that time, there was one m14w (ironically, Goeido in his Makuuchi debut) that faced a Yokozuna, Ozeki and Komusubi, along with one m16e that faced an Ozeki and Komusubi (Baruto the very next tournament).  Beyond those matches vs. YokOzeki, there were only six other sanyaku vs. m14 or lower matches.

[Asashosakari]

16 minutes ago, Harry said:

At least poor Hattorizakura allowed himself to put pushed onto his butt this time... not much fun for anyone involved, hopefully he is allowed to retire.

Shikihide-beya is presumably not a "the beatings will continue until morale improves"-style heya, but I really do wonder how he can even participate in practice in any meaningful way.

[bettega]

I almost feel an urge to protect  Hattorizakura... "you! bully sumo guy! get away from the small one!"

[Rocks]

I want to know how Hattori has failed to gain even a single pound. 

[Gurowake]

13 hours ago, Jyuunomori said:

Apparenly the creeping monster the past few basho's is Kizaki. He just won another Yusho and will overtake or take similar spot in the Makushita Banzuke with Ikegawa with 7-0 Yusho victory. Kizaki is one of the two rikishi who have beaten Ikegawa currently.

Kizaki will be around ms26.  If Ikegawa wins his last match, he'll be around ms41.