Nishikido situation; split from kyujo thread

[RabidJohn]

I'm not gonna click 'Like this' for that ^, cos I don't.

I do appreciate you posting it though, Akinomaki, so it's a thank you instead.

I used to like Mitoizumi...

Edited September 29, 2016 by RabidJohn

[Bumpkin]

Can anyone translate the article into English?  Can anyone confirm that this happened?  If Brody quit because of "kawaigari", why is this such a big deal?  I thought bullying was part of sumo?  What am I missing?

[Katooshu]

So they simply envied him because of his wife? Okay.....

Edited September 29, 2016 by Katooshu

[Gurowake]

4 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

Can anyone translate the article into English?  Can anyone confirm that this happened?  If Brody quit because of "kawaigari", why is this such a big deal?  I thought bullying was part of sumo?  What am I missing?

Bullying is "part of sumo" when its Japanese people doing it to another, and the ones being picked on don't have much to lose if they decide to quit.  Brodi made a major investment putting in the time and effort to get a spot in a sumo stable, and was at the mercy of those around him since he was barely acquainted with the culture.  It's a big deal because Brodi was a big deal.  He wasn't just some random kid from Canada - he had amateur success at a young age and had the potential to develop into a very strong rikishi if he had just been nurtured and dealt with appropriately by his shisho, instead of leaving him to be dealt with by his deshi who didn't have as much to gain from Brodi's development and had the potential to be overshadowed by him.  It's a sad example of human nature and the worst parts of Japanese culture.

[WAKATAKE]

No chance for growth or development in that sumo beya I see. Unfortunate that that is how Brody's career ended in the sport.

[Bumpkin]

Gurowake; by "big deal", I meant, why is this such a big secret?  Nishinoshima insinuated in May that his absence had something to do with Nishikido beya.  We all remember when Brodi tossed his opponent on top of his stable master breaking his shisho's leg.  If this lead to bullying, which led to Brodi quitting sumo, then why not tell us all about it.

[Morningstar]

The first rule of Fight Club is not Don't talk about Fight Club. That is only the first official rule. Rather it is Cover Your Ass. So when making public statements, do not state things that can be taken against you later. Rather spin things in the best way possible for yourself. Because as well all know, you can always walk them back with "clarifications".

[robnplunder]

7 hours ago, Gurowake said:

It's a big deal because Brodi was a big deal.  He wasn't just some random kid from Canada - he had amateur success at a young age and had the potential to develop into a very strong rikishi if he had just been nurtured and dealt with appropriately by his shisho, 

I've seen Brodi's matches from the internet sources.  He is a big guy but seems to be very slow.  And I know one can't teach speed.  I.e, I didn't see the potential you saw, and gave him a few more basho before he quits.   Sumo training is hard.  Unless one has an exceptional motivation, it isn't something a young kid from a foreign land can endure.  

[Ryoshishokunin]

"Isn't Bullying part of X" -- well, maybe.  That doesn't mean it should be, and it also covers everything from making the other guy wash your laundry to people literally dying.  Perhaps somewhere in between those things is where you want to draw the line.  

[Bumpkin]

3 hours ago, Ryoshishokunin said:

"Isn't Bullying part of X" -- well, maybe.  That doesn't mean it should be, and it also covers everything from making the other guy wash your laundry to people literally dying.  Perhaps somewhere in between those things is where you want to draw the line.  

It all depends on what "bullying" involves.  There is a line that should never be crossed.  One would hope.  I still don't understand why Nishinoshima, and others that know what happened, are sworn to secrecy.  Perhaps, one day, the truth will be told.  Perhaps, not.

[robnplunder]

2 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

There is a line that should never be crossed.

+1.  If such a bullying really happened, someone slept at the wheel.   I hope Brodi quit on his own accord b/c he found that sumo life isn't for him.

[Bumpkin]

27 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

+1.  If such a bullying really happened, someone slept at the wheel.   I hope Brodi quit on his own accord b/c he found that sumo life isn't for him.

Has Nishikido Oyakata been disciplined?  If something bad happened and he did nothing to prevent it, or wasn't even around, then shame on the Nihon Sumo Kyokai.  If, however, Brodi got injured and decided Ozumo wasn't for him, then tell us.  Is this too much to ask?

[Kintamayama]

3 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

 I still don't understand why Nishinoshima, and others that know what happened, are sworn to secrecy.  Perhaps, one day, the truth will be told.  Perhaps, not.

There is nothing to understand. They were not sworn to anything-they were asked not to make public what they know, as people close to Brodi and directly or indirectly involved in his entering sumo. So why should they go against those wishes? And what good would it do to you or me or anyone to find out "what really happened" other than to satisfy the curiosity aspect of a possibly "juicy" story? It's not like any of us here is planning to join a heya any time soon and  knowing "the truth" will benefit our new careers in some way..

Edited September 30, 2016 by Kintamayama

[Bumpkin]

1 minute ago, Kintamayama said:

There is nothing to understand. They were not sworn to anything-they were asked not to make public what they know, as people close to Brodi and directly or indirectly involved in his entering sumo. So why should they go against those wishes? and what good would it do to you or me or anyone to find out "what really happened" other than the gossip aspect of a juicy story? It's not like any of us here is planning to join a heya any time soon and  knowing "the truth" will benefit our new careers in some way..

True.  However, when Brodi joined it was all over the forum.  I wanted him to succeed.  I watched his matches on You Tube.  I just want to know what happened.  I can't be the only one.

[ryafuji]

Maybe now that Brodi is back in Canada he will give an interview at some point. We're certainly not going to hear anything from those still with connections to ozumo. Why would they risk jeopardizing their relationships with heya just to satisfy our curiosity?

Edited September 30, 2016 by ryafuji
typo

[Sumozumo]

4 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

True.  However, when Brodi joined it was all over the forum.  I wanted him to succeed.  I watched his matches on You Tube.  I just want to know what happened.  I can't be the only one.

Sometimes stories blowing up worldwide hurts the victim way more than the offenders. Sumo is already a strange thing for people not familiar ("Those pictures make me want to vomit" - our US based administrator on seeing pics of a sumo fight) and he gave up based on 'bullying' which sounds like elementary school on the surface. I can understand why Brodi might not want to make a huge deal about it, and just move on. He already got something he loved doing turned into a mess, no reason to give a bunch of people he doesn't know bad first impressions.

[inhashi]

7 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

...  I wanted him to succeed.  I watched his matches on You Tube.  I just want to know what happened.  I can't be the only one.

But the issue was nothing do with you.  If it was meant to be kept as a private matter it only involves those directly, namely Brodik Henderson.  It's none of anyone's business other than Brodi's.  

Edited October 1, 2016 by inhashi

[hamcornheinz]

9 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

True.  However, when Brodi joined it was all over the forum.  I wanted him to succeed.  I watched his matches on You Tube.  I just want to know what happened.  I can't be the only one.

And I want to know who killed Kennedy. but I realize that asking really doesn't do anything and thinking about it doesn't benefit me. 

[Morningstar]

2 minutes ago, hamcornheinz said:

And I want to know who killed Kennedy. but I realize that asking really doesn't do anything and thinking about it doesn't benefit me. 

Lee Harvey Oswald

[hamcornheinz]

6 minutes ago, Morningstar said:

Lee Harvey Oswald

But who hired him ;)

[Bumpkin]

2 hours ago, inhashi said:

But the issue was nothing do with you.  If it was meant to be kept as a private matter it only involves those directly, namely Brodik Henderson.  It's none of anyone's business other than Brodi's.  

Substitute "we" for "I", are you happy?  Brodi"s father was on this forum, touting his son's size and skill, asking for help getting into Ozumo.  That makes it a public matter and, in my opinion, our business.

[Orion]

7 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

Substitute "we" for "I", are you happy?  Brodi"s father was on this forum, touting his son's size and skill, asking for help getting into Ozumo.  That makes it a public matter and, in my opinion, our business.

I saw only his earliest bouts on the dohyo, and based on them  I can't understand how anybody could call him skillful -- even by North American amateur standards. He was certainly tall, but above a certain level that's rather a disadvantage. But Nish must have seen more, to go to the trouble of helping him to come here (having first tried to dissuade him, IIRC). Clearly there were various problems in the heya, affecting a number of them; and it would have been particularly hard for a foreigner still coming to grips with a different society. 

Orion

[Bumpkin]

Once again, I wanted Brodi to succeed.  If crimes were committed, I want those responsible to be punished.  If Nishikido knew, condoned or was negligent then he should also be punished.  I realize in a few years no one will know or care about this.  Let the record show, that I do care.  That's all.

[Rocks]

11 hours ago, Orion said:

I saw only his earliest bouts on the dohyo, and based on them  I can't understand how anybody could call him skillful -- even by North American amateur standards. He was certainly tall, but above a certain level that's rather a disadvantage. But Nish must have seen more, to go to the trouble of helping him to come here (having first tried to dissuade him, IIRC). Clearly there were various problems in the heya, affecting a number of them; and it would have been particularly hard for a foreigner still coming to grips with a different society. 

He was slow but it was hard for me to tell if that was lack of skill or just timidity. He seemed timid. If that was the case it can be overcome. Especially as he put on weight.

[Rocks]

11 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

 

Once again, I wanted Brodi to succeed.  If crimes were committed, I want those responsible to be punished.  If Nishikido knew, condoned or was negligent then he should also be punished.  I realize in a few years no one will know or care about this.  Let the record show, that I do care.  That's all.

 

I agree. The public doesn't need to know what happened. They do need to know what didn't happen. For instance is his injury and intai related to an incident? No? Fine athlete's get injured all the time, no biggie. But if that's the case why are individuals being publicly punished, cutting hair and essentially suspended and demoted because of it, for whatever happened? Why are people being punished with no explanation? This is how the Sumo Association operates? This is supposed to be nobody's business? Are young men who might be interested in joining the sport supposed to get a good impression from this? Frankly, the whole situation was handled very poorly IMHO.