Basho Talk - Natsu Basho 2016 +++ Spoiler Alert! +++

[Morty]

I was very nervous before the Kise-Hak match and now I am very disappointed. It's not done yet, but it nearly is. Bugger.

[Pandaazuma]

Best bout of the basho. Well done, Hakuho. If he wins, he deserves it. Hope he gets the zensho.

[Tsubame]

I wonder why just every possible ozeki yusho is connected with tsuna-hopes? Why not just enjoying the ozeki winning a yusho, instead of starting talking about future tsuna runs? Just relax and see someone else winning a yusho as our consistent long-runner Hakuho.

Not every ozeki is ready (or worthily) for the yokozunahood. But a lot more ozekis could / should win yushos.

Going for the tsuna is not the mandatory second step after winning a yusho as ozeki. That always puzzles me a bit.

[ALAKTORN]

Hakuhō–Kisenosato was amazing, but I really liked Shōdai vs. Myōgiryū today too.

[Asashosakari]

I wonder why just every possible ozeki yusho is connected with tsuna-hopes?

Because the only way it could not be connected would require the yusho-winning ozeki to say, "Oh by the way, folks, I'm definitely not planning to get more than 9 wins next time"?

Going for the tsuna is not the mandatory second step after winning a yusho as ozeki. That always puzzles me a bit.

Of course it's mandatory, because anything else would make a mockery of the competition. Succeeding isn't mandatory, but that's something completely different.

[Dapeng]

In my opinion, if Kise wins the remaining two, although not yusho, he is qualified for yokozuna promotion. Hakuho is the greatest rikishi of all time. It's not a shame to lose to Hakuho and you can't require a rikishi to be as good as Hakuho to be qualified for yokozuna promotion.

[Kishinoyama]

In my opinion, if Kise wins the remaining two, although not yusho, he is qualified for yokozuna promotion. Hakuho is the greatest rikishi of all time. It's not a shame to lose to Hakuho and you can't require a rikishi to be as good as Hakuho to be qualified for yokozuna promotion.

As others have said, I can't see them promoting Kisenosato without him winning a yusho.

[hamcornheinz]

by the way, again, no one can stand against Kakuryu's morozashi. The man is an understated BEAST.

[Katooshu]

Damn, I thought Kise had it for a moment there.

[Gernobono]

by the way, again, no one can stand against Kakuryu's morozashi. The man is an understated BEAST.

for me it looked more like harumafuji was dragging kakuryu around than kakuryu pushing his opponent

[hamcornheinz]

by the way, again, no one can stand against Kakuryu's morozashi. The man is an understated BEAST.

for me it looked more like harumafuji was dragging kakuryu around than kakuryu pushing his opponent

he was trying to get a throw off, since you're not gonna get a pushout from that position. He was off balance from the moment Kakuryu grabbed that morozashi.

[Dwale]

Let's not give Hakuho the yusho just yet. There's always a chance.

[RabidJohn]

hmm. nice. But did they agree before the video started? was there some sort of language, nodding, signaling?

In the post-match interview one of them (can't remember which) said that he looked into the other's eyes and saw he was ready to go, so they went.

Back on subject, I thought Kise was terrific today. Yeah, close is no cigar, but that was excellent Sumo against the GOAT, and he so nearly had him.

Interestingly, Hakuho had to fall back on what we already know he is outstanding at. Is it possible his apparent change of style recently has less to do with injuries and more with him keeping himself interested/motivated? You know, sort of "This Basho I are mostly doing oshizumo" (with apologies to The Fast Show's 'Jesse's diets' strand, and to everyone who's never seen The Fast Show!).

Edited May 20, 2016 by RabidJohn

[Kintamayama]

I do disagree with Kintamayama that Ichinojo has indeed improved. It's just that he has some many holes in his game that fixing two of them still leaves a dozen open ones. He has done some acceptable moves this basho but against a hornet like Yoshikaze he was helpless.

I actually said Ichinojou is the same old Ichinojou and I don't get why people say he improved..

[Kintamayama]

I'd say many of the medical experts on this forum now need to confess they were wrong about Endo's knee.

.I can't remember where I read it a few days ago (comment section on one of Kinta's videos maybe), but supposedly Endo said on one of the broadcasts that he feels his knees are okay on the dohyo, but that he has regular discomfort the rest of the time at the moment.

Backstage reporter on NHK said Endou said this after his match.

[Katooshu]

I think Ichinojo is a good example of how apparent 'improvement' can just be a function of competing at a lower rank. He was at his lowest makuuchi rank ever in March, after spending 8 basho ranked no lower than M4, and was facing a significantly weaker standard of opposition than we're used to seeing him against; it can be easy to think he's gotten better, when in reality it's just a case of him being able to regularly defeat lower ranked opponents with the stuff that doesn't cut it against the top rikishi.

Similarly, someone like Aoiyama picks up a good number of wins and doesn't look nearly as bumbling when he's against mid-maegashira opposition rather than Y and O.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Katooshu

[hamcornheinz]

hmm. nice. But did they agree before the video started? was there some sort of language, nodding, signaling?

In the post-match interview one of them (can't remember which) said that he looked into the other's eyes and saw he was ready to go, so they went.

what did the ref yell? It surprised me how unsurprised he was, seems like he knew it was coming.

[wuli]

what did the ref yell? It surprised me how unsurprised he was, seems like he knew it was coming.

that's the fun part- sometimes the gyoji is caught flatfooted, and the jaw drops for a second,

other times, gyoji is right with it and just starts hollering, like it is all routine

[robnplunder]

Damn, I thought Kise had it for a moment there.

Me, too. But the end result was predictable. Kise looked a bit shaky getting to his 12-0 record whereas Hak looked absolutely dominant. Hak is 95% there for his two Yusho in a row.

Kotoyuki is for real. He may be the next to earn the Ozeki ranking.

I am disappointed by Satoyama & Ura's latest losses. Would love to see Satoyama in Makuuchi. Will likely see Ura (and hopefully Satoyama) in Makuuchi in 2 - 3 bashos later. Sato looked good today OTOH. Juryo Yusho just became more interesting than Makuuchi where Hak has all but locked it up.

Edited May 20, 2016 by robnplunder

[RabidJohn]

... in reality it's just a case of him being able to regularly defeat lower ranked opponents with the stuff that doesn't cut it against the top rikishi.

Ikioi is another good example of this. He yo-yos between double digit wins at mid-Maegashira and double digit losses at joi/Sanyaku.

[rzombie1988]

Thoughts:

- Quick, how has Hakuho started every tachi ai this basho? If you guessed with a slap, you were right. What does Kise do knowing this? Takes a slap. Not smart. He fought well and honestly overpowered Hakuho at times but Hak's movement was great and Kise just couldn't react quick enough. I'm not sure why he wasn't prepared for the slap. Very disappointing. He's been fixing his mistakes early in the last two bashos but he's just not getting it done. He needed to be the one winning that basho Kotoshogiku took.

- Surprised to see Ichinojo beat out Kaisei since I thought Kaisei had been better as of late. It was nice to see Ich actually move around and try to swing Kaisei, which is something we haven't seen him do for a while.

- Go home Terunofuji.

- Kotoyuki looked good today with some straight up nasty hits.

- Osuna must be injured again. He looks drastically different than the terminator from last basho,

And to discuss Ikioi from above, his problem to me is that he needs to gain weight. I think it would help him a lot. He also needs to get nasty from time to time as he is way too nice.

Edited May 20, 2016 by rzombie1988

[hamcornheinz]

Thoughts:

- Quick, how has Hakuho started every tachi ai this basho? If you guessed with a slap, you were right. What does Kise do knowing this? Takes a slap. Not smart. He fought well and honestly overpowered Hakuho at times but Hak's movement was great and Kise just couldn't react quick enough. I'm not sure why he wasn't prepared for the slap. Very disappointing. He's been fixing his mistakes early in the last two bashos but he's just not getting it done. He needed to be the one winning that basho Kotoshogiku took.

He hasn't started every tachiai this basho with a slap. No more than usual. Also if you think you can just block a slap, you haven't done any martial arts before...

[rzombie1988]

Thoughts:

- Quick, how has Hakuho started every tachi ai this basho? If you guessed with a slap, you were right. What does Kise do knowing this? Takes a slap. Not smart. He fought well and honestly overpowered Hakuho at times but Hak's movement was great and Kise just couldn't react quick enough. I'm not sure why he wasn't prepared for the slap. Very disappointing. He's been fixing his mistakes early in the last two bashos but he's just not getting it done. He needed to be the one winning that basho Kotoshogiku took.

He hasn't started every tachiai this basho with a slap. No more than usual. Also if you think you can just block a slap, you haven't done any martial arts before...

His last three matches have almost all started with slaps. Chances are, he's going to continue it...

You can do a lot of things. Every move has a counter to it. Don't get slapped, start further behind the line, push his arm out further like he did vs Kotoyuki, hook his arm with yours, hit the other side, put up a block, tons of things you can do.

Edited May 20, 2016 by rzombie1988

[Asashosakari]

I actually thought Kise looked over-prepared for Hakuho's tachiai and consequently was way too slow out of the blocks. Kise doesn't have Giku's steam train tachiai, but he is still rarely forced to give up ground right at the start, yet against Hakuho he was.

[Benevolance]

Let's not give Hakuho the yusho just yet.

I already gave Hak the yusho around day 5, when his only serious opposition both had 1 loss each.