Basho Talk - Aki 2015 +++ Spoiler alert! +++

[grigorian]

Day 1 yorikiri M1e Aoiyama Day 2 yorikiri K1w Okinoumi Day 3 yorikiri M2e Osunaarashi Day 4 yorikiri M1w Yoshikaze Day 5 yorikiri M3e Sadanoumi Day 6 yorikiri K1e Tochinoshin Day 7 yorikiri M2w Sadanofuji Day 8 kotenage S1w Myogiryu Day 9 yorikiri M4e Ichinojo Day 10 uwatenage M5e Tamawashi

It seems to me, Terunofuji prefers to dance closely, and only with Myogiryu and Tamawashi he had to work harder.

[luispereira]

I like goeido..but boy, this kid sucks at being ozeki :s ....

[luispereira]

you can do it Ikioi....

[Akinomaki]

Ichinojo is 1.5 years younger than Terunofuji and has 2.5 years less in sumo.
Last year hardly anybody else than insiders imagined Terunofuji to become ozeki already in his 2nd makuuchi year.
Look at his first 6 basho in makuuchi: m10 8-7, m9 9-6, m6 9-6, m1 6-9, m3 8-7, m2 8-7

Much superior Ichinojo in contrast: m10 13-2, s 8-1, s 6-9, m1 9-6, k1 8-7, s1 4-11

In his first year in makuuchi 4 out of 6 in sanyaku, already half of the year sekiwake!

If he manages to get his weight under control, he'll be ozeki in no time.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Akinomaki

[Kotogouryuu]

It's interesting that Kotoshogiku has a habit of beating Kisenosato, seeing the latter is usually regarded as a better ozeki. Kisenosato was late to start, and not even he can stop the fully charged bumpetybump.

[Asashosakari]

Ichinojo is 1.5 years younger than Terunofuji and has 2.5 years less in sumo.

Last year hardly anybody else than insiders imagined Terunofuji to become ozeki already in his 2nd makuuchi year.

Look at his first 6 basho in makuuchi: m10 8-7, m9 9-6, m6 9-6, m1 6-9, m3 8-7, m2 8-7

Much superior Ichinojo in contrast: m10 13-2, s 8-1, s 6-9, m1 9-6, k1 8-7, s1 4-11

Except for the fact that Terunofuji actually made visible progress during that year, while Ichinojo has - if anything - gone backwards...

[Morty]

I think Tamawashi would have won that if he hadn't gassed out after about nine seconds and four consecutive flurries. One more ferocious flurry like that might have got him over he line. But you could see the moment where he ran out of steam - he tried again and had nothing left in the tank and then the patient Teronofuji just waited him out. The most impressive thing about Teronofuji is the mental strength, the patience and the calmness.

[Adil]

Osunaarshi vs Okinoumi: What a crushing victory! Reminded me of a similar victory by Harumafuji vs Kisenosato; I believe it was Hatsu of this year, and Harumafuji's victory over Kise in the Haru basho of this year was also somewhat similar, but slightly less humiliating. There should be a new name for this kimarite: Chokeslam-o-toshi

[Jakusotsu]

Any idea why they didn't save Toyohibiki vs. Shohozan for later?

[ALAKTORN]

Ōsunaarashi was fierce today. Looked pretty cool.

Ichinojō was saying only animals weighted over 200kg, but he just keeps getting bigger. I see no will to do well in him, if he had a better mentality he’d have already reached ōzeki.

[Mongolith]

Damn what an effort by Tamawashi had fuji shaken up but nice recovery by fuji staying calm and eventually getting a grip. The chug chug is alive and good to see him once again dominating kise like he did before he started breaking down. Honestly just hope this is the start of the end for Goeido as he is making rank and file look like Ozeki rather than the other way around. Now if Tochi was less of a headcase we would have a damn fine replacement in the wings.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Mongolith

[Seijakuzan]

It's interesting that Kotoshogiku has a habit of beating Kisenosato, seeing the latter is usually regarded as a better ozeki. Kisenosato was late to start, and not even he can stop the fully charged bumpetybump.

Kotoshogiku went 15 out of their first 23 matchups, when both of them were maegashira (mostly), and I'd hardly call 31-26 a 'habit' of beating Kisenosato anyway. It's one of the great rivalries, like Akebono v Takanohana or Asashoryu v Hakuho, but between two generally disappointing ozeki. A step above Aminishiki v Toyonoshima's 21-20 rivalry.

On Endo ever making yokozuna - I think the odds are 5% or less, I just think he has more of the physical and mental skills than Ichinojo at this point. He'd obviously have to put on some weight and get healthier, the latter of which also is probably the main thing currently keeping Oosunaarashi from making it to Ozeki in the next year or two. I can't think of the last sleepy giant that made it to Ozeki or Yokozuna without a killer instinct. Maybe Miyabiyama? I missed his prime, so I don't remember what he was like as an Ozeki. He wasn't one for long, either.

[Gernobono]

Any idea why they didn't save Toyohibiki vs. Shohozan for later?

because it is only juryo and even the kyokai does not care? B-)

[kotoshikona]

I can't think of the last sleepy giant that made it to Ozeki or Yokozuna without a killer instinct.Maybe Miyabiyama? I missed his prime, so I don't remember what he was like as an Ozeki. He wasn't one for long, either.

Miyabiyama had a very strong oshi-sumo style.

Edited September 22, 2015 by kotoshikona

[Jakusotsu]

Miyabiyama had a very strong oshi-sumo style.

...and a severe problem with gravity.

[Asashosakari]

I can't think of the last sleepy giant that made it to Ozeki or Yokozuna without a killer instinct. Maybe Miyabiyama? I missed his prime, so I don't remember what he was like as an Ozeki. He wasn't one for long, either.

Arguably Takanonami, although I guess he was a giant in height only. And while he wasn't a Dejima-like freight train, I wouldn't consider Miyabiyama passive/sleepy in demeanor on the dohyo, at least when he was ozeki...that guy could go, he just had a lot of holes in his sumo that got exploited once he was no longer in peak physical condition.

In a way prime Miyabiyama didn't look all that large actually, compared to his late-career version. (Even though there were only about 10-15 kg difference between them...probably replaced quite a bit of muscle with extra fat as he got older and slower.)

Jakusotsu already made the comparison a little while ago, right now Ichinojo looks like the second coming of Kotonowaka - tall, built like a fridge and lacking aggression. Ichinojo's somewhat more talented and (for now) younger, but...I'm always a bit skeptical when so much of what we might consider "talent" is actually bundled up in a rikishi's physique. You could stick Moriurara's (lack of) aptitude for sumo into a 190 cm / 170 kg body and you probably have a guy who's good enough for low sandanme instead of somebody who struggles in low jonidan. Conversely, take 25 kg away from Sadanofuji and he might not even be of juryo caliber right now. And Ichinojo's physique is pretty much maxed out, so that's one major area where (unlike nearly every other 22-year-old in sumo) he has almost no room to improve, and it's all going to come down to improvements in technique, mindset and experience for him.

[Kotogouryuu]

It's interesting that Kotoshogiku has a habit of beating Kisenosato, seeing the latter is usually regarded as a better ozeki. Kisenosato was late to start, and not even he can stop the fully charged bumpetybump.

Kotoshogiku went 15 out of their first 23 matchups, when both of them were maegashira (mostly), and I'd hardly call 31-26 a 'habit' of beating Kisenosato anyway. It's one of the great rivalries, like Akebono v Takanohana or Asashoryu v Hakuho, but between two generally disappointing ozeki. A step above Aminishiki v Toyonoshima's 21-20 rivalry.

Yeah, I changed my wording a few times, should have changed it once more. It's just that there have been yokozuna talks around Kisenosato, but obviously not Kotoshogiku, so the fact that Koto leads their rivalry at all is a bit surprising, that's all.

[Gambitfan]

Did...did Osunaarashi just WWE chokeslam a fool? Because I think he did.

[CT3*]

I'm impressed with Terunofuji and like the excitement that he brings. But my enthusiasm is a bit tempered because I think some of his success is based on his size/strength moreso than technique; and this current Ozeki crew may be making him look a bit better than he is (at this point).

But he's young and has time to improve his technique and will undoubtedly gain more experience. If he remains injury free, he will likely remain a force to be reckoned with for some time.

Edited September 22, 2015 by CT3*

[Tsubame]

It's interesting that Kotoshogiku has a habit of beating Kisenosato, seeing the latter is usually regarded as a better ozeki. Kisenosato was late to start, and not even he can stop the fully charged bumpetybump.

It is easy to understand, if you believe into the OBSC. Kotoshogiku need more help to save his ozeki rank, so it is only "naturally" that he wins a little bit more often against Kisenosato.

;-)

[Asashosakari]

It is easy to understand, if you believe into the OBSC. Kotoshogiku need more help to save his ozeki rank, so it is only "naturally" that he wins a little bit more often against Kisenosato.

;-)

Except for the fact that Giku's record while kadoban is 1-2 against Kisenosato...

[lackmaker]

A more complete picture would include when he's also in danger of going kadoban.

[Asashosakari]

A more complete picture would include when he's also in danger of going kadoban.

My impression of even the worst OBSC times of the last 15 years is that they don't pull any punches in those situations, only "when it counts". Let's put it this way: Who won yesterday, 6-2 Kotoshogiku or 4-4 Goeido? Both had roughly the same schedule remaining afterwards.

[lackmaker]

Fair enough but maybe your example is too early in the basho to illicit OBSC. How about if Geeku is on day 13 or 14 and in trouble does Kise "help out"?

[Asashosakari]

I couldn't help it. The complete list of tournaments in which Kotoshogiku and Kisenosato met, while: both were ozeki, neither was kadoban, and at least one of them had fewer than 8 wins prior to the bout. The first record is Giku's after the bout, the one in brackets is Kisenosato's.

2012.01, Day 10: lost, 5-5 (9-1)

2012.05, Day 9: lost, 7-2 (8-1)

2013.01, Day 10: lost, 6-4 (8-2)

2013.03, Day 13: lost, 7-6 (8-5)

2013.09, Day 10: lost, 6-4 (8-2)

2014.05, Day 10: lost, 5-5 (9-1) [Giku final record 5-10]

2014.07, Day 10: won, 9-1 (7-3)

2014.11, Day 8: lost, 3-5 (7-1) [Giku final record 6-9]

2015.09, Day 10: won, 8-2 (7-3)

Edited September 22, 2015 by Asashosakari