Basho Talk - Aki 2015 +++ Spoiler alert! +++

[orandashoho]

Good sumo is good sumo, whatever the nationality. I was a great fan of Musashimaru in his day. You can't argue against the right of Hakuho to be Y1E, and I like Harumafuji's cleverness and speed besting much heavier opponents. Terunofuji is showing the poise of a champion -- unruffled, intimidating, unbudgeable, as solid as a rock. He doesn't need tricks or gimmicks to make an impression. The results will determine what his rank wil be, not his nationality.

[torquato]

whatever the nationality

Thumbs up!

[Morty]

Teronofuji looks like he has everything he needs for Yok status. He is an absolute powerhouse and that strength gets him out of some precarious situations like it did with Myogiryu. I can't see many others getting out of that predicament in the way Teronofuji did. My only concern would be that has had problems with his back in the past (I remember reading somewhere) and his power style is the sort that could lead to more back problems down the line. Lifting 150kg men the way he does is not a recipe for good back health in the future.

Ichinojo I just don't see it, at least not in the short to medium term. He has had the same trajectory as the other big hopefuls who have flown up through the ranks in the last couple of years (Chiyotairyu, Jokoryu, Endo, Osunaraashi) - made a big splash to start with, followed by a rapid levelling out once everyone works out how to deal with them. He has the physical talents (so long as he can stop putting on weight) but he needs to develop an all round game to go with it. He may do that but he also may not. Unlike the others mentioned above Teronofuji came up slowly, developing all the time, and importantly, clearly has the mental game of a champion, something I don't necessarily see in the others (except maybe Endo).

[grigorian]

Please, somebody send Tochiozan a psychologist, quickly... This is unreal.

[kuroimori]

Chokiozan got lost in a big sandstorm.

[kuroimori]

Please, somebody send Tochiozan a psychologist, quickly... This is unreal.

Chokyshould ask Kiseif he wants to join him....

[Doitsuyama]

Ichinojo I just don't see it, at least not in the short to medium term. He has had the same trajectory as the other big hopefuls who have flown up through the ranks in the last couple of years (Chiyotairyu, Jokoryu, Endo, Osunaraashi) - made a big splash to start with, followed by a rapid levelling out once everyone works out how to deal with them.

I object here. The "trajectory" is determined mainly by age, which is a factor you conveniently omit here. Let me inform you that Ichinojo is a lot younger than Chiyotairyu, Jokoryu and Endo - no comparison there. Osunaarashi is comparable, but same trajectory? Lets see:

Osunaarashi: Juryo debut at 21.5m, 10-5, 10-5, Makuuchi debut at 21.9m, 7-8 at M15w

Ichinojo: Juryo debut at 21.1m, 11-4, 13-2, Makuuchi debut at 21.5m, 13-2 at M10e

Sorry, but Ichinojo's trajectory was massively different with 37-8 in his first three sekitori basho, which by the way is the all-time record. Certainly such trajectory means little as the wall can hit one at any time on the way to the highest rank, as exactly this record list of mostly non-yokozunae illustrates nicely, which probably is your valid point. Still, putting Ichinojo in the same sentence with Jokoryu and Chiyotairyu, what can I say...

[Asashosakari]

Speaking of age: Before the basho I was 99% convinced that Daieisho, talented as he might be, won't be ready for primetime yet, but it looks like he just might defy my expectation of a quick trip back to juryo.

[Kotogouryuu]

Homarefuji and Ikioi gave us a lesson on how to counter a henka. Especially Tokitenku completely gave up his balance for the side step, and even Aminishiki seemed weaponless when Ikioi managed to stand firm. Good stuff.

[Seijakuzan]

Ikioi did well to react quickly. One more step before he attempts that throw and I think he loses by yorikiri/oshidashi.

[egparis18]

Terunofuji is really good.

yea, he will be a good yok.. besides him, who you guys think will be the next 1/2 yokozunas?

72nd Yokozuna=Terunofuji

73rd Yokozuna=Kisenosato (Wishful)

73rd Yokozuna=Ichinojo (Realistic)

I don't see Ichinojo ever making it until after Hakuho and Harumafuji both retire, and even then only if no other comparable talent comes along in the next 5 years. With a little more strength and technique, Oosuna will distance him over the next year. Endo is only a couple of years older and still has plenty of time, and even Tochinoshin is only 27. I see Ichinojo filling Okinoumi's shoes as the talented but perennial disappointment.

Although I see your point of Osunaarashi and Endo as candidates, I thoroughly believe its just a matter of time with Ichinojo, as this very basho is showing. His loss to Kakuryu was hard fought, and that win over Tochi(Choki)ozan honestly surprised me. Will he have to wait? Probably. Will he get overshadowed? Perhaps. Will he be a Yokozuna? I think so.

Well said. Patience pays.

[Adil]

Aminishiki has never been averse to a henka here and there, but this basho, he has had three already: day 1 vs Tokoshoryu, day 8 vs Endo and day 9 vs Ikioi. At his age, and with the condition of his knees (especially after that knee crush he had in Haru this year), he could be forgiven for sprinkling the odd henka here and there, but I sure hope he doesn't make it a permanent habit of employing too many henka every basho. I enjoy his bouts very much. I don't like too many pulls, but I sure do like Aminishiki's: He doesn't do the kind of pulls where guys move their outward facing palms down, bring them up and down again in quick succession in vague hopes of getting a hatakikomi or a hikiotoshi. He plants his hand(s) firmly on the opponent's neck or shoulders and wrenches them with all his might while backing away, making the dohyo look much bigger than it is.

[dingo]

Kakuryu has his work cut out for him. The only yokozuna left in the basho, chasing the young and upcoming talent by one win. If there ever was a good time to show all his doubters that he's real yokozuna material then this is it.

Edited September 21, 2015 by dingo

[Mongolith]

Kise and tochi could not be more dissapointing if they tried. Geeku looked great steamrolling a pathetic Goeido. Honestly don't see the Endo hype. Undersized, not very strong, no signature style, and run over once he faced the joi uninjured. Now he comes back from a major knee injury and he is a a future hope for the top 2 ranks? At least with guys like okinumi/Shin/ichi/Osu they got size/strength to get hyped about.

[Adil]

Teronofuji looks like he has everything he needs for Yok status.

I mean, like, Terunofuji is OK, but do you think he could perhaps one day possibly be as good as the mighty Gagamaru?

Morty, Posted 10 March 2015 - 18:00: If Gaga did what he did today every day he'd be a Yok by now.

I still haven't stopped laughing at that one! Sorry Morty, just being cheeky.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Adil

[Harry]

Long overdue shikona change? 栃煌山→栃窒息山

[ScreechingOwl]

There are only four rikishi presently in makuuchi I can envision even having the possibility of becoming yokozuna. They are, with their present age and my estimate of their likelihood of attaining that target:

23 years old: 99% Terunofuji (It would pretty much take a life threatening injury or illness to have him not reach yokozuna)

22 years old: 50% Ichinojo (he's already hard to beat for a lot of rikishi because of his body and weight. Add some more skill and....)

23 years old: 33% Osunaarashi (he's got the strength and spirit (witness Nagoya 2015); he'll learn more technique, but health?

29 years old: 10% Kisenosato (people have become yokozuna older, but time is dwindling rapidly - he may be closer to 5% now)

I can't see anyone else even coming close. Endo is a nice rikishi, but I'd rank him ability-wise as another Homasho, and Homasho never made sekiwake, While I wouldn't be surprised if Endo made sekiwake - in a couple of years, I can't see him making it to ozeki unless he improves greatly, and his style leaves him open to injury.

Edited September 21, 2015 by ScreechingOwl

[Vir4030]

Right off the Tachiai, Terunofuji reaches up and slaps Ichinojo on the face. Did you guys see that?

https://youtu.be/zOCMjhlIMog?t=8m28s (link for convenience - it's his near hand)

It seemed to me to be some sort of psychological thing. I feel like Ichinojo always seems to be asleep a little bit, so maybe I'm reading into that.

Edit:

I don't see Ichinojo ever making it until after Hakuho and Harumafuji both retire

after who retires? :-)

Edited September 21, 2015 by Vir4030

[kuroimori]

Right off the Tachiai, Terunofuji reaches up and slaps Ichinojo on the face. Did you guys see that?

(link for convenience - it's his near hand)

It seemed to me to be some sort of psychological thing. I feel like Ichinojo always seems to be asleep a little bit, so maybe I'm reading into that.

It is a common tachiai technique called harite = open handed strike at the opponent's face

[Tenshinhan]

Right off the Tachiai, Terunofuji reaches up and slaps Ichinojo on the face. Did you guys see that?

(link for convenience - it's his near hand)

It seemed to me to be some sort of psychological thing. I feel like Ichinojo always seems to be asleep a little bit, so maybe I'm reading into that.

It is a common tachiai technique called harite = open handed strike at the opponent's face

And especially Terunofuji does it quite often...

[rzombie1988]

I like Ichinojo and was originally a big fan but he's not getting to Yokozuna anytime soon. I don't even see him getting Ozeki at his current state. You can just tell he is Charmin soft mentally. He loses so many matches before it even starts. He doesn't use his size to his advantage, he has no burst, he seems to be weaker strength wise than most of the other wrestlers and he's not skilled technically. I think it's honestly sad to watch him and I can't believe his coach even lets him out there sometimes. He'd be in Makushita if he were of normal size.

Next Yokozuna's:

1) Terunofuji. By current standards, he should be Yokozuna if he wins this one. He's already the best Ozeki.

2) Someone who isn't in the top division yet

3) Maybe a Tochinoshin or Osunaarashi if they learn to work with the belt more and get better technically.

Edited September 21, 2015 by rzombie1988

[Gurowake]

2) Someone who isn't in the top division yet

Mitakeumi was on the same career records as Ichinojo's first 3 basho coming in, and only slightly behind the pace in this basho. He definitely won't debut as high as Ichinojo and thus it's rather unlikely he'll have his second Makuuchi basho in sanyaku, but he's not a big fat blob. From what (little) I've seen he's like Shohozan and Yoshikaze, only a few cm taller and 10kg heavier. He's not winning solely because his opponents don't have the strength to move him.

We also don't have any idea about Daiki's potential either; he also won multiple amateur tournaments, but too early in his college career to get MsTD.

[Yangnomazuma]

I like Ichinojo and was originally a big fan but he's not getting to Yokozuna anytime soon. I don't even see him getting Ozeki at his current state. You can just tell he is Charmin soft mentally. He loses so many matches before it even starts. He doesn't use his size to his advantage, he has no burst, he seems to be weaker strength wise than most of the other wrestlers and he's not skilled technically. I think it's honestly sad to watch him and I can't believe his coach even lets him out there sometimes. He'd be in Makushita if he were of normal size.

Next Yokozuna's:

1) Terunofuji. By current standards, he should be Yokozuna if he wins this one. He's already the best Ozeki.

2) Someone who isn't in the top division yet

3) Maybe a Tochinoshin or Osunaarashi if they learn to work with the belt more and get better technically.

I'd have to agree that Ichinojo just won't quite make it. To me, he's the second coming of Takanonami. Big body, good skills, but not enough consistent TOP level skill to climb that mountain.

[specialweek 2]

Why hasn't the west to east positioning of Kakuryu not happened as suggested by Asashosakari on day 2/

Edited September 22, 2015 by specialweek 2

[lackmaker]

I would have thought that Ichinojo's rather ponderous movement will hold back his progression. It makes him too defensive,the ability for sudden explosive moves are a real asset at the top level.