Trivia bits

[Gurowake]

Oho looks poised to start a second stint at Sekiwake without having ever been Komusubi.  This has also been done by the following rikishi in the 6 basho era:

Asahikuni
Kotokaze
Tochiakagi (actually managed THREE stints at Sekiwake before ever being Komusubi)
Daijuyama
Terao
Takanosho (who also was the last rikishi to make Sekiwake just once before ever being Komusubi prior to Oho doing it recently)

And technically Terunofuji, though due to being promoted rather than being demoted in between.

At first I thought it was going to be much rarer, as the nearly the first page of results of all the Sekiwake promotions in this time period had no one promoted to Sekiwake while having highest prior rank maegashira had done it, but then the first four on the list all did it with no one else in this situation not doing it.  So now that we've had two in a row, it looks like a rather streaky phenomenon, with only Terao not part of a streak among those whose first stint ended in demotion.

https://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&showhighest=on&form1_year=>1955&form2_rank=s&form2_debutr=on&offset=50

Edited October 15 by Gurowake

[Asashosakari]

Special mention to Hasegawa who holds the sole all-time record of five direct promotions from maegashira to sekiwake (out of 12 sanyaku promotions altogether).

[Jakusotsu]

This may have been discussed already (apologies): Who was the last Yokozuna before Onosato without make-koshi before promotion? Terukuni, or Musashiyama, or neither?

[Gurowake]

10 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

This may have been discussed already (apologies): Who was the last Yokozuna before Onosato without make-koshi before promotion? Terukuni, or Musashiyama, or neither?

Terukuni had a MK in Juryo.  I checked everyone else back to Musashiyama and found at least one MK before promotion.  The closest after that was Musashimaru, who had one lower division MK but none as a sekitori before hitting Yokozuna, which was quite an amazing streak considering how long he was Ozeki.

[Gurowake]

https://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=3661 is the most recent career-high Ozeki I found that was promoted to Ozeki without a prior MK in the historical record depending on how you count a 2-1-2a, but that's hardly saying much.  He could easily have had a lower division MK outside the historical record.

[Jakusotsu]

13 hours ago, Gurowake said:

Terukuni had a MK in Juryo.

Oopsie - didn't spot that 6-7.

[Reonito]

Aonishiki's 44 wins in his first 4 Makuuchi basho is the highest total in the six-basho era, and the second-highest ever, trailing only Terukuni in 1939. Even 40+ is very rare, previously accomplished only by Taiho (41), Hakuho (43), and Onosato (43).

Edited November 8 by Reonito

[Oskanohana]

27 minutes ago, Reonito said:

Aonishiki's 44 wins in his first 4 Makuuchi basho is the highest total in the six-basho era, and the second-highest ever, trailing only Terukuni in 1939. Even 40+ is very rare, previously accomplished only by Taiho (41), Hakuko (43), and Onosato (43).

Takerufuji got to 42 if we omit his 2nd basho full kyujo. So he got to 40+ in his first 4 appearances really. I was wondering if there was some madman who had a bad debut basho and a demotion to juryo and then lit makuuchi up when he got back, but I cannot find a way to try to query that.

Also, big Hakuko fan here 

[Reonito]

5 minutes ago, Oskanohana said:

Also, big Hakuko fan here 

Surprisingly, that hasn't been used as a shikona, though there is a Kakuho

[Reonito]

10 minutes ago, Oskanohana said:

Takerufuji got to 42 if we omit his 2nd basho full kyujo. So he got to 40+ in his first 4 appearances really. I was wondering if there was some madman who had a bad debut basho and a demotion to juryo and then lit makuuchi up when he got back, but I cannot find a way to try to query that.

Removing the division debut and conditioning on the prior basho being in juryo instead only added Terunofuji (45) and WTK (40) during their comebacks.

Edited November 8 by Reonito

[Reonito]

Total Juryo 15-0 yusho: five. Makuuchi rikishi with five or more 15-0 yusho: five.

[Oskanohana]

3 hours ago, Reonito said:

Total Juryo 15-0 yusho: five. Makuuchi rikishi with five or more 15-0 yusho: five.

The best part for me always has been that the surprisingly few guys in history who got a juryo zensho-yusho all made it to ozeki. Not even one of a regular sanyaku guy or top maegashira who drop to juryo by suspension or injury managed to achieve it. Or simply a regular guy that gets hot and starts winning left and right. None. In 70 fucking years.

[Bunbukuchagama]

4 hours ago, Reonito said:

Total Juryo 15-0 yusho: five. Makuuchi rikishi with five or more 15-0 yusho: five.

If you are really good, you fly through juryo like a rocket, which means you only get a couple of tries, and they happen way before you reach the top of your game . It's no coincidence that both recent Juryo zensho belong to mature Ozeki-quality rikishi returning from injury.

[Oskanohana]

14 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

If you are really good, you fly through juryo like a rocket, which means you only get a couple of tries, and they happen way before you reach the top of your game . It's no coincidence that both recent Juryo zensho belong to mature Ozeki-quality rikishi returning from injury.

Yes, but in 15-20 years that I've been following sumo I can remember of the top of my head Toyonoshima's or Miyabiyama's suspensions (well, Miyabiyama had made it to ozeki back then so scratch him), Abi's suspension, Asanoyama's suspension and injury. There are all kinds of random injuries that drop a sanyaku level rikishi to juryo and they're healthy by then. If Tokushoryu got a fucking 14-1 yusho in makuuchi when he was a juryo level rikishi by that time, it baffles my mind that no random guy managed to achieve the juryo zensho. It should have happened if anything by chance in all these years. It's basically only 2 chances per rikishi when they're coming up anew if they're already makuuchi level, but in 70 years that's a lot of tries. And, you know, a random Shirokuma might have gotten one. OK, I'm rambling now...you get my point.

Oh, and I forgot to ask @Reonito. Were you waiting for Fujiyogibear's defeat to post it?

[Bunbukuchagama]

1 minute ago, Oskanohana said:

Yes, but in 15-20 years that I've been following sumo I can remember of the top of my head Toyonoshima's or Miyabiyama's suspensions (well, Miyabiyama had made it to ozeki back then so scratch him), Abi's suspension, Asanoyama's suspension and injury. There are all kinds of random injuries that drop a sanyaku level rikishi to juryo and they're healthy by then. If Tokushoryu got a fucking 14-1 yusho in makuuchi when he was a juryo level rikishi by that time, it baffles my mind that no random guy managed to achieve the juryo zensho. It should have happened if anything by chance in all these years. It's basically only 2 chances per rikishi when they're coming up anew if they're already makuuchi level, but in 70 years that's a lot of tries. And, you know, a random Shirokuma might have gotten one. OK, I'm rambling now...you get my point.

Juryo is transitional in nature, it's full of young promising rikishi on their way up and former Makuuchi regulars on the downslopes of their careers. "Juryo regular" is a rare bird, and none of them is good enough to pull a 15-0. And the likes of Baruto, Tochinoshin, Ichinojo, Asanoyama, or Abi only get a couple of tries before they are back up; even if you are capable of dominating the division, the odds are against you.

[Reonito]

24 minutes ago, Oskanohana said:

Oh, and I forgot to ask @Reonito. Were you waiting for Fujiyogibear's defeat to post it?

I didn't want to jinx him.

And yeah, even Terunofuji didn't manage a juryo zensho, going 13-2 and then 10-5 before his 13-2 makuuchi yusho from M17.

[Reonito]

21 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Juryo is transitional in nature, it's full of young promising rikishi on their way up and former Makuuchi regulars on the downslopes of their careers. "Juryo regular" is a rare bird, and none of them is good enough to pull a 15-0. And the likes of Baruto, Tochinoshin, Ichinojo, Asanoyama, or Abi only get a couple of tries before they are back up; even if you are capable of dominating the division, the odds are against you.

Juryo: 32 instances of 14-1, 5 instances of 15-0 (6.4 ratio).

Makuuchi: 203 instances of 14-1, 78 instances of 15-0 (2.6 ratio).

[Bunbukuchagama]

1 minute ago, Reonito said:

Juryo: 32 instances of 14-1, 5 instances of 15-0 (6.4 ratio).

Makuuchi: 203 instances of 14-1, 78 instances of 15-0 (2.6 ratio).

It's because there isn't a Supermakuuchi for the likes of Hakuho to move up to when they are too good for their division. 

[Oskanohana]

Independently of @Reonito's post I was extracting the 14-1 records in juryo and their career high ranks.Query. Much more of a random bunch. Poor Hakuoho didn't even get the yusho.

Half of you randoms should have made it to 15-0. That's how probability works, right?  (I know it's not, I'm just joking, no need to post the right odds, which I'm too lazy to calculate)

Let's get the odds. Assuming 50% chance of winning (and I'm using the "," as the decimal separator and the "." for the thousands because that's how it should be ):

• 15-0 probabilty is 0,00305%. 1 in 32.768. (of course, that's 2 to the 15, duh)
• 14-1 probability is 0,0458% 1 in 2.184,5.

Hence, astonishingly, a 15-0 record is exactly 15 times more probable than a 14-1 (I should have guessed that, but the brain gets lazier and lazier every year that passes).

To sum it up, I'm very disappointed in you 14-1 bunch that didn't make it to ozeki. All 22 of you. Well, only in 21, I could never get mad at you, Wakanosato 

Edited November 18 by Oskanohana

[Jakusotsu]

...and don't forget that the lack of kensho money doesn't make a difference in Juryo between 14-1 and 15-0 

[Oskanohana]

As an extra bit, only 2 juryo-ites lost on senshuraku after a 14-0 start. Query......Losers

Homasho, you were the chosen one!!!. Those were the days when a juryo strong record could still get you above a measly lower maegashira kachi-koshi in the next banzuke, so Homie really dropped the ball there. And against Dildo of all people. It was a kachi-koshi battle for Dildo, yes, but yaocho was erradicated in 2011. If I were that kind of person, I'd point that both guys are now oyakata under the same ichimon...

Edited November 19 by Oskanohana
.

[Asashosakari]

In Nagoya 1990, all 10 rikishi ranked Ms1 to Ms5 had a score of at least 3-3 after six bouts, the only time that has happened between 1989 and now.

Edited November 19 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama]

Oonosato had his first back to back losses since becoming Yokozuna today. It's actually five bashos running, two as Ozeki. Ended.

[Oskanohana]

6 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Oonosato had his first back to back losses since becoming Yokozuna today. It's actually five bashos running, two as Ozeki. Ended.

It's also the 4th time this century that a Yokozuna has lost against an already make-koshi rikishi (I'm not counting Chiyonokuni's fusen). 24th in history since the start of the 15-day basho. Query

For completeness' sake, 181 wins by the Yokozuna in such bouts. Query (I'm again omitting the fusen)

[Faustonowaka]

Kazuma: from Jonokuchi to Juryo in 4 basho, I don’t think that has ever happened before

 

Edit: it happened 3 times before, last one was Hokutokuni but with an asterisk because it was in the 2011 scandal period. The others were in 1935 and 1936

Edited November 21 by Faustonowaka