Trivia bits

[ryafuji]

3 hours ago, Faustonowaka said:

If Chiyoshoma doesn’t start winning soon, Kokonoe’s streak of having a rikishi in Makuuchi wil come to an end

How long has the makuuchi streak been going? I think the streak of sekitori has been running since its founding, as they had Kitanofuji at ōzeki who transferred from Dewanoumi, and then of course Chiyonofuji and Hokutoumi. I thought there might have been a gap between Tomoefuji and Chiyotaikai, but no, they replaced each other.

Edited September 16, 2023 by ryafuji

[Benihana]

40 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

How long has the makuuchi streak been going? I think the streak of sekitori has been running since its founding, as they had Kitanofuji at ōzeki who transferred from Dewanoumi, and then of course Chiyonofuji and Hokutoumi. I thought there might have been a gap between Tomoefuji and Chiyotaikai, but no, they replaced each other.

The makuuchi streak has been going since 1974.11. 1974.07 was Kitanofujis last basho and his only makuuchi fellow Kitaseumi scored a bad MK, kicking him down to J1, from where he went back to makuuchi 1974.11.

[Asashosakari]

1 hour ago, ryafuji said:

How long has the makuuchi streak been going?

Hasn't been that long. There were breaks in the mid-90s (which you alluded to) and in 2010/11, so since Hatsu 2012.

Edit: Oh, as for the sekitori streak... Killed by the gambling scandal.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Asashosakari

[Koorifuu]

1 hour ago, Asashosakari said:

Edit: Oh, as for the sekitori streak... Killed by the gambling scandal.

Interestingly, that was Kokonoe's only sekitori-less basho by a very thin margin.

Chiyohakuho was their single representative throughout, except for Aki '11 as you flagged, but his walking of the plank post-yaocho scandal coincided with Chiyonokuni's first promotion into juryo, so they effectively replaced each other.

Chiyonokuni would be, four basho later, the man to break the two year long makuuchi drought for Kokonoe. He was still in sandanme when Chiyotaikai started it by retiring in Hatsu '10.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Koorifuu

[Reonito]

25 minutes ago, Koorifuu said:

Chiyohakuho was their single representative throughout

Of course there had to have been a Chiyohakuho 

[Yokozuna Hattorizakura]

On 17/09/2023 at 10:40, Reonito said:

Of course there had to have been a Chiyohakuho 

he was also known to be a bit of a trouble maker as well. what is it with hakuhos?

[Akinomaki]

Seeing m11w Hokuseiho in the first bout made me wonder who the highest ranked rikishi in the first makuuchi bout was, with makuuchi size 42.

[Seiyashi]

7 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Seeing m11w Hokuseiho in the first bout made me wonder who the highest ranked rikishi in the first makuuchi bout was, with makuuchi size 42.

Assuming no or even absences, mathematically it can't be any higher than the number of makuuchi fighting on that day/2. 

[Akinomaki]

On 17/09/2023 at 22:34, Akinomaki said:

Onosato is in good company as the 7th to start with 8 wins in his juryo debut (in the 15 days per basho era since Natsu 1949) o

Naruyama Hatsu 1953 - got till the 9th -> 12-3Y

Shotenro Kyushu 2008 - also 9 -> 12-3Y - the 4 recent had their streak all end at 8

Ikioi Kyushu 2011 -> 12-3Y

Chiyotairyu Hatsu 2012 -> 13-2Y

Mitakeumi Nagoya 2015 -> 11-4Y

Sato (Takakeisho) Natsu 2016 -> 11-4

On 18/09/2023 at 08:51, Akinomaki said:

now Onosato is the 3rd to start with 9 wins in his juryo debut - but will he be the first with 10?

He wasn't, but I guess Onosato's achievement is something for trivia

[Jakusotsu]

1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

Seeing m11w Hokuseiho in the first bout made me wonder who the highest ranked rikishi in the first makuuchi bout was, with makuuchi size 42.

Hatsu 2016, Day 14 - M9e Sadanoumi
Kyushu 2017, Day 15 - M9e Endo

Haru 2017, Day 15 - M9w Kotoyuki

17 instances with M10
53 instances with M11

Edited September 19, 2023 by Jakusotsu

[Reonito]

Last time, Hakuoho was trying to match Ryogoku, who is the only one to win in his makuuchi debut (in 1914). This time, Atamifuji is trying to match him with consecutive J-M yusho, which also hasn't been done since then.

[Asashosakari]

42 minutes ago, Reonito said:

Last time, Hakuoho was trying to match Ryogoku, who is the only one to win in his makuuchi debut (in 1914). This time, Atamifuji is trying to match him with consecutive J-M yusho, which also hasn't been done since then.

How quickly people come to feel that simply winning the yusho after any sort of promotion to makuuchi is no longer noteworthy enough. 

[dingo]

On 16/09/2023 at 21:37, Yamanashi said:

5 years ago this month, Kokonoe had 4 sekitori in Makuuchi and 2 in Juryo.

Yeah doesn't feel that far away when makuuchi was basically brimming with rikishi called Chiyo-something. Just 2 years ago there were 5.

[Koorifuu]

12 hours ago, dingo said:

Yeah doesn't feel that far away when makuuchi was basically brimming with rikishi called Chiyo-something. Just 2 years ago there were 5.

Ahh yes, the banzuke where three Kokonoe rikishi were in the five lowest slots, forcing the torikumi committee into detours.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Koorifuu

[ryafuji]

Yoshiazuma has quietly moved into the all-time top ten for consecutive career appearances, in the same tournament as Tamawashi. Quite impressive considering he's 46 and hasn't been in the sekitori ranks since 2014. 

[Yamanashi]

4 hours ago, ryafuji said:

Yoshiazuma has quietly moved into the all-time top ten for consecutive career appearances, in the same tournament as Tamawashi. Quite impressive considering he's 46 and hasn't been in the sekitori ranks since 2014. 

He peeked into Makuuchi for the last time in November 2012.  Only 15 of the 42 current Makuuchi rikishi were in Ozumo at that time.

[BlckKnght]

Seeing as we're headed for a seven-way playoff in Makushita and a 2-way playoff in Jonidan this basho (and the top two divisions might get playoffs too), I thought I'd check on historical records of big playoffs, to see how unusual the current situation is. Turns out, it's not that extreme.

According to this query on SumoDB, the most playoff matches in a single basho is 19. That record was set in November 1970, where there were 9-way playoffs in both Makushita and Sandanme, as well as a Yokozuna vs Yokozuna playoff in the top division. The winner of the Makushita yusho had to fight 5 times!

The second most matches, 17, also happened in a notable way. In May of 1982, every division had a playoff. From top division down, they were 2-way, 2-way, 7-way, 2-way, 3-way and 6-way. (After writing that, the word "way" has lost all meaning.)

[Akinomaki]

It's not just Kokonoe, Kasugano is in danger to have the makuuchi streak end as well if Aoiyama drops: since Kyushu 1967 they always had someone in the division. o

[Koorifuu]

Yesterday, we had Kitaharima beat Gonoumi for the sandanme yusho.

Things happening on the 19th of May, 2004:

• Kitaharima lost to Shimasegawa by yorikiri on Day 11 of the Natsu '04 basho, falling to 3-3 in sandanme.
• Gonoumi was born.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Koorifuu

[Asashosakari]

This came up on Reddit today - banzuke that featured 7+ current or future yokozuna in the top division. Short version over there, here's the expansive one.

(Onishiki -> Y, Tsunenohana -> M)
7 1917.05: 4 current, 3 future
7 1918.01
(Tachiyama -> intai)

(Futabayama -> Y, Akinoumi -> M)
7 1938.01: 4 current, 3 future
7 1938.05
(Tamanishiki -> intai)

(Terukuni -> M)
7 1939.05: 3 current, 4 future
(Musashiyama -> intai)

(Chiyonoyama -> M)
7 1945.11: 4 current, 3 future
(Futabayama -> intai)

(Akinoumi -> intai, Kagamisato & Tochinishiki -> M)
7 1947.06: 2 current, 5 future
(Maedayama -> Y, Yoshibayama -> M)
8 1947.11: 3 current, 5 future
8 1948.05
8 1948.10
(Azumafuji -> Y)
8 1949.01: 4 current, 4 future
8 1949.05
8 1949.10
(Maedayama -> intai, Wakanohana -> M)
8 1950.01: 3 current, 5 future
8 1950.05
8 1950.09
(Asashio -> M)
9 1951.01: 3 current, 6 future
9 1951.05
(Chiyonoyama -> Y)
9 1951.09: 4 current, 5 future
9 1952.01
9 1952.05
9 1952.09
9 1953.01
(Terukuni -> intai, Kagamisato -> Y)
8 1953.03: 4 current, 4 future
8 1953.05
8 1953.09
(Haguroyama -> intai)
7 1954.01: 3 current, 4 future
(Yoshibayama -> Y)
7 1954.03: 4 current, 3 future
7 1954.05
7 1954.09
(Azumafuji -> intai, Tochinishiki -> Y)

(Tochinoumi -> Y, Tamanoumi -> M)
7 1964.03: 3 current, 4 future
7 1964.05
(Kotozakura -> J)

(Kotozakura -> M)
7 1964.11: 3 current, 4 future
7 1965.01
(Sadanoyama -> Y)
7 1965.03: 4 current, 3 future
7 1965.05
7 1965.07
7 1965.09
7 1965.11
7 1966.01
7 1966.03
7 1966.05
7 1966.07
7 1966.09
7 1966.11
(Tochinoumi -> intai)

(Futahaguro -> M)
7 1984.09: 3 current, 4 future
7 1984.11
7 1985.01
(Kitanoumi -> intai)

(Takanohana -> M)
7 1990.11: 4 current, 3 future
7 1991.01
7 1991.03
7 1991.05
(Chiyonofuji -> intai)

For the 515 tournaments from 1890.05 (Nishinoumi first yokozuna listed on a banzuke) to 2016.11*, the distribution by count looks like this:

9: 7
8: 12
7: 33
6: 92
5: 145
4: 170
3: 42
2: 12
1: 2

The sole period of time with just one current+future yokozuna comprises Hatsu and Haru 2004, with Musashimaru freshly retired, Asashoryu the sole active yokozuna, and none of his eventual successors in makuuchi yet. It was ended by Hakuho's promotion for Natsu 2004. The 2's are the very first 4 tournaments covered (Nishinoumi current, Konishiki future) in the 1890s, and 5+3 tournaments surrounding Asashoryu's sole stint.

* Takakeisho reached the top division in 2017.01, and I'm feeling confident that nobody who was already present before that will still join Terunofuji as yokozuna, so 1890-2016 should be the time period for which the numbers are settled. Sorry Takayasu, Shodai, Mitakeumi and Daieisho (to name the notable ones).

[Asashosakari]

Tomorrow will be the first time in almost 5 years that no Ms1-Ms5 rikishi are competing on a senshuraku. Caveat: in Nagoya 2022 the only such bout was an emergency 8th match.

 

In fact, everybody down to Ms10e has already finished. That's unheard of in the era for which we have full lower division torikumi available. (Although it's close: Twice the highest rank left to compete was exactly Ms10e.)

[BlckKnght]

55 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Tomorrow will be the first time in almost 5 years that no Ms1-Ms5 rikishi are competing on a senshuraku.

While this is true for the regular matches, the 7-way playoff will include Ms3w Hitoshi (who may in fact need to fight several times).

An unrelated Trivia bit:
If Atamifuji wins the yusho, he'll be only the second rikishi to win the Juryo and Makuuchi titles back to back. The only time it was done before (in the SumoDB records) was by Ryogoku in January and May of 1914.

[Faustonowaka]

9 hours ago, BlckKnght said:

If Atamifuji wins the yusho, he'll be only the second rikishi to win the Juryo and Makuuchi titles back to back. The only time it was done before (in the SumoDB records) was by Ryogoku in January and May of 1914.

Toyonoshima came very close in 2010 (14-1 Juryo yusho followed by a 14-1 playoff loss in Makuuchi)

Edited September 23, 2023 by Faustonowaka

[Reonito]

With one day to go, Midorifuji has tied his own makuuchi/sekitori record with 5 katasukashi wins in a basho. Back at Hatsu 2021, the feat got him the ginosho. (There's one other guy who did it in in Jonidan).

[Reonito]

Unless someone is a late scratch, this will be the first basho since Haru 2019, and only the 6th this century, with no fusen in the top division.