Aki 2014 Basho Comments

[Andreas21]

I'm still shocked by the sight of Harumafujis eye. I keep my fingers crossed that he's recovering soon.

Good ol' talk on the Next Yokozuna thing, eh? You can never know. Who would have guessed that Kakuryu did and Baruto and Kisenosato not? They all could make it if they keep free from injuries and develop further. But Ichinojo is a frightening sight indeed, and was from the first day. If the top guys can figure him out I'm damn curious how.

[Naganoyama]

... Who would have guessed that Kakuryu did and Baruto and Kisenosato not? ...

Fay of course!

[Kintamayama]

Harumafuji was Kyujo and Osunaarashi got a fusen win. The bout was scheduled to be the penultimate bout of the day. However they changed the bout order and postponed the Hakuho bout to follow this fusen bout. Why?

A day cannot ever end with a fusen. It will always be the first of all Yokozuna bouts, even if it was scheduled otherwise. 3 Yokozuna? The third bout from the end.

[Fay]

... Who would have guessed that Kakuryu did and Baruto and Kisenosato not? ...

Fay of course!

Exactly ;-)

[Asashosakari]

Harumafuji was Kyujo and Osunaarashi got a fusen win. The bout was scheduled to be the penultimate bout of the day. However they changed the bout order and postponed the Hakuho bout to follow this fusen bout. Why?

A day cannot ever end with a fusen. It will always be the first of all Yokozuna bouts, even if it was scheduled otherwise. 3 Yokozuna? The third bout from the end.

Nothing to do with yokozuna bouts, as far as I know. Fusen bouts are simply always moved so that they're followed by two real bouts, if it's at the end of a session. (Goes for juryo, too, if I remember correctly.)

[Asojima]

... (Goes for juryo, too, if I remember correctly.)

and for at least the makushita division.

[Masumasumasu]

... Who would have guessed that Kakuryu did and Baruto and Kisenosato not? ...

Fay of course!

Boing!

[Kintamayama]

Harumafuji was Kyujo and Osunaarashi got a fusen win. The bout was scheduled to be the penultimate bout of the day. However they changed the bout order and postponed the Hakuho bout to follow this fusen bout. Why?

A day cannot ever end with a fusen. It will always be the first of all Yokozuna bouts, even if it was scheduled otherwise. 3 Yokozuna? The third bout from the end.

Nothing to do with yokozuna bouts, as far as I know. Fusen bouts are simply always moved so that they're followed by two real bouts, if it's at the end of a session. (Goes for juryo, too, if I remember correctly.)

What if there are 4 yokozuna and the musubi yokozuna goes kyujo? You are saying that one Yokozuna will fight, then the kyujo, then the other two? Worth an archive check, if I only knew how.. "Followed by two real bouts" -And if there are two yokozuna? The fusen, then an Ozeki bout, and then the musubi? I don't think so, but maybe I'm wrong..

Edit-I guess we'll never know unless someone remembers something concrete or has a video, as the database kimarite goes by the torikumi in its original order.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Kintamayama

[Kuroyama]

Kakuryu really proved himself with that win over Terunofuji from some absolutely terrible positions.

Alex Jones says Mongolian rikishi always lose the first bout against their senpai.

Who?

Orion

An right-wing/libertarian American talk show host known for espousing bizarre conspiracy theories. He believes the US government was behind the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing and the 9/11 attacks, that the moon landing was a hoax, and others. Not to be taken as a literal quote in this case.

[lackmaker]

And if there are only two yokozuna, due to meet on senshuraku,and one withdraws, where is that slotted in?

[Asojima]

On senshuraku, can a fusen winner be awarded the arrows or the bowstring, or must the day end with 3 "real" matches?

[Asashosakari]

What if there are 4 yokozuna and the musubi yokozuna goes kyujo? You are saying that one Yokozuna will fight, then the kyujo, then the other two? Worth an archive check, if I only knew how.. "Followed by two real bouts" -And if there are two yokozuna? The fusen, then an Ozeki bout, and then the musubi? I don't think so, but maybe I'm wrong..

Edit-I guess we'll never know unless someone remembers something concrete or has a video, as the database kimarite goes by the torikumi in its original order.

For the 2-yokozuna scenario, maybe somebody (Asojima?) has a recording from Nagoya 2008 Day 6 to clarify. Or Aki 2008 Day 10 for the other (original) placement of the fusen yokozuna bout.

On senshuraku, can a fusen winner be awarded the arrows or the bowstring, or must the day end with 3 "real" matches?

This actually happened back in January - as evidenced by Moti's video, in that case they moved the fusen bout so that it was followed by three real bouts. Edited September 18, 2014 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama]

On senshuraku, can a fusen winner be awarded the arrows or the bowstring, or must the day end with 3 "real" matches?

This actually happened back in January - as evidenced by Moti's video, in that case they moved the fusen bout so that it was followed by three real bouts.

That is surely because of the Sanyaku soroibumi and the bouts that follow.

[Asojima]

For the 2-yokozuna scenario, maybe somebody (Asojima?) has a recording from Nagoya 2008 Day 6 to clarify. Or Aki 2008 Day 10 for the other (original) placement of the fusen yokozuna bout.

Hee. Hee. I knew that some day those old fuzzy vision Cd's would find a use. The order on Nagoya 2008 day 6 was Kaio-Wakanoho,

the Wakanosato fusen award, Toyonoshima-Kotomikey, Futeno-Hakuho. I can't believe we actually fought our way through that horrible video.

[sekitori]

But Ichinojo is a frightening sight indeed, and was from the first day. If the top guys can figure him out I'm damn curious how.

They've done a pretty good job of figuring him out so far. From a post by Kintamayama on Sept. 8th when he went 0-20 against Hakuho and Kakuryu:

And so it came to pass that Hakuhou and Kakuryuu went to Tokitsukaze beya for degeiko and decided to "take care" of Makuuchi newcomer compatriot giant Ichinojou. Hakuhou had 13 bouts against him and Kakuryuu had 7, both won them all. "It's important to go to train where there is a lot of competition. You have to get ready for the real thing.." said Hakuhou. "Look at the guy's body!! It's natural that he has quickly climbed the banzuke.." added Kakuryuu.

"I was really happy (that they trained with me) but I'm dead tired.. My tachiai is weak. It's just totally bad.." said Ichinojou.

Edited September 19, 2014 by sekitori

[Washuyama]

You can't compare keiko with hon-basho. I'm not on the "Ichinojo is the next Raiden" bandwagon yet.... But for a rookie, he is pretty impressive. Looking forward to see him against some of the lower-ranked veterans (10-ku, 10-ho, etc...) as well as the future when he faces the joi... He won't have the great height advantage with Kyokutenho and Tokitenku kicking at his ankles like a pissed off toddler ought to be fun to watch too.

[dingo]

Somewhat bizarrely Ichinojo had the most trouble with M15 Kyokushuho, not with other mid-maegashira he's faced so far.

[Taigiin khuu]

Somewhat bizarrely Ichinojo had the most trouble with M15 Kyokushuho, not with other mid-maegashira he's faced so far.

I agree, but it seemed to me that Kyokoshuho tried something different there, some Satoyama-like sumo. Ok, it did not work, but it was something new and I was kind of proud of Kyokoshuho for it.

[Ack!]

Good ol' talk on the Next Yokozuna thing, eh? You can never know. Who would have guessed that Kakuryu did and Baruto and Kisenosato not? They all could make it if they keep free from injuries and develop further. But Ichinojo is a frightening sight indeed, and was from the first day. If the top guys can figure him out I'm damn curious how.

I think it is great that we have exciting propects worthy of generating talk about the next yokozuna, and the number of bodies in the seats seems to indicate that is the general feeling. I don't expect any of the current sanyaku to make it unless/until retirements clear out at least two of the current three yokuzunae. Endo, Osunaarashi are exciting to consider, but are unproven and have weaknesses they need to work on. Terunofuji, who has been keeping pace with Osuna, should merit some discussion, but he is just another Mongolian such that he can be overlooked. Ichinojo, in my opinion, is ahead of them all in development and will surpass them in the rankings in short order. As such, I would favor him as the next ozeki. Whether or not he can get from there to yokozuna is anyone's guess. The fact that the talent is there is making sumo much more exciting to watch than in the past year or two. This is a fun discussion!

[Asojima]

Asojima, on 18 Sept 2014 - 14:38, said:

Asashosakari, on 18 Sept 2014 - 14:04, said:

For the 2-yokozuna scenario, maybe somebody (Asojima?) has a recording from Nagoya 2008 Day 6 to clarify. Or Aki 2008 Day 10 for the other (original) placement of the fusen yokozuna bout.

Hee. Hee. I knew that some day those old fuzzy vision Cd's would find a use. The order on Nagoya 2008 day 6 was Kaio-Wakanoho,the Wakanosato fusen award, Toyonoshima-Kotomikey, Futeno-Hakuho.

A more interesting example is Hatsu 2009 Day 12. Y1e Hakuho won the fusen, and they scheduled the award to a yokozuna before the 2 ozekis match (Harumafuji/Chiyotaikai) and the S1e Baruto/Y1w Asashoryu match.

[Asashosakari]

Hee. Hee. I knew that some day those old fuzzy vision Cd's would find a use. The order on Nagoya 2008 day 6 was Kaio-Wakanoho,the Wakanosato fusen award, Toyonoshima-Kotomikey, Futeno-Hakuho.

A more interesting example is Hatsu 2009 Day 12. Y1e Hakuho won the fusen, and they scheduled the award to a yokozuna before the 2 ozekis match (Harumafuji/Chiyotaikai) and the S1e Baruto/Y1w Asashoryu match.

Thanks for looking into all those! :-) Goes to show that rank privilege doesn't matter at all when it comes to fusen "bouts".

[kuroimori]

Masunoyama should go right back to kyujo with that bad knee.

He had a worst case scenario bout today.

Couldn't push Wakanosato out, fell down, gyoji gave him the win, the men in black interfered and decided to have a re-match where Masunoyama just dropped down when he had to use his heavily taped leg.

I just don't get it, why he could even think that entering the basho would be successful.

[Gernobono]

I just don't get it, why he could even think that entering the basho would be successful.

but he did NOT henka.....1 big point for masunoyama

and in general i agree with you

[kuroimori]

Ikioi is the first Makuuchi guy to siege and storm the castle of Ichinojo.

NHK commentator observed that the loud applause was almost similar to after a Yokozuna lost.

[Morty]

Ikioi is the first Makuuchi guy to siege and storm the castle of Ichinojo.

NHK commentator observed that the loud applause was almost similar to after a Yokozuna lost.

After watching Ichinojo for a few basho I'm not that sure he is that skillful. But he has such a low centre of gravity, great balance, patience, is really big and really strong and nobody so far seems able to push him out if he doesn't want to be. Can't wait to see him against Hak at some stage.

Also, the look on Ikioi's face when he finally won was brilliant. The effort he put into that final throw then the look of triumph was just great to watch.

This is an excellent basho - so many long epic battles and some great sumo. Thoroughly enjoying it