Aki 2014 Basho Comments

[Vikanohara]

I liked it purely for "Ichinojo is lower body. Oosunaarashi is upper body." by the way.

[wanderer]

I like what I see so far, but I hesitate to predict yokozuna so early for Ichinojo. Osunaarashi looked unstoppable when he first came into makuuichi; looking pretty stoppable lately. Endo came zooming up, and is finding the joi-jin a whole nother thing. Haven't lost hope for either of them, but at this point who can say? And there was the lad a few years back who on first reaching the joi-jin scored four kachi-koshi in a row. His name is Kisenosato, and whether he makes it to yokozuna still very much in doubt.

I watched Hakuho first time when he just entered juryo and had no doubt he was a future Yokozuna. Hakuho's first ever makekoshi didn't come until he was already sanyaku and that was due to an injury.

There was a big hype in Mongolia about Kyukoshuho, handpicked by Kyukoshuzan, son of a wrestler, good physique etc. But his juryo debut dissapointed and he even slipped back to Makushita due to injury and etc. He never looked even close to Kyokutenho's calibre.

But I have the same feeling about Ichinojo as Hakuho, except one nagging thing. Ichinojo must avoid injuries to his knees at all costs. He might end up as same as Baruto and Kotooshu if he doesn't. Otherwise he is pretty unstoppable indeed. He is showing more of his skills as basho progresses. He didn't have to do so when he was in juryo. He seems to have had pretty good coaching in Mongolian wrestling in his young age. I can see that. That in itself is a big sign. Ichinojo should give up few bouts to avoid injuries and wait until his body develops enough strength.

As I stated earlier, Osunaarashi is just Roho 1.1. But Endo may end up becoming Yokozuna earlier than Kisenosato. He is looking more and more like Asashoryu.

[Kotononami]

And what about Terunofuji?

He's the biggest hope imho

[Asashosakari]

I liked it purely for "Ichinojo is lower body. Oosunaarashi is upper body." by the way.

Well, one's a castle and the other one's a storm...

[Masumasumasu]

Oosunaarashi is upper body.

Oosunaarashi is headed for Kyujo City.

I certainly agree with the first quoted sentence, and I don't necessarily disagree with the second, but could you (or anyone else) provide some detail or examples as to what you mean? I personally don't see a connection between a strong upper body and getting injured, but I haven't been following the sport very long.

A strong upper body doesn't lead to injury but a lower body that isn't fully developed does.

[Masumasumasu]

I liked it purely for "Ichinojo is lower body. Oosunaarashi is upper body." by the way.

I'm not celebrating, I'm just being honest.

[Pandaazuma]

Can't remember, precisely, but does Yoshikaze get a kinboshi if he beat Yokozuna Harumafuji by hansoku? I seem to remember that you have to win straight up??

[Gurowake]

Wikipedia says he shouldn't, but there's no specific source for the paragraph on the restrictions. I think it makes more sense to not award the kinboshi since there was no guarantee that the maegashira would have beaten the yokozuna without the foul; the result of the match is a penalty to the yokozuna and the win to the maegashira is just a consequence.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Gurowake

[Pandaazuma]

Doitsuyama has awarded Yoshikaze the kinboshi on his database...so that settles it, I guess!

[Asashosakari]

I'm pretty sure he doesn't, or at least he shouldn't; Kyokushuzan didn't in his hansoku bout with Asashoryu. That being said, Yoshikaze's Kyokai profile also counts it as a kinboshi...

(However, that being said, I should add that the Kyokai's online data-keeping has been very unreliable since they ended their cooperation with Goo, e.g. all the rikishi who retired after the last basho and weren't active in it were credited with an 0-0-4 record for some reason instead of the correct 0-0-7.)

Edited September 17, 2014 by Asashosakari

[wanderer]

And what about Terunofuji?

He's the biggest hope imho

Terunofuji will not go beyond sekiwake.

[Monnodo]

Terunofuji is 23 and has risen through the ranks in 3 years, I think he is able to improve and might be also a future hope.

But right in the moment I would bet my money on Ichinojo. Maybe he and Endo (nice effort today but he seemed to be outpowered by Kotoshogiku) will be the next generation rivals? And maybe Jokoryu, allthough his sumo is not looking very good in the moment.

[Gurowake]

Endo definitely has the technical skills and tenacity to do very well, but he's just too small and lacks the muscle to do anything to the biggest guys.

[Gurowake]

Hakuho's first ever makekoshi didn't come until he was already sanyaku and that was due to an injury.

I'm not sure if you meant as sekitori, but he did have two makekoshi in the lower divisions. That's still pretty impressive for someone starting as at 15 and having no experience! To note, he's only sat one tournament out, and failed to finish another after withdrawing 6-2, and as Yokozuna has fought every day of every tournament.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Gurowake

[Pandaazuma]

Osunaarashi: He's got the skills and the spirit. However, I still don't know what 'his sumo' is...he tactically adjusts to opponents each fight, sometimes getting it right and sometimes not. He has great strength and can do oshi-zumo as well as yotsu-zumo. Hope he can take it to the next level.

Terunofuji: Can definitely be an ozeki. He hates losing - you can see that.

Ichinojo: Still young and learning but with that body he can go all the way. Still a bit slow and will be found out by the speedier guys. Can't wait to see him put up against the top lads.

Endo: Has great technique and seems to have the spirit but lacks the physical strength at this time. He needs to get down the gym.

[Asashosakari]

Endo definitely has the technical skills and tenacity to do very well, but he's just too small and lacks the muscle to do anything to the biggest guys.

And that's the difference to the collegiate circuit - plenty of large rikishi there, too, but they're generally limited in other ways, so mid-sized allrounders like Endo can rise to the top there. The rare times that there's a university rikishi who's both large and technically skilled, you're looking at all-time amateur greats like Kushimaumi and (not quite that large) Kotomitsuki. The usual upper-class heavy collegiate guys are more at the level of Takarafuji and Tokushoryu at best.

Endo: Has great technique and seems to have the spirit but lacks the physical strength at this time. He needs to get down the gym.

So does Ichinojo, I reckon. IMHO, the two losses to Tochinoshin were less a matter of experience and more one of Ichinojo finally running into an opponent who could match him in sheer size and additionally had both greater strength and stamina. There's still some muscle to be added to Ichinojo's frame if he wants to go head to head with the likes of Kise and Giku and succeed.

(Of course, it's a pretty common complaint that the talented rikishi coming out of amateur sumo are often merely in decent physical condition, but not what's expected of a top pro sumotori.)

Edited September 17, 2014 by Asashosakari

[shumitto]

(However, that being said, I should add that the Kyokai's online data-keeping has been very unreliable since they ended their cooperation with Goo, e.g. all the rikishi who retired after the last basho and weren't active in it were credited with an 0-0-4 record for some reason instead of the correct 0-0-7.)

Their website is overall worse after leaving goo, which is a shame. I stopped using it altogether.

Chiyomaru has skipped his surgery to enter the basho but his efforts are definitely not paying off.

[Kintamayama]

Can't remember, precisely, but does Yoshikaze get a kinboshi if he beat Yokozuna Harumafuji by hansoku? I seem to remember that you have to win straight up??

No, he most certainly 100% does not, wikipedia notwithstanding.

[Pandaazuma]

That's what I thought, Moti. Thanks.

[Kintamayama]

I'm pretty sure he doesn't, or at least he shouldn't; Kyokushuzan didn't in his hansoku bout with Asashoryu. That being said, Yoshikaze's Kyokai profile also counts it as a kinboshi...


(However, that being said, I should add that the Kyokai's online data-keeping has been very unreliable since they ended their cooperation with Goo, e.g. all the rikishi who retired after the last basho and weren't active in it were credited with an 0-0-4 record for some reason instead of the correct 0-0-7.)

On NHK today, they definitely said it does not count.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Kintamayama

[Kintamayama]

NHK on hansoku:

[kuroimori]

But Endo may end up becoming Yokozuna earlier than Kisenosato. He is looking more and more like Asashoryu.

Ahmm, I think Endo may end up becoming Kisenosato earlier than Kisenosato becoming Yokozuna.

But what are you smoking that you think "Endo is looking more and more like Asashoryu"???

[specialweek 2]

Doitsuyama has awarded Yoshikaze the kinboshi on his database...so that settles it, I guess!

Really?

Might be last basho you are seeing.

[Sumozumo]

I wouldn't be negative on Terunofuji yet. A 1-3 record, but all of his losses have been strong.

It isn't like he just falls down like Endo or Aoiyama

[Masumasumasu]

I wouldn't be negative on Terunofuji yet. A 1-3 record, but all of his losses have been strong.

It isn't like he just falls down like Endo or Aoiyama

Anyone would be silly to count out Terunofuji.

The human tree has a good chance at becoming Yokozuna in my opinion.