Achiyama Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Almost no mono-ii all basho long and now there is one on the last bout. And even a tori-naoshi - although it looked that Harumafuji's left arm clearly touched down first? shin-tai rule? But the shimpan said it looked like they touched down at the same time.... hmmm... It's ridiculous! Hakuho was robbed. Especially, when they repeated the bout several times from different angles. The shimpan must be given the opportunity to watch these slow motion repeats.
Torabayama Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) Great basho, regardless of what happens next. Really enjoyed this one. Kakuryu getting his first yusho, Osunarashi finally getting his kachi-koshi on the last day, Endo facing off against the big guns for the first time, Kotooshu retiring, Kotoshogiku taking down both Yokozuna, Kisenosato getting pushed of the ring by a Hakuho matta, Goedo pulling together some epic performances and finishing 12-3 with the jun-yusho and setting up a hopeful ozeki run, and a rematch on the final day yokozuna match. Entertaining stuff. Edited March 23, 2014 by Torabayama 5
Asashosakari Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 setting a dangerous precedent if he is promoted without the back-to-backs. A return to the days of tepid yokozuna performances a la late 80s/early 90s. It sets an excellent precedent. He's had back to back 14-1's and one of them is a (clear by two wins) yusho. If you seriously believe that's not good enough, I don't know what to say. 6
Gernobono Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 The shimpan must be given the opportunity to watch these slow motion repeats. do you remember a sashi chigae for the tate-gyoji? i guess a tori-naoshi is the "worst" that can happen to the kimura shonosuke 1
Umigame Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 And even a tori-naoshi - although it looked that Harumafuji's left arm clearly touched down first? shin-tai rule? But the shimpan said it looked like they touched down at the same time.... hmmm... No, that's not what the shinpan said. He said Harumafuji's arm touched down at the same time Hakuho's body went flying ("tai ga tobu"). In other words, the decision was that Hakuho went shinitai at the same time that Harumafuji touched down. 3
Kurt Trendafilov Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Regardless of everything it was a great basho. I hope the parity at the top continues so that we have more unpredictable outcomes. And I was always wondering why do they bother to interview the riskishi after the matches when they always give identical replies. How do you feel? I'm happy. What do you think about your performance? It turned out good. How did you manage to win? I calmed down and tryied to get through my own sumo. What about the remaining matches? I'll try to be calm and ge through my own sumo. Hai. 3
kuroimori Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 NHK guest commentator Kitanofuji isn't too happy at all about Kakuryu's yusho, mumbling some rant towards the japanese rikishi and their oyakata to get some competition ready for the Mongolian "trium-yokozunate", he sounded really pissed.
ronnie Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 NHK guest commentator Kitanofuji isn't too happy at all about Kakuryu's yusho, mumbling some rant towards the japanese rikishi and their oyakata to get some competition ready for the Mongolian "trium-yokozunate", he sounded really pissed. He should be happy now that the Ozeki/Sekiwake ranks are gaijin free! 1
Manekineko Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) I think he'd be happier with all-foreign ozeki/wake reigned over by Japanese yokozuna... :-P Edited March 23, 2014 by Manekineko 1
yorikiried by fate Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 I think this is the NSK's new strategy. They push all the best foreigners into the Yokozuna rank. Then - in a surprise move - they declare the rank illegal. Voila!
Asojima Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Regardless of everything it was a great basho. I hope the parity at the top continues so that we have more unpredictable outcomes. And I was always wondering why do they bother to interview the riskishi after the matches when they always give identical replies. Every sport has its own set of canned responses for the player interviews.
Hakuyobaku Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 If dead body applies then every utchari is that. Otherwise..
Ajisen Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 I thought the Mono-ii was not only who touched down first but also who was in a losing position when the touch happened. Hakuho was falling outside from Harumafuji's move and his hand landing was blocked from some of the judges view. Still a extra bout keeps the crowds happy and the YDC off Harumafuji's back so I guess silver lining all round. Congratulations Kakuryu! Exciting basho.
ALAKTORN Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) I can’t believe how different from my expectations these last 2 days were. Crazy as hell. I didn’t like Hakuhō in the final days… are his times of dominance coming to an end? Edit: by the way, I thought Harumafuji was robbed in the first match, myself. Looked like shini-tai to me, Harumafuji just touched down to not hurt himself, could’ve easily kept the hand up and let Hakuhō fall first. Edited March 23, 2014 by ALAKTORN
yorikiried by fate Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 I thought the Mono-ii was not only who touched down first but also who was in a losing position when the touch happened. Hakuho was falling outside from Harumafuji's move and his hand landing was blocked from some of the judges view. Still a extra bout keeps the crowds happy and the YDC off Harumafuji's back so I guess silver lining all round. Congratulations Kakuryu! Exciting basho. In every bout not including the highest ranking gyoji this would have been a clear reversal of the original decision. 2
yorikiried by fate Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Edit: by the way, I thought Harumafuji was robbed in the first match, myself. Looked like shini-tai to me, Harumafuji just touched down to not hurt himself, could’ve easily kept the hand up and let Hakuhō fall first. That doesn't matter at all.
ALAKTORN Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Edit: by the way, I thought Harumafuji was robbed in the first match, myself. Looked like shini-tai to me, Harumafuji just touched down to not hurt himself, could’ve easily kept the hand up and let Hakuhō fall first. That doesn't matter at all. Last I checked, it did. It’s how someone won a bout a few basho back, and the reason why I know there’s a rule that if you touch down to slow the fall so that your opponent doesn’t hurt himself, it’s still a win for you. Granted, I recall the rule was just about protecting the opponent, not yourself, but still. 1
shimodahito Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) I understand both the promote/don't promote opinions for kakuryu. a 14-1 jun-yusho + a 14-1 yusho (by two wins) = promote. it's very possible. what if it was: a 12-3 jun-yusho + 14-1 yusho (by two wins)? (I would vote no promote) a 13-2 jun-yusho + 14-1 yusho (by two wins)? (I would vote no promote) a 14-1 jun-yusho + 14-1 jun-yusho? (I would vote no promote) a 14-1 jun-yusho + 14-1 yusho (by playoff)? (I would vote no promote) a 14-1 jun-yusho + 14-1 yusho (by one win)? (I would vote maybe promote) and will they consider his other ozeki records? he only had more than 10 wins one other time, and that was Aki Basho 2012..... Edited March 23, 2014 by shimodahito 1
ronnie Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Looked like shini-tai to me, Harumafuji just touched down to not hurt himself, could’ve easily kept the hand up and let Hakuhō fall first. This is the guy who landed on his head earlier in the basho to avoid losing a bout. The hand down should have cost him.
Asashosakari Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) Ozeki with back to back 14-1's (or better): Link If ever there was a case that justified the phrasing "yusho or equivalent" in the promotion guideline, this is it. Edited March 23, 2014 by Asashosakari 7
Pandaazuma Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Don't get all the Kakuryu bashing. He's fulfilled the requirements laid down pre-basho. He beat Hakuho in both tournaments and Harumafuji this time. So what if he ends up being a 'weak' yokozuna...that's his business. It seems to me that many expect any promotee to be a Hakuho or Asashoryu, two of the greatest ever. And precedents in sumo last just about as long as until the next generation of bosses comes along anyway. In my experience promoted lads step up their game when added responsibility lies on them. I fully expect Kakuryu to go on to win a few more yusho...but not more than 10. And that won't make him weak in my eyes. Best of luck to the lad...he deserves the promotion. 8
Akinomaki Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) NHK news7 hasn't called the promotion kakujitsu (certain) yet, many papers have. The special riji-kai for deciding on the promotion will be held - when did they last decide to postpone a promotion? NHK news6 (hidden) video: http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20140323/k10013176441000.html Edited March 23, 2014 by Akinomaki
Chinonofuji Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Don't get all the Kakuryu bashing. He's fulfilled the requirements laid down pre-basho.... It seems to me that many expect any promotee to be a Hakuho or Asashoryu, two of the greatest ever.... Best of luck to the lad...he deserves the promotion. Agreed. Rules change, for a variety of reasons; the job of the wrestlers is to fulfill the rules laid out for them at that time -- nothing more, nothing less. We are no longer in the time of Futahaguro, or Konishiki, or Takanohana. Things change. (Out of some sympathy for the extraordinarily high bar that was set for Takanohana, I personally wish the two basho in a row requirement were still in place, but that and $3 will get me a latte.) We've had a run of stellar yokozunae dating all the way back to the Taka-Ake rivalry days, but there's room for a "merely good" yokozuna along with this crazy run of all-stars. Maybe that's Kakuryu. We'll see what happens, but Kak has fulfilled the requirements set out for him. If he ends up as a Wakanohana III in the end, even that wouldn't "damage" the reputation of the yokozuna rank. And he's young enough and skilled enough that he might do quite well. Harumafuji was panned by some as a second-tier yokozuna upon his promotion, but he's stepped up his game. We'll see. I appreciate this plot twist, certainly. On another note, it's been good to see that Hakuho, who once upon a time was seen as sort of vanilla or perhaps the "anti-Asashoryu," will have an opportunity to write yet another chapter in his exceptional story. He's become so multi-faceted over the years -- from the choir boy to the scoundrel or villain at times, but definitely a leader. Now he has some up-and-coming challengers to act as the wall as he seeks to challenge Taiho's all-time mark. Can't wait to see what happens! 4
Mark.Buckton Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 setting a dangerous precedent if he is promoted without the back-to-backs. Call it the Kisenosato 'rule'..... ;-) ? Kise wouldn't have been promoted but one thing he has (had) that Kakuryu still lacks is consistency over an extended period. 1
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