Aki 13 Comments

[Kintamayama]

The NHK Broadcast with its 300 cameras doesn't have a reverse angle? What Otokonoyama posted was exactly the same angle as in the feed. No clear reverse angle video?

[Kintamayama]

Ooook, can anyone explain what the torinaoshi was for?

Bullshit torinaoshi. Populist bullshit. Of course, if NHK showed a different angle,.. Can anyone post proof of Talkshow's toe out together with Endou's body? From the stream it didn't look like that.

No proof here, but Talkie's right foot clearly was out all the way spraying sand all over, not just a toe. I can very well see a tori-naoshi here.

Sure it spayed a lot of sand, but the question remains- when? Before or after Endou touched outside? At the same time? The guys on NHK who, as we all know, are VERY diplomatic and are very careful what they say, were not convinced.

[Gernobono]

The NHK Broadcast with its 300 cameras doesn't have a reverse angle? What Otokonoyama posted was exactly the same angle as in the feed. No clear reverse angle video?

there was a reverse angle slowmotion...but unbelievably the head of a spectator fully covered the spot tokushoryu's foot touched outside....from the movement without seeing the foot a tori-nashi looked ok.......and it simply was an isamiashi and not a protecting step outside

[Kintamayama]

The NHK Broadcast with its 300 cameras doesn't have a reverse angle? What Otokonoyama posted was exactly the same angle as in the feed. No clear reverse angle video?

Are you calling into question Kintanofuji's opinion? ;-)

I only believe my eyes and still find it unbelievable there is no reverse angle shot.. I call into question my own opinions on a daily basis.

I still smell a PR rat.

[Kintamayama]

there was a reverse angle slowmotion...but unbelievably the head of a spectator fully covered the spot tokushoryu's foot touched outside....from the movement without seeing the foot a tori-nashi looked ok.......and it simply was an isamiashi and not a protecting step outside

That is not the question-the timing is the question. Endou looked to me as being out first, so the isamiashi and the fact it wasn't a protective step is irrelevant-you have to step out FIRST to be isamiashi and that is what I'm questioning. I have yet to see anything close to conclusive that says otherwise.

[Kintamayama]

The NHK Broadcast with its 300 cameras doesn't have a reverse angle? What Otokonoyama posted was exactly the same angle as in the feed. No clear reverse angle video?

Are you calling into question Kintanofuji's opinion? ;-)

I only believe my eyes and still find it unbelievable there is no reverse angle shot.. I call into question my own opinions on a daily basis.

I still smell a PR rat.

Not to mention the overhead camera looking down on the dohyo.

Exactly-forgot about that one. Like security cameras that conveniently don't work at the right moment. Rat is getting larger by the minute...

[Asojima]

Always watch the feet. Endo's first contact is right thigh against the tawari, maybe even his right ankle a bit earlier.

[Asashosakari]

That's more like it, but just that induces the thought that Endo had to win today to justify that pairing - and therefore a "present" tori-naoshi.

Err, why? What makes Endo at 9-3 a much "better" komusubi opponent than Endo at 8-4? It's a big stretch and pretty unjustified either way for an M13. They've scheduled him as though he was ranked around M7. That they've made the match at all indicates to me that they didn't particularly care what his record would be at the time of the bout. Edited September 26, 2013 by Asashosakari

[Akinomaki]

That's more like it, but just that induces the thought that Endo had to win today to justify that pairing - and therefore a "present" tori-naoshi.

Err, why? What makes Endo at 9-3 a much "better" komusubi opponent than Endo at 8-4? It's a big stretch and pretty unjustified either way for an M13. They've scheduled him as though he was ranked around M7. That they've made the match at all indicates to me that they didn't particularly care what his record would be at the time of the bout.

Because a 9-3 Endo appears on the list of the tournament leaders in the news - and that justifies high ranked opponents.

[Akinomaki]

Looked a little closer to a draw on the regular NHK broadcast, but maybe not definitive.

Looking at the NHK video the isami-ashi is obvious. I agree now that the tori-naoshi can be justified, but still most other rikishi wouldn't have got one - certainly not Kotooshu.

[Akinomaki]

Masunoyama was fighting with a lightly strained back lately, his chronic back pain resurfacing and largely contributing to the 4 losses in a row, which he stopped at last today.

[Kintamayama]

Looked a little closer to a draw on the regular NHK broadcast, but maybe not definitive.

Looking at the NHK video the isami-ashi is obvious. I agree now that the tori-naoshi can be justified, but still most other rikishi wouldn't have got one - certainly not Kotooshu.

Is it available for viewing? Do you have a link? The isamiashi is obvious even to me, but the timing isn't..

Edited September 26, 2013 by Kintamayama

[Doitsuyama]

I have just now added the missing kimarite for the last four bouts from today and the last three all were katasukashi. That's of course the first time ever with three consecutive katasukashi in makuuchi, in fact there is only one previous day with three makuuchi katasukashi.

[Asashosakari]

Because a 9-3 Endo appears on the list of the tournament leaders in the news - and that justifies high ranked opponents.

That makes no sense as a reason for scheduling the komusubi match unless we're to assume the torikumi makers felt it was 100% that Endo would win the prior bout (or at least that it was 0% that he would lose clearly so they could rig something if needed). I'm not ready to believe that 23 people who watch sumo for a living would make such a dumb assumption. Silly levels of hype both here on the forum and in the Japanese press notwithstanding, it's just Endo, not Hakuho.

In any case, since you even now acknowledge the torinaoshi wasn't unjustified, that particular conspiracy theory has pretty much collapsed completely anyway.

[Jakusotsu]

I have just now added the missing kimarite for the last four bouts from today and the last three all were katasukashi. That's of course the first time ever with three consecutive katasukashi in makuuchi, in fact there is only one previous day with three makuuchi katasukashi.

That must have been the cause for wrecking the NSK site. B-)

[Kintamayama]

Kisenosato was called into the Kyokai offices yesterday and warned orally about his mattas. Every rikishi above Juryo who does three mattas is called in automatically now. " I couldn't match my breathing with my opponents. I want to concentrate on my tachiai," he explained a bit later.

[ronnie]

Kisenosato was called into the Kyokai offices yesterday and warned orally about his mattas. Every rikishi above Juryo who does three mattas is called in automatically now. " I couldn't match my breathing with my opponents. I want to concentrate on my tachiai," he explained a bit later.

His opponents could do themselves a favour by watching how Okinoumi negated his matta tactic this basho.

[Benevolance]

Oh, kick me in my stamen! I just realized that with Kisenosato cruising in second place, there is faint chance of a yusho and a probable chance of jun-yusho. That almost guarantees we'll have the yokozuna talks again, unless Kotoshogiku somehow nips this in the bud early.

[Kintamayama]

Endou did not come down for asageiko today. "He complained of a headache last night," said people from the stable. He is already receiving louder cheers from the fans at the KKan than the Yokozuna, says the reporter.

[Ajisen]

Guess the reporter assumed everyone knew "the" Yokozuna referred to here. Or does he have any inside knowledge or a crystal ball?

Exciting basho for the Japanese fans, nice to have a couple of contenders for the Sanyaku and gasp! Maybe the "top dog"/"king of the ring" position!! Hiro must be happy. Imagine what his linguistic gymnastics skills will have to stretch to when that happens.

[Akinomaki]

Day 12: 8152 spectators

Today it was the east side rikishi's turn for a keshō-mawashi close-up at the dohyo-iri on the stream – excellent pictures.

No article comments on the quality of the tori-naoshi decision, pictures are not many.

Just to remind about the contents of the explanation - the shimpan have some room to maneuver. First the reason: Naming the gyoji call and content, but there was a mono-ii – often they name as the reason here e. g. that the going out and down were at the same time.
Then the conference result, lately they often put it together with the reason and make it short.
Not the resulting state but the action is named in that case, not: he was out/down, but both losing actions: the going out and the falling down/collapsing are seen as having happened at the same time. They name the process, that's allows for slight deviation. And they don't say it WAS at the same time, but we SEE it that way – there could have been another opinion.

And for the shini-tai: I see it as happening all the time, just not relevant as the bout is clearly decided. It is any falling down/collapsing without control, not being able to show any resistance and not able to apply a technique to the other one - thus none in case of both throwing (nage no uchi-ai) or utchari.
The shimpan-cho doesn't use “shini-tai” in his explanation and also not “isami-ashi”.
It's mostly “tai ga ochiru/kusureru” (falling down/collapsing), but in this case “tai ga nakunaru” (total loss of posture / nakunaru also means dying – that sounds more like shini-tai than anything else, only that I thought after looking at the stream that it happened earlier/the foot out later): after the point of having completely turned into this state or being declared as such, the body doesn't need to be fully down to be declared the loser.
For the foot or toes going out it is “ashi/tsumasaki ga deru”.

I still think that the torikumi-makers were sure that Endo would win and that this influenced their decision of pairing him with Tochiozan. As for the tori-naoshi: Endo would have got a favorable treatment like that in any case, I guess.

[p2501]

Wow, what a onesided bout between Kotoshogiku and Harumafuji.

[krindel]

The Goeido roller coaster sure is on the climb again...

[Gernobono]

No article comments on the quality of the tori-naoshi decision, pictures are not many.

thank you for the pictures

for me the first one clearly shows that endo is touching the tawara with his right leg with tokushoryu's toe clearly not outside touching the ground

[Asashosakari]

I still think that the torikumi-makers were sure that Endo would win and that this influenced their decision of pairing him with Tochiozan.

Then you must be believing that the shimpan crew is either too stupid for words or completely brainwashed by the Endo hype. This type of pre-scheduling (overperforming maegashira against lower sanyaku or even ozeki) "goes wrong" all the time in the bout that takes place before it, no matter how good the maegashira in question has looked in his previous bouts. I'm pretty astonished that you believe they're so immune to learning from experience.

And by the same logic, I guess they were also sure he would be losing to Tochiozan today since they've only given him Shohozan for tomorrow, not Myogiryu or Goeido... I''ll keep sticking with my assessment that they simply wanted to give Endo a showcase bout, and they did so at the point when it made the most sense, namely right after he achieved kachikoshi. (Again, this is something they do all the time, just normally not with somebody ranked as low as M13.)

Edited September 27, 2013 by Asashosakari