Then there were just 2

[sekihiryu]

If if drops down to join Tochiazuma, that will leave only two Ozeki and one Yokozuna. It will be pretty quiet at the top of the ziggurat (Holiday feeling...)

[Jesinofuji]

This was a hard one to call. Musoyama becomes Robomusoyama when in Kadoban. He finds a way to scrape out a KK against all odds. I've voted yes in similar polls and Musoyama has defied my predictions every time.

But even he, like all Ozeki, cannot remain at Ozeki forever. He will eventually lose his rank and now is as good a time as any. Its gotten to the point where I'm expecting him to lose even against the upper maegashira, who seem to get better and better every basho.

Once again, I vote yes. Musoyama will MK and be demoted.

[hoshidango]

I like your 'maybe' & 'probably not' choices!

I wonder someone like Musoyama would consider quitting when drops from Ozeki.

Off the topic, but I think Kaio would.

[QttP]

I think that if he indeed drops from Ozeki, Musoyama should quit. Maybe he can try to regain it once in the next basho, and quit if he fails, but he definitely shouldn't continue as non-ozeki.

[Fujisan]

Will he be demoted?

No probably not-

Should he be demoted?

Yes definately.

Should he quit if demoted? No he should quit now and save us the misery.

(Holiday feeling...)

JESINOFUJI-

I have your Bench sumo-No cigar prize prize if you want me to send it to you,If not just let me know.

You can send your postal address to my private messages and I will send your prize to you.

Either way congratulations on your win. (Sign of approval)

[Asashosakari]

I voted for "probably not". His performance this past basho wasn't actively bad (the way most of his other make-koshi tournaments were), but it just wasn't enough anymore to win 8. And that without any immediately troubling injuries for once. I do think he'll squeak by once again in July, but I bet he'll drop down fairly soon after that...I wouldn't even be surprised if he's kadoban again in Kyushu.

[Manekineko]

I also voted "probably not". He never was a stellar ozeki, but he always managed to salvage his rank. And even if he drops, I think he'll keep on rockin' (Clapping wildly...) . Indeed, it seems to me that very few ozeki retired after dropping from san'yaku. (Enjoying a beer...)

[aderechelsea]

i voted "probably not" but already changed my mind...... (Clapping wildly...)

i say this tactic of his (being kadoban...being regular Ozeki....being kadoban....etc) must end someday.Even statistically speaking he cannot get a KK every time he needs one and then gat MK again ......

i say consecutive MK this time.....

(or not ? ..... (Enjoying a beer...))

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

He is driving me crazy

[Elenrian]

Oops! I didn't read the question very well! I thought the question was: "Will Musoyama keep his ozeki rank at Nagoya basho?" .So I voted "Probaly not". I think he doesn't merite this rank, because he is too weak: he is often MK, or 8/7, but when he is going to loose his rank, he ends the basho with KK. It's unfair! (In a bad mood...) (Holiday feeling...)

[Guest scarebear]

Scarebear is thinking that Musoyama could be a special for the next basho. A big MK -10 points.

Watching Muso this basho, especially against Kaio, it was apparent that they are both two big and Muso just don't have control of himself.

Time for some new ozeki anyway.

[aderechelsea]

I think he doesn't merite this rank, because he is too weak: he is often MK, or 8/7, but when he is going to loose his rank, he ends the basho with KK. It's unfair! (In a bad mood...) (Holiday feeling...)

in defence of Musoyama......

i think that it is not fair to say that he doesn't deserve the rank of Ozeki.He may be inconsistent but the aforementioned KKs when in kadoban position are well earned....And don't forget that he earned the rank of Ozeki...noone gave it to him.

i think he will eventually make two consecutive MK (considering his recent form)but he could quite possibly make a fool out of me again and finish in Nagoya with a 10-5 record ....

[Gusoyama]

My first response to this poll? "I certainly hope so." Yes, he manages to salvage his rank every time he is kyujo, but ONE 10 win basho in the last two years is unacceptable. Since becoming Ozeki, he's only strung together 30 wins in 3 straight bashos 3 times, and those are centered around his 12-3 jun-yusho in Haru '01.

2000.11 O3W 9-6

2001.01 O3W 9-6

2001.03 OW 12-3J

2001.05 OW 9-6

2001.07 OW 10-5

As you can see, thats 30, 30, and 31 wins over 3 bashos. In comparison, even oft-injured Kaio has 7 such instances, and Chiyotaikai has 10.

Musoyama has not been in Ozeki form in over 2 years. I'm hoping that the banzuke finally reflects this.

Edited to add:

Here's the hakke-yoi query supporting my evidence

There have been 16 Ozeki to average 10 wins/basho for 3 basho 3 times or less. They are as follows, with the number of 10 wins/basho for 3 basho occurences, and a Y following their name if they became Yokozuna after their last 10 wins/basho string.

Akebono-1-Y

Asahikuni-3

Asashoryu-1-Y

Chiyonoyama-3-Y

Dejima-1

Hokutoumi-3-Y

Kaiketsu-1

Kitanoumi-1-Y

Futahaguro(Kitao)-1-Y

Kotogahama-3

Musoyama-3

Taiho-3-Y

Tochiazuma-2

Tochinoumi-1-Y

Wajima-2-Y

Wakahaguro-2

This obviously does not include those Ozeki who never got a 3 basho string of 10 wins or more, such as the Fetid Carcass, who's highest 3 basho total as an Ozeki was 25 wins.

Yet more evidence that Musoyama is a sub-par Ozeki: I got curious as to how many Ozeki never got 30 wins in 3 basho as an Ozeki, so I checked that in Hakke-Yoi! as well. Here's the query for that.

Results:

Daiju

Maenoyama

Matsunobori

Mitsuneyama

Miyabiyama

Ouchiyama

Saganohana*

Shihonoumi*

* incomplete results

Add these 8 to the 7 above, and Musoyama is one of the 15 WORST Ozeki of the last 50 years.

Edited May 26, 2004 by Gusoyama

[hoshidango]

aderechelsea

i think that it is not fair to say that he doesn't deserve the rank of Ozeki.He may be inconsistent but the aforementioned KKs when in kadoban position are well earned....And don't forget that he earned the rank of Ozeki...noone gave it to him.

Yeah I support that.

Yubiquitoyama

Musoyama rather continues than quits and start as a low-payed oyakata.

Makes sense.

[Asashosakari]

I'm not going to get into the whole "does Musoyama 'deserve' his rank" debate again (that's inevitably coloured by what someone understands to be "Ozeki-level results", and we've been there before and nobody changed their mind), but I just have to point out that it's quite funny that Musoyama manages to agitate people almost as much as Asashoryu does. (Help me...)

[aderechelsea]

but I just have to point out that it's quite funny that Musoyama manages to agitate people almost as much as Asashoryu does. (Tears forming...)

i would say he is not even close ....... (Blowing up furiously...)

he tries........but he doesn't stand a chance.

Asa is the champion of hate...

[hoshidango]

This debate is more or less depeneded on the way you look at it. But isn't Musoyama lasting lot longer than others who didn't retain the rank when there were few strong guys(Ozeki/Yokozuna)?

Edited May 29, 2004 by hoshidango

[AOZORA]

I voted for probably not, because I want it to be.

Musoyama always has been a man of honor for me. Even he is injured he does not tell and show it. That's why we rarely hear about his injury. (Enjoying a beer...)

LITTLE OFF TOPIC information!

He reads and knows a lot. Last time he participated in Millionairre, the Japanese version of quiz program and reached to the final. He is amazing!!

GO MUSOYAMA!!!!

[Takanobaka]

I'd like him to, but I said probably not as well...I imagine he has a few 'favors' to pull out of his back pocket just yet....if it gets to the point where he's close to getting KK when he's facing the other Ozeki, and they're not in Yusho contention, then he'll make it....

[Kashunowaka]

I'd like him to, but I said probably not as well...I imagine he has a few 'favors' to pull out of his back pocket just yet....if it gets to the point where he's close to getting KK when he's facing the other Ozeki, and they're not in Yusho contention, then he'll make it....

Sigh ... Like last basho, you mean?

[Sasanishiki]

I wonder how having acquired the Fujishima myouseki will influence him? Will he be looking to life beyond sumo, and perhaps not be as focused on the dohyo? Perhaps this will inspire him, as his future is secure, and because he needs to pay off the money he has borrowed to buy it?

[hoshidango]

I'd like him to, but I said probably not as well...I imagine he has a few 'favors' to pull out of his back pocket just yet....if it gets to the point where he's close to getting KK when he's facing the other Ozeki, and they're not in Yusho contention, then he'll make it....

Yeah this reminded me. Weren't 7-7 guys winning with extraordinary odds at 15th day some years ago? This basho was not really so, though...

I wonder how big that "deposit trading" could be amongst wrestlers explicitly. Any strong allegation of that talked about?