Baruto

[specialweek 2]

How many ozeki have lost their rank and started all over again to get ozeki status again?

[Yubinhaad]

How many ozeki have lost their rank and started all over again to get ozeki status again?

Under the present promotion rules, the only rikishi to earn Ozeki promotion the hard way twice is Kaiketsu.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Yubinhaad

[kuroimori]

How many ozeki have lost their rank and started all over again to get ozeki status again?

I am rather query-lazy, but one example of just barely not making it back to Ozeki

despite posting a 34-11 over three consecutive basho at sanyaku

scoring double digit wins in all three of them, one of it a 14-1 douten jun-yusho)

is this former Ozeki who currently is in free fall mode

[Itachi]

How many ozeki have lost their rank and started all over again to get ozeki status again?

I am rather query-lazy, but one example of just barely not making it back to Ozeki

despite posting a 34-11 over three consecutive basho at sanyaku

scoring double digit wins in all three of them, one of it a 14-1 douten jun-yusho)

is this former Ozeki who currently is in free fall mode

Well, it was 10, 14, 10 with the first 10 being at the komusubi rank. 10 at the end doesn't seem very impressive for a big promotion like that, especially when one of the wins was a fusensho. The committee was probably holding out for at least 10 earned shiroboshi if not more.

*edit* misspelled fusensho

Edited January 26, 2013 by Itachi

[kuroimori]

How many ozeki have lost their rank and started all over again to get ozeki status again?

I am rather query-lazy, but one example of just barely not making it back to Ozeki

despite posting a 34-11 over three consecutive basho at sanyaku

scoring double digit wins in all three of them, one of it a 14-1 douten jun-yusho)

is this former Ozeki who currently is in free fall mode

Well, it was 10, 14, 10 with the first 10 being at the komusubi rank. 10 at the end doesn't seem very impressive for a big promotion like that, especially when one of the wins was a funsensho. The committee was probably holding out for at least 10 earned shiroboshi if not more.

and back then, there were still 2 (out of 4) Ozeki representing Japan.

OTOH, Miyabiyama had a much tougher task, going up against 5 Ozeki + 1 Yok (Asashoryu).

Kotoshogiku just had to face 2 Ozeki (3 in the first Ozeki-run basho) + 1 Yok (Hakuho) for a 10-5, 11-4 & 12-3J record

Kisenosato faced an average of 3 Ozeki + 1 Yok (Hakuho), posting a 10-5, 12-3J & 10-5 record

I know it is difficult to compare the above records and I also do not want to restart the discussion about which promotion was earned and which was rushed.

Somehow it only shows that some are just luckier when it comes to being in the right place at the right time.

Edited January 26, 2013 by kuroimori

[Doitsuyama]

How many ozeki have lost their rank and started all over again to get ozeki status again?

I am rather query-lazy, but one example of just barely not making it back to Ozeki

despite posting a 34-11 over three consecutive basho at sanyaku

scoring double digit wins in all three of them, one of it a 14-1 douten jun-yusho)

is this former Ozeki who currently is in free fall mode

Well, it was 10, 14, 10 with the first 10 being at the komusubi rank. 10 at the end doesn't seem very impressive for a big promotion like that, especially when one of the wins was a funsensho. The committee was probably holding out for at least 10 earned shiroboshi if not more.

and back then, there were still 2 (out of 4) Ozeki representing Japan.

OTOH, Miyabiyama had a much tougher task, going up against 5 Ozeki + 1 Yok (Asashoryu).

Kotoshogiku just had to face 2 Ozeki (3 in the first Ozeki-run basho) + 1 Yok (Hakuho) for a 10-5, 11-4 & 12-3J record

Kisenosato faced an average of 3 Ozeki + 1 Yok (Hakuho), posting a 10-5, 12-3J & 10-5 record

I know it is difficult to compare the above records and I also do not want to restart the discussion about which promotion was earned and which was rushed.

Somehow it only shows that some are just luckier when it comes to being in the right place at the right time.

Luck has something to do with it, but I think much of it is about future expectation, which were not too hot with Miyabiyama, but pretty strong with Kisenosato. Actually, I ultimately agree with both decisions despite Miyabiyama's run being stronger on the first look. It doesn't make sense to block a rikishi like 25-year-old Kisenosato with a yokozuna ceiling - I think he has shown that he is worthy of the ozeki promotion as he is considered the strongest ozeki going by game selections and last-year record. Without the promotion he still would be sekiwake while he is not that far away from a yokozuna run, his special weakness are the last five days, and if he can overcome that road block there is not much stopping him.

[Kintamayama]

Baruto is now in danger of a makekoshi- tomorrow he has Ikioi- looks easy on paper, but Ikioi is no pushover. Kotoshougiku needs a win as well and faces Kakuryuu.

[Morty]

How many ozeki have lost their rank and started all over again to get ozeki status again?

I am rather query-lazy, but one example of just barely not making it back to Ozeki

despite posting a 34-11 over three consecutive basho at sanyaku

scoring double digit wins in all three of them, one of it a 14-1 douten jun-yusho)

is this former Ozeki who currently is in free fall mode

Well, it was 10, 14, 10 with the first 10 being at the komusubi rank. 10 at the end doesn't seem very impressive for a big promotion like that, especially when one of the wins was a funsensho. The committee was probably holding out for at least 10 earned shiroboshi if not more.

and back then, there were still 2 (out of 4) Ozeki representing Japan.

OTOH, Miyabiyama had a much tougher task, going up against 5 Ozeki + 1 Yok (Asashoryu).

Kotoshogiku just had to face 2 Ozeki (3 in the first Ozeki-run basho) + 1 Yok (Hakuho) for a 10-5, 11-4 & 12-3J record

Kisenosato faced an average of 3 Ozeki + 1 Yok (Hakuho), posting a 10-5, 12-3J & 10-5 record

I know it is difficult to compare the above records and I also do not want to restart the discussion about which promotion was earned and which was rushed.

Somehow it only shows that some are just luckier when it comes to being in the right place at the right time.

Luck has something to do with it, but I think much of it is about future expectation, which were not too hot with Miyabiyama, but pretty strong with Kisenosato. Actually, I ultimately agree with both decisions despite Miyabiyama's run being stronger on the first look. It doesn't make sense to block a rikishi like 25-year-old Kisenosato with a yokozuna ceiling - I think he has shown that he is worthy of the ozeki promotion as he is considered the strongest ozeki going by game selections and last-year record. Without the promotion he still would be sekiwake while he is not that far away from a yokozuna run, his special weakness are the last five days, and if he can overcome that road block there is not much stopping him.

In retrospect the Kise decision looks spot on. His results since becoming Ozeki have been worthy of the rank, he consistently wins in the first week of the basho, and all he needs to push to the next level is a couple of wins in the second half of the second week against the Yoks. If he can knock off one of the Yoks in a couple of consecutive bashos I think he could still go to the next level. What he really needs though is a yusho. I think that would lift his confidence to the point where his talent can shine through against the top rikishi

[yorikiried by fate]

What Kisenosato needs is a tachi-ai.

[kuroimori]

What Kisenosato needs is a tachi-ai.

I was thinking exactly that before I scrolled down to your comment (Sign of approval...)

Edited January 26, 2013 by kuroimori

[Swami]

It's a shame for Baruto but he just hasn't been able to get all his injuries healed in time. I hope he can have a go at making ozeki again.

Swami

[Tsubame]

With his injuries and regarding his age, he will never come back to ozeki again.

I guess he will have two or three bashos as sanyaku, but in the end he will enqueue in the top/middle maegashira ranks, not more.

[Washuyama]

With his injuries and regarding his age, he will never come back to ozeki again.

I guess he will have two or three bashos as sanyaku, but in the end he will enqueue in the top/middle maegashira ranks, not more.

Oh, ye of little faith...

[Asashosakari]

Now that he's guaranteed to be in sanyaku next basho but without enough wins to start another ozeki run right away, he might be better off skipping Haru basho to rehab his knee and start off fresh from ~M10 in May...

[yorikiried by fate]

I think he should drop to Juryo for another 15-0 yusho.

Oh wait! Ex-Ozeki!

Oh wait! Miyabiyama!

[Tsubame]

Now that he's guaranteed to be in sanyaku next basho but without enough wins to start another ozeki run right away, he might be better off skipping Haru basho to rehab his knee and start off fresh from ~M10 in May...

Sounds like a good idea, but he also did not skip Kyushu to heal his injuries, so I cannot see the will to skip the next basho to recover...

[Swami]

He still has the power - but the problem just seems to be the chronic nature of his injuries, perhaps a bit like Kotokaze with his knee trouble.

Swami

[Asashosakari]

Now that he's guaranteed to be in sanyaku next basho but without enough wins to start another ozeki run right away, he might be better off skipping Haru basho to rehab his knee and start off fresh from ~M10 in May...

Sounds like a good idea, but he also did not skip Kyushu to heal his injuries, so I cannot see the will to skip the next basho to recover...

Skipping Kyushu would have meant conceding his ozeki rank without a fight, I think that's in a different class compared to taking the plunge from sekiwake to M10.

Of course, with his "knees may explode at any time" problem, going down to M10 probably means risking a 2-2-11 style record at that rank, too, which would mean demotion to juryo... Makes me a bit afraid he'll just hang on at as high a rank as possible without ever getting really healthy again.

[dingo]

Now that he's guaranteed to be in sanyaku next basho but without enough wins to start another ozeki run right away, he might be better off skipping Haru basho to rehab his knee and start off fresh from ~M10 in May...

If he had won enough to start an ozeki run he would've been automatically promoted with the 10-win rule anyway.

[Jaak]

Now that he's guaranteed to be in sanyaku next basho but without enough wins to start another ozeki run right away, he might be better off skipping Haru basho to rehab his knee and start off fresh from ~M10 in May...

If he had won enough to start an ozeki run he would've been automatically promoted with the 10-win rule anyway.

He was promoted on the first time after 9-12-14.

8-12-14 would sum up to 34 wins, too. Would that suffice for ozeki run?

[kuroimori]

Now that he's guaranteed to be in sanyaku next basho but without enough wins to start another ozeki run right away, he might be better off skipping Haru basho to rehab his knee and start off fresh from ~M10 in May...

If he had won enough to start an ozeki run he would've been automatically promoted with the 10-win rule anyway.

I think what was referred to here is an ozeki run starting NEXT basho.

The 10-win fast-lane re-qualification perk for Baruto expired on Day 13 of Hatsu 2013.

[Asashosakari]

Now that he's guaranteed to be in sanyaku next basho but without enough wins to start another ozeki run right away, he might be better off skipping Haru basho to rehab his knee and start off fresh from ~M10 in May...

If he had won enough to start an ozeki run he would've been automatically promoted with the 10-win rule anyway.

Well, 9-12-12 or the like would probably have been acceptable, there's no need for the first basho to be double-digits. Starting now with just 8 makes it more of an uphill battle and probably means he's at least three basho away from repromotion, not two.

[Tsubame]

Talking about repromotion is so far in future, that in my opinion, there is no need to talk about it. In his current shape that topic should forbids itselfs. He got his KK only with luck and lets first see how he performs in Natsu Basho before starting the repromotion topic. And, as writen above, a repromotion in the hard way (two times 33+ wins) happend so seldom, that I don't see it for Baruto... :(

[Jaak]

Baruto was the last new ozeki to include single digit win basho in ozeki run, but far from the only. Out of the last 21 ozeki promotions, 6 included single digit win basho, and 2 had a 8:7 result - Musashimaru (8-13-12) and Akebono (13-8-13). And the previous such ozeki before Baruto was Hakuho (sic!) at 9-13-13.