Conspiracy talk on Sumotalk ; split from Hakuho's health

[Torabayama]

I have always wondered how watching a video of a sport you have never practiced makes you qualified to judge whether a bout is staged or not...

Unfortunately conspiracy theories, speculation on back room dealings, and accusations of bout rigging are par for the course with ST and their members these days, and they can see little else. It makes their site pretty much unreadable and drains the enjoyment out of sumo, IMHO. Considering the lack activity on their boards this basho, I'm guessing I'm not alone on that opinion.

[Asabiru]

I have always wondered how watching a video of a sport you have never practiced makes you qualified to judge whether a bout is staged or not...

Unfortunately conspiracy theories, speculation on back room dealings, and accusations of bout rigging are par for the course with ST and their members these days, and they can see little else. It makes their site pretty much unreadable and drains the enjoyment out of sumo, IMHO. Considering the lack activity on their boards this basho, I'm guessing I'm not alone on that opinion.

Nope you're not alone. I never really participated over there, but I did stop visiting as a result of the conspiracy talk dominating the site's tone.

[Mark.Buckton]

Unfortunately conspiracy theories, speculation on back room dealings, and accusations of bout rigging are par for the course with ST and their members these days, and they can see little else. It makes their site pretty much unreadable and drains the enjoyment out of sumo, IMHO. Considering the lack activity on their boards this basho, I'm guessing I'm not alone on that opinion.

Oh don't worry, the boards have been empty for quite some time now. The actual reports are read by many, though.

But regarding the quote

I have always wondered how watching a video of a sport you have never practiced makes you qualified to judge whether a bout is staged or not...

I finally see the error of my ways.

Sumo Talk has had a bunch of threads dedicated to your truly so it cannot be all bad.

Torabayama is not alone though and what once promised much has delivered little. Kenji long ago abandoned Sumo Talk. Gotta feel for Mike.

Little content of any substance in the past few years apparently. I haven't visited this year but as is proven above - don't need experience to have an opinion, neh YBF.

[Mike]

Yeah, bring it on boys. If Sumotalk is so out of touch and "quiet," how do you explain these Alexa traffic rankings as of 10 minutes ago?

sumotalk.com 1,253,267

sumoforum.net 2,024,931

sumofanmag.com 25,469,422

Readers will naturally migrate to the place where they get the best, most accurate sumo analysis.

[Mark.Buckton]

Yeah, bring it on boys. If Sumotalk is so out of touch and "quiet," how do you explain these Alexa traffic rankings as of 10 minutes ago?

sumotalk.com 1,253,267

sumoforum.net 2,024,931

sumofanmag.com 25,469,422

Readers will naturally migrate to the place where they get the best, most accurate sumo analysis.

Alexa reporting is skewed towards those with the function in the browser AFAIK. Don't think you would seriously consider any forum to be less informative than SF?

And the above is apples and oranges - daily forums VS bimonthly article.

[Borislav]

Yeah, bring it on boys. If Sumotalk is so out of touch and "quiet," how do you explain these Alexa traffic rankings as of 10 minutes ago?

You can't be serious, right? What about the horny jobless guys that stumble upon your conspiracy theories through Google, because of your hidden keywords?

[Andreas21]

I consider Sumotalk articles still a good read, in particular the in-depth analyses of in-bout details. Especially, Mike presents his evidence on bout rigging thouroughly and that is always worth to consider. I don't have to agree with everything though.

Some of the comments have the undertone of "anybody who does not see the conspiracy is a jerk", and that is indeed hard to bear, along with pejorative moans about wrestlers they don't like.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Andreas21

[ryafuji]

I've never read the ST forums, but I used to read the daily reports every basho. I gave up three or four tournaments ago because I just got bored with the constant bout-throwing speculation. There's a real negative vibe over there in my opinion.

[NYC Fan]

As a voracious reader of the ST daily reports I have to say that even though the constant questioning of every significant bout does get a bit tiring I find that overall the analysis is top notch, best on the web in my opinion.

I do read SF to supplement, and there definitely is tremendous expertise on this site. I particularly enjoy posts from Kintamayama and Orion. The only issue I have is that many discussions here seem to devolve into a group of egos fighting to one-up each other on matters of minutia, and members like me ("only" been a sumo fan for 15 years, none of those in Japan) can't possibly contribute. I'm more comfortable with the slackers and ex-hippies on ST...

Just my two cents. I say both sites serve a worthy purpose and have distinct fan bases, so they should continue to co-exist peacefully (like the Yankees and the Mets). Long live ST / SF!

[Kogam]

I enjoy watching sumo. Pure and simple. Do the contributors at ST enjoy Sumo or is it just a excuse to make negative comments about the sport. Compared to the ST staff, I'm just a complete novice voicing my humble opinion, but every basho with the conspiracy theories?

Peace out.

[Kintamayama]

The theorists should be hard at work right now looking for an appropriate excuse for Kisenosato's loss today. l'm going with "They are building up the suspense to fill the seats for thel ast three days.." angle.

[Bugman]

I wasn't aware of Sumo-talk up until now, as a fairly new fan of sumo i simply typed "sumo forum" into google and found this one which i'm very happy to have done.

So i just had a quick look over at Sumo-talk and what i read baffles me a bit, it seems a few people over there are of the opinion that yaocho/match fixing is still on-going, i was under the impression the yaocho had been stamped out? or lessened?

I'm pretty naive in most matters i must admit :) it seems to me, a clueless newcomer, that Sumo has a lot of things about it left un-said, like an iceberg i see only the top, underneath lies centuries of tradition, ways, ins-and-outs, and culture which frankly i know very little about.

For my own part i am unsure whether to believe that so many matches are still fixed, i honestly don't have enough experience to make a decision regarding this matter, i do know one thing however, that i enjoy Sumo, and that possibly is the most important thing for me to hold on to.

I wish both forums every success, and would like to say here how grateful i am to the members of Sumo forum who have taught me so much :)

Edited May 17, 2012 by Bugman

[Mark.Buckton]

you won't have many answers from those that find the boogeyman under the bed Moti. YBF? quiet all of a sudden?

[Yubinhaad]

The theorists should be hard at work right now looking for an appropriate excuse for Kisenosato's loss today. l'm going with "They are building up the suspense to fill the seats for thel ast three days.." angle.

Oh no, I think this is clearly a case of "Hoho! Tochiozan obviously didn't read the script!" or "Oops! Somebody forgot to clue Tochiozan into the deal." That way, the theorist can still claim to have worked out exactly what was going to happen as early as Shonichi, but it's the rikishi themselves who have got it wrong.

[Jejima]

Kyokuteno for yusho (Applauding...)

[ronnie]

Tochiozan obviously didn't read the script

Well, one Talkie at least, (me), had Ozan to win in the sumo games. Worked out quite nicely for me too.

As far as ST is concerned, I would say that if you don't like what you read; then don't read it, as some of you here have decided. If you disagree with what you read, there's nothing to stop you logging on and discussing your point of view. Simple.

When I read threads like these, I always hear the lyrics of Simon & Garfunkels "The Boxer" (last two lines of the first verse),

"That a man hears what he want's to hear"

"And disregards the rest"

Best description of a closed mind that I can think of.

[yorikiried by fate]

Do the contributors at ST enjoy Sumo or is it just a excuse to make negative comments about the sport.

I, for one, wouldn't deem it worth spending the considerable time it actually takes me to write a report, if it was just about badmouthing people. If that was my goal, I'd join a discussion board.

Edited May 17, 2012 by yorikiried by fate

[Kuroyama]

That would have been an excellent zinger if you had not in fact joined a discussion board.

ST was actually my first online exposure to sumo apart from digging up videos on YouTube, and it was informative for awhile. At the time they were beating the "racism" drum as loudly as they could though, and I soon got tired of both it and the other cynicism they were trying to pass off as humor.

[Randomitsuki]

And here I thought that Sumotalk bashing was a thing of the past.

I am an avid reader of Sumotalk. I like most of the reports for their off-beat humor. There are even pearls of wisdom to be had among them. The focus on fixed bouts is probably a natural by-product of the daily job of not only reporting, but interpreting bouts. I disagree with almost all "grander schemes" that the writers believe to discover, but this does not detract from the feeling of being entertained. I am sure that reporting on the bouts is a labor of love, and it is also very time-consuming (unless you are Kenji). So why should we bash people who dedicate time and effort to create something sumo-related and unique?

And now: GROUP HUG!

[Fujisan]

MESSAGE DELETED.......

I decided that it was not in the spirit of THIS board and did not see the value in dragging up old arguments..

[Torabayama]

Yeah, bring it on boys. If Sumotalk is so out of touch and "quiet," how do you explain these Alexa traffic rankings as of 10 minutes ago?

Some sort of conspiracy perhaps? ;-)

[Mark.Buckton]

Tiger, I think Mike knows how those figures are achieved - with tags unconnected to the sport and Alexa only counting 'certain' visitors and not others.

Trying to muddy the waters with comparisons of daily forums and bimonthly serious articles too. Still, ST never let solid facts or points provable get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

[shumitto]

Sumo Talk was, some 6 years ago, one of my first reads in sumo along with this very forum. The insight of some writers was very good and useful, pointing the novice like me to what matters most in a sumo bout. Legs position at the tachiai, angle, overall footing, hips position, upper-lower body coordination et al. The humor was so so, with some bad taste comments like "Tosanoumi is going back to the junkyard" but the usual nicknames were maybe OK. I quit reading it some two or three years ago, though some sporadic peeks have left me with the impression they have gotten stuck in the yaocho thing.

The right of doubt, long ago a prerogative of intelectuals and the like, is now exercised by pretty much everyone. Inside sumotalk, the realm of the "cool" and "insiders", it is a "must-do", and unless one sees every and anything as fake and fixed, he is not wise enough. Affraid of looking dumb and naïve, they have taken cover in a infertile skeptical stance, rendering them hapless hostages to their own "cleverness".

Edited May 19, 2012 by shumitto