ESU VS Ukraine lawsuit

[Mark.Buckton]

Seen today on FB - ESU going legal with Ukraine.

Hope they also now look at the veritable log in their own eye though - the lack of enforcement of ESU rules on member nations.

Dear friend members and others:

This is to inform you that a law suit has been started against the organizers of European championships in Ukraine.

You can check this fact with the ESU lawyer Mr Ramoni, house of sport , Lausanne, (http://www.libra-law.ch/pages.php?pages_id=9&pPath=9&pages_type=1).

Law suit will also be against anyone claiming they are European champions following those championships.

As a treasurer, I would say to associations or individuals that plan to go in Ukraine, not to take APEX tickets or at least take an insurance in case of cancellation. The situation is serious enough but it is not necessary for associations to loose money on top of it.

François Wahl

Treasurer

ESU

[athelitextreme]

I wonder what the lawsuit is alleging?

[Kintamayama]

I wonder what the lawsuit is alleging?

Some European countries have decided they are the legitimate European Association and are holding their own tournament, calling it the European championships. The other half is doing the same. The IFS , world governing body, have recognized the breakaway bloc as the only legitimate association, prompting the second bloc to sue them.

It's really simple-the question-who are the brain police legitimate representatives?

[athelitextreme]

I appreciate the information. Which countries are in each camp?

[Mark.Buckton]

the ESU is sadly cancer-ridden in so many respects, but the IFS have more than enough faults in their own theatre of operations with statutes routinely ignored that there will be no real winners here - and any hope of even being an exhibition sport in the Olympics has taken a step backwards.

The IFS needs new leadership, and the (former?) ESU needs a thorough clean out. Both are largely jobs for the boys with little benefit ever filtering down to those interested in taking up or pushing on with amateur sumo.

[Kintamayama]

Essentially, it's the Eastern bloc (Russia, Ukraine, etc..) against the "west", which also includes Hungary, that has split inside its own organization.. There will be two European championships this summer., each one calling itself the "official" one.

We have a prominent member of one of the camps on this forum-maybe he can elaborate..

[Mark.Buckton]

and, FWIW, today the IFS told Sumo Fan Magazine - wwwsumofanmag.com - that they recognise the event in Ukraine as the European Championships in 2012.

Interesting as regards where this leaves the Hungary announcement of the former ESU's kenzo on SF.

Moderator Notice

Use of real names without explicit permission is against forum rules

Edited May 10, 2012 by Otokonoyama
removed real name

[Sasanishiki]

any hope of even being an exhibition sport in the Olympics has taken a step backwards.

I'm going a little off topic, but the Olympics did away with exhibition sports in the 1990s and moved to the two tiers of fully recognised and provisionally recognised sports that occur now. Broadly speaking, the fully recognised sports have the Olympic Games and the provisionally recognised sports have the World Games.

Exhibition sports used to be brought in by the host city/nation and was a pathway for certain sports to obtain a spot in the Olympic programme. This gave the host nations a major role in the sports that appeared in their Olympics and (possibly) thereafter. Although it was never an exhibition sport, judo's place in the Olympics owed everything to Tokyo being the host in 1964.

The IFS was working under this illusion when they made announcements that Olympic bids by Osaka (for 2008) and Tokyo (2016) would be positive for sumo. These decisions are now made centrally by the IOC and decided 7 years ahead of the Games in question. This also explains the flagging interests in some quarters of amateur sumo when it was announced in 2001 that Beijing, not Osaka, would host the 2008 Olympics.

[Orion]

any hope of even being an exhibition sport in the Olympics has taken a step backwards.

I'm going a little off topic, but the Olympics did away with exhibition sports in the 1990s and moved to the two tiers of fully recognised and provisionally recognised sports that occur now. Broadly speaking, the fully recognised sports have the Olympic Games and the provisionally recognised sports have the World Games.

Exhibition sports used to be brought in by the host city/nation and was a pathway for certain sports to obtain a spot in the Olympic programme. This gave the host nations a major role in the sports that appeared in their Olympics and (possibly) thereafter. Although it was never an exhibition sport, judo's place in the Olympics owed everything to Tokyo being the host in 1964.

The IFS was working under this illusion when they made announcements that Olympic bids by Osaka (for 2008) and Tokyo (2016) would be positive for sumo. These decisions are now made centrally by the IOC and decided 7 years ahead of the Games in question. This also explains the flagging interests in some quarters of amateur sumo when it was announced in 2001 that Beijing, not Osaka, would host the 2008 Olympics.

This makes absolute sense to me. The push to make sumo an Olympic sport came mainly from a group within amateur sumo,

(and we should be grateful to them for starting up women's sumo in Osaka).

Orion

[kenzo]

any hope of even being an exhibition sport in the Olympics has taken a step backwards.

I'm going a little off topic, but the Olympics did away with exhibition sports in the 1990s and moved to the two tiers of fully recognised and provisionally recognised sports that occur now. Broadly speaking, the fully recognised sports have the Olympic Games and the provisionally recognised sports have the World Games.

Exhibition sports used to be brought in by the host city/nation and was a pathway for certain sports to obtain a spot in the Olympic programme. This gave the host nations a major role in the sports that appeared in their Olympics and (possibly) thereafter. Although it was never an exhibition sport, judo's place in the Olympics owed everything to Tokyo being the host in 1964.

The IFS was working under this illusion when they made announcements that Olympic bids by Osaka (for 2008) and Tokyo (2016) would be positive for sumo. These decisions are now made centrally by the IOC and decided 7 years ahead of the Games in question. This also explains the flagging interests in some quarters of amateur sumo when it was announced in 2001 that Beijing, not Osaka, would host the 2008 Olympics.

On the ball as ever Sasanishki, :-) pity some people just go for sensationalism and seem to believe everthing they read on the net and then present it as as exclusive scoop.Probably understandablle for people living in a fish bowl.It so easy once again for certain be people to be very big and tough behind the safety of their computer screens .........

[kenzo]

Sasaniski on the money as ever.......................... :-D

[Mark.Buckton]

Sasaniski on the money as ever.......................... :-D

Kenzo, fully agree that Sasanishiki is on the money in this regard and has a huge depth of knowledge regarding amateur sumo, but he did start his post with "I'm going a little off topic".

The title of the thread and main theme is the lawsuit the ESU are behind VS the organisers of the Ukraine event that IS the only European Sumo Championships to be recognised by the world governing body - the IFS.

I am sure you would agree that that is simple factual information as opposed to sensationalism.

As informative and interesting as Sasanishiki's comments are, perhaps you could address the main theme of this thread - yourself an official of the former European governing body.

Thanks/

Edited May 10, 2012 by Otokonoyama
Removed name and replaced with Sumo Forum handle

[Otokonoyama]

Moderator Notice

Use of real names without a member's explicit permission is against forum rules.

[Mark.Buckton]

and in a recent twist, the head of the Hungarian sumo set-up resigned this week. He is still technically head of ESU.

The new head has announced Hungary are to attend the Ukraine event lending even more credibility to the breakaway group. This decision was taken under the former leader of the nation sumo association.

Can the former head remain president of ESU now that he is no longer a member of a member-nation himself?

[Sasanishiki]

Can the former head remain president of ESU now that he is no longer a member of a member-nation himself?

My understanding of the ESU statutes is that the position is not tied to maintaining a position in your own national federation. Some relevant statutes are:

10.3. The members of the Directing Committee shall hold office for at least four years in the position to which they were elected. At the expiry of their term Committee members may offer themselves for re-election.

　

Article 11 - President

11.1. The President is elected by the Congress. He directs the ESU and represents it before third parties.

11.2. In case of absence of the President by reason of resignation or for any other reason the Presidency shall be assumed by the first Vice President. The interim President shall serve until the next Congress where the Congress will elect a new President.

11.3 The President must comply with the ESU Statutes, Rules, Regulations and decisions. The President chairs Congresses and DC meetings. The President has the right to entrust DC members and Commissions to solve specific problems and to appoint, with the approval of the DC, temporary Working Groups.

Long-time ESU President, Gunther Romenath, was not (I believe) the head of the German federation for all of his tenure as ESU President

[Mark.Buckton]

much the same was said to me a few days ago, but also, you cannot make a bid for the presidency without being a member (not president) of a member nation. So how can you stay president without being a member of a member nation?

Will be fun to see what happens next with plans for October.

[Mark.Buckton]

kenzo, any further news on the legal case against the new, official IFS recognised Euro Sumo Union / the complaints being made to IOC?

Or the ISA (Int. Sumo Assoc) being founded in Europe to challenge the IFS? The former ESU exec Mr. Wahl mentioned this being launched in July when contacted re. this article - http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/ss20120630mb.html