Vikanohara Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 I guess it's pretty clear now we won't get to see Kokkai in Makuuchi next basho. It will be his first time in Juryo since 2003. Back then, he only stayed 4 basho in there, with nothing but KK records, even a 14-1 Yusho. Kokkai rushed from Mae-zumo to top Maegashira in no time : a little bit more than three years. With a couple of Yusho under his bealt on his way up, some may have thought the Georgian to become Ozeki at some point. But instead, he never made it further than 2x Komusubi in a row. His latest feat was the 12-3 Jun-Yusho in Haru 08, taking him back to that M1 spot, which he held a couple of times throughout his career. Though that has been the last time. Now is this game over, or will we see him again in Makuuchi ?
Pippooshu Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) I've thought the same thing. I'm really sorry about his downfall. He started from M15 rank and will be Juryo with 6-9 Make-Koshi or less. He must win 4 bouts again...maybe too difficult for this Kokkai... Edited January 19, 2011 by Pippooshu
madorosumaru Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 Not only does Kokkai have some chronic injuries, he is not well physically. He told the press, "I lost 15 kg coming into the basho. I think it could be diabetes." Well, he better have that checked out. "My sumo is awful," he added a la Bart albeit less colorfully. "I can't even put it into words. My mind is in a panic mode."
Tokyo Tom Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 I hope his health condition is not in serious- but losing 15 kg is not a good sign. Kokkai was one of the first rikishi I learned to recognize by sight when I started following sumo in 2006 (I could always predict a loss when he came to the dohyo freshly shaven) and always enjoyed his straight-forward sumo.
Kotoviki Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 I do hope he'll be ok!! He's such a wonderful guy!!! I remember so well the first time I met him some years ago at a jungyo and he recognized me from a picture and said "aren't you Tochinoshin's American friend?" Then we started talking there forever!! Most recently he told me at the Iruma Jungyo he was jealous that I gave the cutest baby ever to be in a dohyo iri to Asasekiryu. "why not me he? he said when he took a picture with her!" with my reply "well I don't have your phone number but I do have Sekiryu's! so maybe next time.." again he talked with my friend holding her baby a long time til the baby gave in and started crying! He looks scary with his beard but he is really a gentle guy!!!! PS Scott, just for the record you can't blame me for any diabetes problems with Kokkai! I have never given him sweets or cookies before!! His heya is too far away!! LOL
Washuyama Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 PS Scott, just for the record you can't blame me for any diabetes problems with Kokkai! I have never given him sweets or cookies before!! His heya is too far away!! LOL It's funny how the guilty usually proclaim their innocence before they're even accused...
Kotoviki Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 PS Scott, just for the record you can't blame me for any diabetes problems with Kokkai! I have never given him sweets or cookies before!! His heya is too far away!! LOL It's funny how the guilty usually proclaim their innocence before they're even accused... I knew you were waiting.. LOL You can blame me for Kaisei, Taikai, and EVERYONE at Kitanoumi, Onoe, Sadogatake, Onomatsu, Tokitsukaze (esp Toyonoshima) plus a host of others.. but damn Soka is over 1.5 hours from my house.. no cookies for Kokkai! :-)
shumitto Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 Kokkai might have lost 15 kg. prior to the ongoing basho but it's been a long while since the last time he looked good. He's been spiraling down for some years with the "recovery" basho being more modest and bad basho worse and worse. Still, he displays some bravery out there and he's strong-willed so this is not the end of the road.
Hakuyobaku Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 Old age. Old body. Probably will be the first "Eastern European" sekitori to retire with "honor," not expelled (or whatever the right term), like the three Russians. I expect this in about 1.5-2 years, if the body permits. Wonder if almost inevitable drop to juryo for Kokkai will be the beginning of the beginning of the end of Eastern European Sekitori as such. Like Hawaiians.
Pippooshu Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) Old age. Old body. Probably will be the first "Eastern European" sekitori to retire with "honor," not expelled (or whatever the right term), like the three Russians. I expect this in about 1.5-2 years, if the body permits.Wonder if almost inevitable drop to juryo for Kokkai will be the beginning of the beginning of the end of Eastern European Sekitori as such. Like Hawaiians. Sometime ago I have read of an injury on his back, such to force to change him his sumo. But Kokkai was like a bison, like a very good guy for Tsuki/Oshi- zumo and not so much for Yori-zumo, I think... (Shaking head...) Edited January 19, 2011 by Pippooshu
Yokotanoharry Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 I have had him on almost all of my BS teams. Maybe good excuse for my own elevator career.
madorosumaru Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Kokkai was forced out by Tenho for his 9th defeat. It is now almost certain that he will be demoted to juryo next basho. Asked about losing the makuuchi status which he has held for 43 basho, the Georgian replied sadly, "[because of the injured elbow] I can't use my right arm at all."
Blue_Wolf Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 I remember a hot thread over Kokkai and Hakuho. It was about their first ever clash, i think. Back then some member were saying he was better rikishi then maegashira Hakuho, though. His brutal tsuppari attack will be missed.
shumitto Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 Kokkai, so far, is JUST like Kakizoe in what way ? if it is the record, then remember they are one division apart.
Jakusotsu Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 Kokkai, so far, is JUST like Kakizoe in what way ? if it is the record, then remember they are one division apart. I guess Haruibono was looking at the bigger picture. Their careers have been quite similar, and they were repeatedly reported to be best buddies since amasumo.
Jejima Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 As I have stated before, I am not his biggest fan. Why? A few years ago, I was attending the Osaka basho with an ex-girlfriend (from Hong Kong). She was busy taking a photo of the banners outside the gymnasium by the side of the nearby traffic lights. By chance, Kokkai happened to be crossing at the same time (we were waiting for the red light to change) - when he raised his hand, and said (in English) "No photo!" The fact that she wasn't even taking a photo of him (she would not have known him from your next whatever), is not that important. We had not even asked him to pose - and we were all waiting for the lights to change, so he would have had to have stood there anyways - and he wasn't even that well-established in Makunouchi at that time. I have heard from others (who I respect) that he is a nice guy - but that first impression still remains.
Kotoviki Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 As I have stated before, I am not his biggest fan. Why? A few years ago, I was attending the Osaka basho with an ex-girlfriend (from Hong Kong). She was busy taking a photo of the banners outside the gymnasium by the side of the nearby traffic lights. By chance, Kokkai happened to be crossing at the same time (we were waiting for the red light to change) - when he raised his hand, and said (in English) "No photo!" The fact that she wasn't even taking a photo of him (she would not have known him from your next whatever), is not that important. We had not even asked him to pose - and we were all waiting for the lights to change, so he would have had to have stood there anyways - and he wasn't even that well-established in Makunouchi at that time. I have heard from others (who I respect) that he is a nice guy - but that first impression still remains. I remember talking about this with you!! I respect your opinion not to like him!! As you say, first impressions are everything!! I think I told you at the time that he has always been quite nice to me, maybe because from the time he met me we were introduced as "friend of Tochinoshin" but maybe not... In any case I have my own rikishi I don't like due to first impressions and due to bad impressions later on!! I think some people may like people I don't because that rikishi has never done anything to them! It is a shame that he said that to you both as he lost at least two potential fans (which he may be desperate for as he slides down the banzuke..) Wish all rikishi could figure this out...
Jonosuke Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 Kokkai, so far, is JUST like Kakizoe Funny you say that. Despite their background, Kakizoe and Kokkai have known each other even before they joined Ozumo and climbed up banzuke together battling each other while remaining good friends. I suppose it's natural they fall together. Kakizoe definitely lost most of his mojo however Kokkai's main issue this basho has been his inability to use right elbow.
Haruibono Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 Kokkai, so far, is JUST like Kakizoe in what way ? if it is the record, then remember they are one division apart. It's not the record, it's the part where they're both going downhill ;-)
Vikanohara Posted January 23, 2011 Author Posted January 23, 2011 Having compared both their careers, I must say they look very similar indeed (apart from their starting point) : http://sumoreference.com/Rikishi.aspx?r=1187 (Kokkai) http://sumoreference.com/Rikishi.aspx?r=1204 (Kakizoe) Even in the way they are dropping out of Makuuchi. With two big blows in a row.
madorosumaru Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 It is quite obvious from the videos, which Kinta has so courageously provided, that Kokkai cannot use his right arm effectively. He can't do any tsuppari; he can't push off with authority at tachiai. He even has trouble grabbing a mawashi hold. It is also well-known that the Georgian veteran has had a chronically bad neck for quite some time. So, he can't hit head-first. In addition, he told the press earlier this basho that he had lost 15 kg and he thinks it is due to diabetes, which we know is quite debilitating. So, here we have a rikishi in a weakened physical state, who can't hit or push off at tachiai. He cannot use his arm for proper oshi. When he is in yotsu, he is incapable of attack. Is there any wonder he was 3-12 in Hatsu Basho after going 4-11 in Kyushu? Kokkai will be 30 in March. His body is in shambles. His injuries are chronic and will never fully heal. As a sekitori, he is making a heckuva lot more money than he can in any other endeavor. He will persevere as long as that bi-monthly check continues to come in.
Hakuyobaku Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 Kokkai will be 30 in March. His body is in shambles. His injuries are chronic and will never fully heal. As a sekitori, he is making a heckuva lot more money than he can in any other endeavor. He will persevere as long as that bi-monthly check continues to come in. That's about it. Can't speak authoritatively about other gaijin [from Europe], but Georgians' incentive to join ozumo, at least in the beginning is primarily financial. They make much more than they could have in any other wrestling kind-of sport. Also, you have to consider average wages in Georgia, which are quite low. Imagine how many people (relatives, friends, familes) Kokkai, for example, can support doing ozumo in Japan, still considering his family is the one who has been displaced from native Abkhazia in early 90s (also looking at this). So yes, he will stay there as long as he can eke out that stay in the paid ranks, and maybe my earlier expectation (1.5-2 years) was even too optimistic. The first part of the post also explains the fact that he didn't have a comprehensive operation/rehab on his elbows or any other body parts. It's simply too risky that he will drop too far, have trouble climbing back and can't send back the money. So, don't expect a Futeno.
Haruibono Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 With Kokkai's 3-12 at East Maegashira 15, it's pretty clear he's heading to Juryo.Where abouts in Juryo, though :-(
Jakusotsu Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 Where abouts in Juryo, though :-( Right into Toyozakura's cell phone.
.jpeg.03d9e28d8a0d71e8411854369a9f9b91.jpeg)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now