Takekuma-Beya folds

[Kintamayama]

Takekuma Oyakata, former Sekiwake Kurohimeyama, has announced that the heya will close, after the retirement of its only deshi, Hagurokuni. " I hope to remain in the Kyokai, perhaps as an affiliated Oyakata with another heya", he said. This leaves us with 54 heya.

[Yoavoshimaru]

This wasn't really a surprise, since there weren't any new deshi there for a while. Are there any heya that really need another oyakata?

[Kaikitsune Makoto]

Takekuma-beya's rikishi used to train at Tomozuna-beya. Hagurokuni's brother was the only other rikishi there before he retired and got into trouble with the law.

[Yangnomazuma]

does this open it up for a new Heya to spring up in its place? Does it mean that we'll just have to "make do" with one fewer Heya?

[Zenjimoto]

IIRC, this is the heya that Ryan was supposed to join, and which then was slated to be merged into Tomozuna at a later time, cleverly circumnavigating the one-foreigner rule. I think even then there was only one other rikishi there...

[Manekineko]

does this open it up for a new Heya to spring up in its place? Does it mean that we'll just have to "make do" with one fewer Heya?

There is a fixed number of possible oyakata (105+ichidai), not possible heya. In theory, there could be five-six huuge heya and no small fry at all, with all other oyakata being just associate oyakata. But associate oyakata can always split off from their native heya and start a new one, like Terao/Shikoroyama-oyakata split of from his father's and the brother's Izutsu-beya to found Shikoroyama-beya.

[Doitsuyama]

I think a splitting Oyakata also needs the blessing from his shishō to do so.

[Naganoyama]

But associate oyakata can always split off from their native heya and start a new one, like Terao/Shikoroyama-oyakata split of from his father's and the brother's Izutsu-beya to found Shikoroyama-beya.

...although only with the permission of the Oyakata, as the Takanohana/Takatoriki story showed.

:-P

Edit: I must have had this window open for a while so I didn't see that Doitsu-san had already replied to this.

Edited March 31, 2004 by Naganoyama

[Asashosakari]

There is a fixed number of possible oyakata (105+ichidai), not possible heya. In theory, there could be five-six huuge heya and no small fry at all, with all other oyakata being just associate oyakata.

While perusing the SML archives a couple of weeks ago (can't find the post anymore, unfortunately), I read that Dewanoumi-ichimon was in fact handled that way until relatively recently, i.e. a few decades ago...as one huge heya (Dewanoumi, of course) that embodied the entire ichimon in itself. Is that true?

[Yubiquitoyama]

There is a fixed number of possible oyakata (105+ichidai), not possible heya. In theory, there could be five-six huuge heya and no small fry at all, with all other oyakata being just associate oyakata.

While perusing the SML archives a couple of weeks ago (can't find the post anymore, unfortunately), I read that Dewanoumi-ichimon was in fact handled that way until relatively recently, i.e. a few decades ago...as one huge heya (Dewanoumi, of course) that embodied the entire ichimon in itself. Is that true?

I'm not entirely sure whether the heya used several different buildings or so, but it was indeed one huge heya (at one point occupying the whole east side of the top division), and they did not accept oyakata to establish their own heya at all. It was not until rather recently this practice was changed (1970s or so).

[Asashosakari]

I'm not entirely sure whether the heya used several different buildings or so, but it was indeed one huge heya (at one point occupying the whole east side of the top division), and they did not accept oyakata to establish their own heya at all. It was not until rather recently this practice was changed (1970s or so).

Very interesting...thanks for confirming. :-)

That certainly explains how Dewanoumi-beya managed to have sekitori in Makuuchi for 100 years straight...not so difficult if your heya includes a fifth or more of all active rikishi. :-P

[Yoavoshimaru]

That must have made the torikumi exceptionally difficult, if half the rikishi couldn't fight each other (Laughing...)

[Asashosakari]

That must have made the torikumi exceptionally difficult, if half the rikishi couldn't fight each other (Laughing...)

I'm pretty sure this must have happened back when all bouts were still a strict East side vs. West side affair, so even if only half the East side would have been Dewanoumi guys (instead of all of it), it wouldn't have made a difference for the torikumi.

But you're bringing up a good point...ever since only rikishi from the same stable can't fight each other (i.e. since heya-betsu-so-atari was instituted) what was the largest number of Makuuchi rikishi from one stable? Was it Futagoyama with 10 in the early 90s, or was there another even bigger one before?

[Kintamayama]

Takekuma Oyakata will join Tomozuna beya as an affiliated Oyakata, as soon as it will be acknowledged. He will remain in the Tatsunami-Isegahama Ichimon. "If a deshi comes along, I may re-open the heya", he said .

[Zuikakuyama]

Thank you for the update.