Scandal fallout

[Kintamayama]

The Aomori jungyo scheduled for August 12th has been canceled. Sumo world problems cited. A thousand tickets have already been sold and will be refunded. "We will see how the Sumo Kyokai deals with these problems. If they manage to fix the problems, we will consider resuming the jungyo in the future," said the guy.

Edited June 29, 2010 by Kintamayama

[Kintamayama]

All Kotomitsuki souvenirs will be removed from the Kokugikan shops, including his food package.

He has been stripped of his "Tottori goodwill ambassador" status.

[Asashosakari]

All Kotomitsuki souvenirs will be removed from the Kokugikan shops, including his food package.

He has been stripped of his "Tottori goodwill ambassador" status.

Also no longer ambassador for his hometown (by voluntary resignation, wink, nudge): Chiyohakuho.

[Kotoviki]

The latest Scandal fallout...

Otake oyakata announced his divorce tonight!

He says that he and his wife talked about it, their kids will enter the sumo world soon and he quoted "my kids don't need a bad dad" (You are going off-topic...)

So they will divorce....

I wonder what the real story is!!!

[Jonosuke]

Not sure if this is Otake's own doing or from external pressure though.

When he inherited Taiho Beya, he got everything basically free of charge as he happened to have been married to his daughter. With Ozumo inter-relations overlapping family relations (this happens quite often in Ozumo), the cleanest way to extricate himself from all tangles of fiduciary duty, the simplest is to, unfortunately, to severe the family tie.

With his self confessed (professed) penchant for heavy gambling since who knows when, his wife as well as his father in law must have known of his obsession for long time but they must endured it for the sake of Ozumo. And now the last barrier is gone, this became pretty much a foregone conclusion.

[Peterao]

Conversely, the city of Yanagigawa announced today that they are still supporting Kotoshogiku. "The extent of his involvement was small, and it appears that he will avoid punishment by the Kyokai" says the mayor. "It seems that it will be decided for certain after the July 4th meeting, but if the Nagoya Basho goes on as scheduled, we would like to continue supporting him."

His koenkai is also in the process of determining whether or not to go through with launching fireworks on the days of his victories in Nagoya.

Edited July 1, 2010 by Peterao

[Otokonoyama]

Not sure if this is Otake's own doing or from external pressure though.

When he inherited Taiho Beya, he got everything basically free of charge as he happened to have been married to his daughter. With Ozumo inter-relations overlapping family relations (this happens quite often in Ozumo), the cleanest way to extricate himself from all tangles of fiduciary duty, the simplest is to, unfortunately, to severe the family tie.

With his self confessed (professed) penchant for heavy gambling since who knows when, his wife as well as his father in law must have known of his obsession for long time but they must endured it for the sake of Ozumo. And now the last barrier is gone, this became pretty much a foregone conclusion.

This kind of situation is relatively common in Japan. For example, a man runs a car dealership, and his wife is a civil servant. His business goes under, and creditors start sniffing around for assets to seize. The couple file for a divorce (very simple to do in Japan), and the wife is no longer legally liable for any of her "ex's" debt. The couple often continues to live together, and only family and close friends know that they are technically divorced.

[Kintamayama]

Ootake Oyakata's yusho portrait which was donated by him to an elementary school in Hyogo, Kobe, will be removed, it was decided today. Since the story broke, the portrait was covered up. Now it's going to be taken down.

[Kotoviki]

Not sure if this is Otake's own doing or from external pressure though.

When he inherited Taiho Beya, he got everything basically free of charge as he happened to have been married to his daughter. With Ozumo inter-relations overlapping family relations (this happens quite often in Ozumo), the cleanest way to extricate himself from all tangles of fiduciary duty, the simplest is to, unfortunately, to severe the family tie.

With his self confessed (professed) penchant for heavy gambling since who knows when, his wife as well as his father in law must have known of his obsession for long time but they must endured it for the sake of Ozumo. And now the last barrier is gone, this became pretty much a foregone conclusion.

This kind of situation is relatively common in Japan. For example, a man runs a car dealership, and his wife is a civil servant. His business goes under, and creditors start sniffing around for assets to seize. The couple file for a divorce (very simple to do in Japan), and the wife is no longer legally liable for any of her "ex's" debt. The couple often continues to live together, and only family and close friends know that they are technically divorced.

Yes, this is true in Japan but this case I'm sure is different. Taiho wants him out of the family not to tarnish it anymore! The Kyokai wants him to take the fall and as much pressure from the others as he can. Again common in Japan.

I am quite certain that the oyakata have asked him to claim all responsibility and even though he'll be kicked out he will be financially taken care of some. and I'm sure that whatever agreement is made between him and Taiho also includes financial agreements.

It would be hard for them to continue to live together at the house attached to the heya if he is kicked out of sumo and his kids will be entering the heya so it isn't as though they can disappear and move to a remote town...

I could be wrong but.... ???

[Babaryutaikai]

I posted this under a different thread, but thought it may be interesting here, as well:

'Well, Ross Mihara just posted this on his Facebook page:

"My hunch is my TV station, NHK will not air the July sumo tourney live. That'd be a first. When it conducted a survey, something like 90% of respondents were against the basho being held. But there are several compromise options, such as only showing the bouts on the nightly highlight show. We'll find out for sure July 2 - 4.'

Of course, we all know that Ross is one of the regular English language play-by-play commentators. "

[Jonosuke]

The Kyokai is trying to show its deference to former Taiho by not folding the heya like they uncaring did to Kise but I am still curious to know how the share is being transferred. If it continues as Otake Beya, does former Dairyu rent the share from who? Assuming Otake is jomei, Otake will need to give up the share but to whom he is returning the share?

Dairyu used to be an Otake once so it's probably nothing strange for him but can Taiho buy back Otake share? Did Takatoriki buy Otake with Taiho's money? Or all for his debts, can Otake ostensibly give back the share to Taiho and then Taiho can give it to Dairyu with some string attached? These share transfers despite millions of yen change hands are never transparent and it is one of major reasons the Kyokai is more like a private boys club.

Despite being a decent recruit for Taiho, Dairyu's accomplishment in Ozumo is nothing spectacular but like Ri and others, he has a following in the Korean community in Japan despite becoming a Japanese national (the only way to remain in Ozumo as an oyakata) but he has no financial resource or Ozumo prestige to buy a share so I doubt he can do it in all his own. So the only way he can inherit Otake is getting the gift from Taiho or by some other way that never likely to be clear to anyone outside.

[Kintamayama]

Did Takatoriki buy Otake with Taiho's money?

Didn't he inherit it by marrying Taihou daughter number three?

[ilovesumo]

Did Takatoriki buy Otake with Taiho's money?

Didn't he inherit it by marrying Taihou daughter number three?

Could have bee a present, could have been a deal. We dunno.

[Jonosuke]

Did Takatoriki buy Otake with Taiho's money?

Didn't he inherit it by marrying Taihou daughter number three?

You are right. Taiho had the share since 1969 and for all intents and purposes, his daughter controlled it and Takatoriki was more or less renting it, just like Ozutsu and guys before him. Now the relationship is severed, his daughter "rents" it to Dairyu who will not need to pay a rent to Takanohana but I assume to Taiho's daughter even though he can't take over a heya with a "rented" share but I suppose it will be rented free so ostensibly not renting it. Regardless even in the standards of murky world of Ozumo, you really can't call all these transactions kosher.

Edited July 1, 2010 by Jonosuke

[Peterao]

The Kyokai is considering to offer unconditional refunds to anyone who has already purchased tickets for the Nagoya Basho. It would be the first time that they have ever done so.

[Asashosakari]

Ootake Oyakata's yusho portrait which was donated by him to an elementary school in Hyogo, Kobe, will be removed, it was decided today. Since the story broke, the portrait was covered up. Now it's going to be taken down.

Taking the bridge to nowhere:

[Peterao]

I never imagined that some of the most prescient words about sumo would come from The Economist magazine:

http://www.economist.com/node/16485499?sto...99&fsrc=rss

The scandal says a lot about modern Japan, a country undergoing a sweeping transition from informal, implicit rules to formal, explicit ones. Institutions long closed to public scrutiny are becoming more accountable. In politics this is seen in the way that the Democratic Party of Japan last year overturned more than 50 years of rule by the Liberal Democratic Party, and now hopes to neuter the bureaucracy. In business it is visible in new rules requiring that public companies have independent directors and disclose executive pay over

Edited July 2, 2010 by Peterao

[nomadwolf]

To those who say that we shouldn't be punishing the innocent rikishi, I say that there are no innocent rikishi. Either they were engaged in illegal gambling, or they knew that people were engaging in illegal gambling, and did nothing to stop it. The whole culture needs to be rebuilt from the ground up to fit within the new Japan.

No doubt that the jonidan and sandanme rikishi should've stepped in to "do something" about the gambling sekitori.

Thankfully, Japanese culture, and especially sumo, don't have a hierarchical structure...

[Peterao]

To those who say that we shouldn't be punishing the innocent rikishi, I say that there are no innocent rikishi. Either they were engaged in illegal gambling, or they knew that people were engaging in illegal gambling, and did nothing to stop it. The whole culture needs to be rebuilt from the ground up to fit within the new Japan.

No doubt that the jonidan and sandanme rikishi should've stepped in to "do something" about the gambling sekitori.

Thankfully, Japanese culture, and especially sumo, don't have a hierarchical structure...

If what you're implying is that they _couldn't_ stop illegal activity even if they wanted to, then that's even more proof that the current system is beyond repair.

That's the way they've always done things, but they can't do them that way anymore.

[ilovesumo]

To those who say that we shouldn't be punishing the innocent rikishi, I say that there are no innocent rikishi. Either they were engaged in illegal gambling, or they knew that people were engaging in illegal gambling, and did nothing to stop it. The whole culture needs to be rebuilt from the ground up to fit within the new Japan.

The article says it very well.

How can they not be innocent if the "rules" in their "world" said there was nothing wrong with it?

Yup, the system sux, not the boys who enter as kids and become adults inside of this world.

Edited July 2, 2010 by ilovesumo

[Kotoviki]

To those who say that we shouldn't be punishing the innocent rikishi, I say that there are no innocent rikishi. Either they were engaged in illegal gambling, or they knew that people were engaging in illegal gambling, and did nothing to stop it. The whole culture needs to be rebuilt from the ground up to fit within the new Japan.

No doubt that the jonidan and sandanme rikishi should've stepped in to "do something" about the gambling sekitori.

Thankfully, Japanese culture, and especially sumo, don't have a hierarchical structure...

If what you're implying is that they _couldn't_ stop illegal activity even if they wanted to, then that's even more proof that the current system is beyond repair.

That's the way they've always done things, but they can't do them that way anymore.

It is not just sumo, but there is no way a junior teacher will turn in a senior teacher.. no way the office clerk turns in the management it just doesn't happen here.... There is no way a jonokuchi rikishi could turn in the ozeki for gambling... and there is no way to be sure they all knew what is going on. Especially if they are not the sekitori's tsukebito, the sekitori doesn't live in the heya, it is impossible to know who knows what. I was surprised that one rikishi didn't know that a sekitori in his heya smoked. He didn't smoke in the heya and not at heya events only in private. Only his tsukebito knew and he wasn't telling everyone else. Privacy does exist!

[Asashosakari]

BTW, according to multiple unnamed directors quoted in a Sports Hochi story the other day they haven't actually decided on how to treat the suspended rikishi as far as the banzuke is concerned, and the possibility of leaving their ranks unchanged for Aki will be up for discussion. I'm pretty incredulous that it could possibly be anything other than a straight 0-0-7/15 demotion, and so seems to be the Hochi reporter, who did at least manage to find another (equally anonymous) riji who flatly stated, "If they are absent from the basho, their ranking must drop. It's impossible to leave it unchanged." Still, there appears to be a non-zero probability of a "creative" solution here. Blergh.

[Jonosuke]

To those who say that we shouldn't be punishing the innocent rikishi, I say that there are no innocent rikishi. Either they were engaged in illegal gambling, or they knew that people were engaging in illegal gambling, and did nothing to stop it. The whole culture needs to be rebuilt from the ground up to fit within the new Japan.

This statement isn't based on the fact. How many rikishi are implicated in this baseball gambling? A couple of dozen at most. There are one thousand members of the Kyokai so it's around 3%. In any organization whether you are talking about rogue traders with a major bank or whatever, if some act is committed by a small select group of people, the rest really don't know. This is despite the fact they all work and (live) in one big place.

It happens all the time in any society. When a crime is committed and the guilty party is found. the people in the community all are upset something like that could happen in their neighborhood. People bet in outcome of some events rather innocently and they never suspect an organized gang is behind it if the money is changing hands among themselves, never thinking of illegality of it but more like treating it as a friendly bet.

There are innocent rikishi who had no idea what was going on. Just look around you, each individual is different, some like it hot and some like it cold. Action or conduct of the few should not be painted or brushed across the whole or we are all condemned of guilt by association as all of us who support Ozumo are guilty as well for letting the Kyokai tolerate their conduct for so long by keep going to basho or watching on TV or reading about on papers. Then it's not about the Kyokai holding the Nagoya or NHK covering it, it's about us stop buying tickets, stop going to asa geiko or associate ourselves with rikishi, oyakata or anyone else connected with Ozumo. The onus is not only on them but on us as well.

[Peterao]

To those who say that we shouldn't be punishing the innocent rikishi, I say that there are no innocent rikishi. Either they were engaged in illegal gambling, or they knew that people were engaging in illegal gambling, and did nothing to stop it. The whole culture needs to be rebuilt from the ground up to fit within the new Japan.

This statement isn't based on the fact. How many rikishi are implicated in this baseball gambling? A couple of dozen at most. There are one thousand members of the Kyokai so it's around 3%.

It could be that 27 people bet on baseball. Or it could be closer to 500. The extent of the "investigation" is basically asking people "did you bet on baseball?" Kotomitsuki was asked that question previously and he replied "no", so that method of gathering hard information has already proven to be unreliable.

Just because we want to believe these numbers (like I would have preferred to believe BP's original oil spill numbers!) doesn't mean that we should.

[nomadwolf]

BTW, according to multiple unnamed directors quoted in a Sports Hochi story the other day they haven't actually decided on how to treat the suspended rikishi as far as the banzuke is concerned, and the possibility of leaving their ranks unchanged for Aki will be up for discussion. I'm pretty incredulous that it could possibly be anything other than a straight 0-0-7/15 demotion, and so seems to be the Hochi reporter, who did at least manage to find another (equally anonymous) riji who flatly stated, "If they are absent from the basho, their ranking must drop. It's impossible to leave it unchanged." Still, there appears to be a non-zero probability of a "creative" solution here. Blergh.

No freaking doubt. Otherwise it'll be more of a reward for some of them. "Hey, you can rest your injuries for nearly 4 months without any loss in rank". WTF?

If they're worried about excessive banzuke holes, they can consider to range their demotion from 0-15 to 5-10, but even a 5-10 is insanely lenient....