World Cup 2010

[shumitto]

I saw Zico and many others better than him playing live, and I can assure you the best player of Spain or any other team of today isn't fit to clean his boots.

Do I infer correctly that you believe the current emphasis on team-based play (at the international top level anyway) over simply surrounding a couple of excellent individualists with a supporting cast is because there's a worldwide shortage of players who could actually be excellent individualists, not because team-based strategies have shown themselves to be superior?

Team-based strategies are mainly an European thing. South American football with its 9 WC has primarily focused on individual talents as football is seen as individual expression rather than a group-oriented activity and for South Americans this model worked like a charm.

Why South Americans changed that if the previous "model" proved so successful ? Because most South Americans suffer with low self-esteem and deeply believe that by aping European "stuff" including but not limited to footballing culture the European wealth and lifestyle (or what they fancy as European lifestyle) will all of a sudden replicate there too. As a consequence I really believe recruiting not only in Europe but also in South America has followed the path of building physically strong players and neglecting talents. Just to give an example, Messi, one of the only really good players of today had a hard time finding a club due to his height.

Obviously the topic is much more complex than this and I would need more time to elaborate it better, but just to sum up my stance briefly, I am sorry if anyone feel offended by the way I treated the Spanish team, but IMHO the football they and their rivals played left a lot to be desired. Too much running and too little inspiration.

[Leonishiki]

I am not saying that Spain is particularly poor. I am saying that the standard of current day football is low. None of the teams Spain defeated is a big deal...

That's was probably the most annoying sentence you have said in all this discussion. Portugal is not a big deal? Paraguay (who defeated Italy) is not a big deal? Germany (who defeated England & Argentina) is not a big deal? Netherlands (who defeated Brasil) is not a big deal? Which team is for you a big deal? Maybe all the teams who were eliminated after the first stage without winning any game?

I think Doitsuyama is right. You really don't care about football, you're just trolling.

[Asashosakari]

In a way, I think I agree with shumitto to some extent. I'm not particularly a fan of high-scoring games, but I do prefer games where the outcome is commensurate with the effort shown. Germany during the tournament - fine. Lots of shots on goal, lots of goals. Netherlands - also fine. Not quite as many shots and surely less dominant (by possession time etc.) than Spain, but scored as many goals during the World Cup as their efforts merited. (Also goes for both teams' matches against Spain, respectively their weakest games all tourney long, IMO. I can't really complain they both lost.)

But Spain, on the other hand...yikes. I still can't believe they only scored 8 times. For me as a watching fan, they're definitely the most frustrating champion* who didn't have to go through any penalty shootouts in a long time. I can't say they played bad football, far from it, and they really are excellent at keeping the ball under control, but the fact that a team with such excruciatingly bad conversion of its shots on goal was only stopped by lowly Switzerland is pretty flabbergasting. One might (note: "might") conclude that the overall quality of the World Cup field can't have been that high if nobody else managed to find a way to beat Spain somehow.

Edit: I do wonder how much of an effect the constant vuvuzela noise had. The point was made early on during the tournament that it dramatically inhibited players' ability to coordinate their game by voice...Spain evidently didn't suffer much from that, perhaps because their game is so system-based that there may well be less need for on-the-fly coordination, but I wonder if some of their opponents might have fared better in a more regular fan environment.

* Edit #2: World champion, that is. I'm not going to get into Greece...

Edited July 12, 2010 by Asashosakari

[shumitto]

I am not saying that Spain is particularly poor. I am saying that the standard of current day football is low. None of the teams Spain defeated is a big deal...

That's was probably the most annoying sentence you have said in all this discussion. Portugal is not a big deal? Paraguay (who defeated Italy) is not a big deal? Germany (who defeated England & Argentina) is not a big deal? Netherlands (who defeated Brasil) is not a big deal? Which team is for you a big deal? Maybe all the teams who were eliminated after the first stage without winning any game?

I think Doitsuyama is right. You really don't care about football, you're just trolling.

Well, I would complete (but I didn't as it was implied) that none of the 32 is a big deal. It is a football of hard-working players, able to run over 10 km. on a single day. But talented, and that is my point, they are not.

The most painful part was to watch van Bommel, De Jong and Mathijsen... they don't even know how the ball looks like, they can only give chase to others players' legs...

EDIT: just to finish my unwelcome participation here and make some points clear. I don't think the quality is measured by the numbers of goals scored. And it was far from being my intention to troll here. I was just showing my disappointment at how the supposed best football competition in the world can be won by a really boring team.

Beckenbauer's take on the final game

Edited July 13, 2010 by shumitto

[Pandaazuma]

Well, Jezz...it's nearly that time again! Are you going to revive this game for the World Cup? It was really great (and I was bloody useless).

Sorry to revive this very old thread, but I thought it was a lesser evil to do that than start a new one if Jezz wasn't up for organizing is this time.

[Jejima]

Yes, I am planning for WC 2014... But was planning to 'start' after the May basho ;-)

But as we need 32 players, might as well start recruiting ;-)