Asasekiryu

[Zuikakuyama]

kiryu won again today, and could be 10-0 if he wins against hokutoriki tomorrow.

They better start putting him up against the ozekis now (like musoyama). He is not going to face shoryu, and we certainly don't want another repeat of the takatoriki thing again.

[aderechelsea]

and we certainly don't want another repeat of the takatoriki thing again.

I would.......( i mean just to see him get the yusho)... (Dribbling...)

Yeah a match against an Ozeki in day11 would be great.I hope he goes 10-0 by then.

Too bad he had to beat Kokkai to get to 9-0....... :-P

[furanohana]

Just imagine.......... Asasekiryu 15-0 and Asashoryu 15-0 and Asashoryu winning the play-off....

That would be fun !

BTW, did it ever happened to have a play-off between two zensho rikishi ?

[Zuikakuyama]

One thing I notice when I saw the replays again was that kokkai was gripping a very loosely tied mawashi. i think that had an effect on the leverage he got against kiryu.

I also notice the same thing in Shoryu's match against kotomitsuki. mickey had basically pulled shoryu's mawashi up to his chest level.

dont they have some rules on how tightly the mawashi must be tied?

[Doitsuyama]

dont they have some rules on how tightly the mawashi must be tied?

Yes, they have! The mawashi may not come undone! (Holiday feeling...) (Holiday feeling...)

Edited March 22, 2004 by Doitsuyama

[Kintamayama]

I also notice the same thing in Shoryu's match against kotomitsuki.  mickey had basically pulled shoryu's mawashi up to his chest level.

dont they have some rules on how tightly the mawashi must be tied?

It is an established fact that Asashouryuu became Yokozuna only because he intentionally wears his mawashi loose. He learned that from Brittney Spears.

Edited March 22, 2004 by Kintamayama

[Zuikakuyama]

I also notice the same thing in Shoryu's match against kotomitsuki.

[Naifuzan]

I thought the loose mawashi was a musashigawa special.

[Kintamayama]

I would say Janet Jackson.

No ,no, no- Janet Jackson is Miyabiyama's department, if you know what I mean..

(is there a winking emoticon??)

[Hashira]

furanohana Posted on Mar 22, 2004, 10:32

  Just imagine.......... Asasekiryu 15-0 and Asashoryu 15-0 and Asashoryu winning the play-off....

That would be fun !

BTW, did it ever happened to have a play-off between two zensho rikishi ? 

this is intriguing. does anyone know if it has happened?my guess would be that it has, especially in the days of shorter tournaments.

[Yoavoshimaru]

Well, shorter tournaments would imply less than 15 bouts, so 14-0 meeting 14-0 couldn't happen B-) Perhaps you meant when they had fewer tournaments per year?

A zensho yusho is rare. For two rikishi to have that option going into senshuraku must be very rare indeed.

[Asashosakari]

As usual, other people already did the heavy lifting (in this case Chiyozakura), so I can just quote their findings. B-) There has been no zensho playoff, at 15-0 or any other tournament length, since the playoff system was established in the late 1940s.

Edit: Incidentally, the tournament that primarily led to the introduction of the playoff system (Aki 1945) did have two zensho rikishi, namely Yokozuna Haguroyama and M10 Chiyonoyama at 10-0 each.

Edited March 22, 2004 by Asashosakari

[Takanobaka]

kiryu won again today, and could be 10-0 if he wins against hokutoriki tomorrow.

They better start putting him up against the ozekis now (like musoyama). He is not going to face shoryu, and we certainly don't want another repeat of the takatoriki thing again.

Personally, I wouldn't mind it and I'm pulling for Kiryu, as unlikely as his victory may be. The other three guys already have their fair share of yusho and are most likely the three highest paid guys in Ozumo. A Yusho for Asasekiryu, however, would really make his career, whether or not he's seen as a future Ozeki or anything of the like. Purely the amount it would add to his earnings would make it worth it, to me, to pull off a surprise low-seeded Yusho.

However, for somewhat the same reasons, what do you think are the chances that, if it ends up being a playoff between the heya mates, that Asashoryu tanks (or at least doesn't try quite as hard) to supplement a buddy's lifestyle?

[aderechelsea]

However, for somewhat the same reasons, what do you think are the chances that, if it ends up being a playoff between the heya mates, that Asashoryu tanks (or at least doesn't try quite as hard) to supplement a buddy's lifestyle?

I think if it was a matter of money, Shoryu would be glad to give his basho earnings to help his mate , but keep the Yusho for himself .....(considering he was going to get it............... ;-) )

[Takanobaka]

I think if it was a matter of money, Shoryu would be glad to give his basho earnings to help his mate , but keep the Yusho for himself .....(considering he was going to get it............... ;-) )

I'd like to think that, but it's much easier said than done. Winning the Yusho would increase the amount of money he makes for the rest of his career, including after retirement. Not that I'm implying that there would be a full out Yao (Censored) [to prevent any argument on this topic again] here, but even if Kiryu paid Shoryu the full amount of his prize money for the Yusho now, it still works out better for Kiryu in the long run. Plus he would look pimp in a new truck...

In any case, I doubt it will come to that, and even if it does, I doubt Shoryu would lose, in part because of his brashness (whereas some other older and wiser fellows might see it as an honorable sacrifice), and in part because a loss would certianly look fixed. I guess it was a dumb question to ask which might inherently cause controversy, but I was just curious if anyone thinks Asashoryu might have it in his character, not to take a fall per se, but to be altruistic and sacrifice a Yusho in order to help out a friend for the rest of his life...

Edited March 22, 2004 by Takanobaka

[Dejimasama]

I would say Janet Jackson.

No ,no, no- Janet Jackson is Miyabiyama's department, if you know what I mean..

(is there a winking emoticon??)

;-) :-D Qoute of the year

[Zuikakuyama]

Kotoryu (M10) for day 11 is not what i wanted to see.

If the Kyokai wanted to save the sanyaku matches for the last 4 days, they could have put him up against higher megashiras like Dejima for Miyabiyama, or maybe even robocop.

But I guess since there are so many zensho winners here, the chance of a megashira yusho is lower.

But on a philophical level, I dont think it is quite right for him to win yusho by facing only (a meximum of) 4 sanyakus and 11 megashiras (with the highest rank being hokutoriki at M6).

Takatoriki at least met 2 yokozunas and 3 sanyakus on his way to winning.

[Naganoyama]

As usual, other people already did the heavy lifting (in this case Chiyozakura), so I can just quote their findings. (In a state of confusion...) There has been no zensho playoff, at 15-0 or any other tournament length, since the playoff system was established in the late 1940s.

Edit: Incidentally, the tournament that primarily led to the introduction of the playoff system (Aki 1945) did have two zensho rikishi, namely Yokozuna Haguroyama and M10 Chiyonoyama at 10-0 each.

This is not particularly surprising. A rikishi capable of scoring 15-0 would _almost_ certainly be an Ozeki or Yokozuna. Two such rikishi would have faced each other (and one of them would have a loss therefore) unless they were stable mates.

I suppose we do have a number of examples of Yokozuna/Ozeki (in various combinations) from the same stable but they are a minority case. Given how rare it is to have two unbeaten rikishi late in the tournament anyway, the probability is very low. (There are members of this forum much better able to calculate this than me!)

[aderechelsea]

Today Asasekiryu won his 10th bout by using another technique again (9 thus far)

Does he have to reach a certain amount of wins or beat Ozekis and Yokozunas to get the Ginosho prize? (because he certainly showed he has the "exceptional technique and variety" in his wins.....)

(In a state of confusion...)

[Kashunowaka]

Today Asasekiryu won his 10th bout by using another technique again (9 thus far)

Does he have to reach a certain amount of wins or beat Ozekis and Yokozunas to get the Ginosho prize?    (because he certainly showed he has the "exceptional technique and variety" in his wins.....)

(In a state of confusion...)

I'd say he is a pretty strong gino-sho candidate, but you don't need to use many winning techniques to win the technique prize. 11 oshidashi wins would do just as fine. I don't know exactly what the rules say, but I think it has something to do with doing basic sumo with good technique, rather than doing as many tricks as possible.

And the minimum number of wins for all sansho is 8, i.e. kachi-koshi.

If he would beat yokozuna and ozeki, he would be a candidate for the shukun-sho.

[Zuikakuyama]

Now, assuming kiryu meets shoryu in a playoff and defeats him, does that qualify for a kinboshi? I think oftentimes playoffs are not counted in the official stats of the kyokai.

[Asashosakari]

Now, assuming kiryu meets shoryu in a playoff and defeats him, does that qualify for a kinboshi? I think oftentimes playoffs are not counted in the official stats of the kyokai.

I have no idea, and while the Kyokai probably has a policy for it, they'll probably have to go searching for it, too; mainly because no Maegashira has ever won a play-off bout. :-P

There have been 12 playoffs with Maegashira participation, total record for them is 0-15. Against Yokozuna: 0-6; against Ozeki: 0-7; against Sekiwake: 0-2.

[Yubiquitoyama]

Now, assuming kiryu meets shoryu in a playoff and defeats him, does that qualify for a kinboshi?  I think oftentimes playoffs are not counted in the official stats of the kyokai.

I have no idea, and while the Kyokai probably has a policy for it, they'll probably have to go searching for it, too; mainly because no Maegashira has ever won a play-off bout. B-)

There have been 12 playoffs with Maegashira participation, total record for them is 0-15. Against Yokozuna: 0-6; against Ozeki: 0-7; against Sekiwake: 0-2.

Thanks for the stats! :-P

While this is true though, I think the general rules of the Kyokai, where playoff bouts have no significance in overall records or in banzuke placement (except lately in the same-rank situation), is enough to assume that a playoff win would not be considered an official kinboshi (and therefore not counted in bonus calculations). :-P