Could I learn Sumo in Japan?

[Guest Mojo]

Ryunokaze,

My family do still suport me yes. I hope they are willing to fiance me, I don't know yet, I have not talked about it to them yet because I am not to sure if they would like me to get any heavier (In a state of confusion...)

I only have very little Japanese in me, my great grandfather was Japanese, he died before I was born and he never taught my grandmother any Japanese, the Japanese part of my family is no more than how we look or in my case the colour of my skin...

I have tryed emailing the British Sumo Federation but unfortunately my email was not resived (so said an auto message from their ISP) (Exclamation...) but I am not really sure if they can help me anyway?

Matawari, could you explane this to me please? I have heard the name but never known what it is exactly...

Unfortunately none of my family speak or write any Japanese, I want to start learning it... (Exclamation...)

Why do you ring Sumo beya? Takasago beya where is that loctated?

Are you a Sumo Ryunokaze?

Thank you for your interesting and informative post Ryunokaze. (Cloverleaf...)

[BuBa]

Koykushuzan told in an interview that he had hard time finding a stable for Hakuho when he was 16.

I have read about that too and found the story very funny and worth too share with forum members.

After the Korean Jungyo, there was a meeting of rikishis with Mongolian sumo fans living in Korea. Kyoukushuzan, Kyuokutenho, Kokkai, Takamisakari and Asasekiryu have attended the gathering. According to the post of a spectator, it was a pretty cheerful, amusing evening.

Anyway, asked about Hakuho's success, Kyuokushuzan told an interesting story about how Hakuho have gotten into sumo. Because he was a son of a great Mongolian wrestler Kyuokushuzan brought Davaajargal (Hakuho's real name) to Japan and tried to get him in one of the heyas, but nobody wanted him because he was too small, at age of 16 he was only 168cm tall and 68kg, pretty ordinary young fella. After a numerous unsuccessful meetings with oyakatas they were about to give up and return to Mongolia. On the day before the departure, Oshima oyakata invited Kyukushuzan to a sushi bar. So they did, and after a while Kyukushuzan told the oyakata about Hakuho. Oshima oyakata being in good mood after a hefty meal and beers, told him not to send Davaajargal home, and promised to look after heya for him. Kyuokushuzan anxious of the chance and encouraged by beers asked oyakata to call his acquainted oyakatas right away . Usually, the oyakatas wouldn't recommend young wrestlers to each other without seeing them first, but this day beer made the trick, and he called Myagino oyakata and persuaded him to take to his heya a 'very promising' young Mongolian. In the morning, after he saw Hakuho, Oshima oykata was very regrettful of his actions and so did the Myagino oykata. But the promises were already made. So the story goes... (In a state of confusion...)

Edited March 9, 2004 by BuBa

[Ryunokaze]

It is a good tale BuBa.It is a good example of much that is important in sumo.

A persons size(or lack of) having little to do with success.Its his head that counts and his ability to focus on what he wants and his relentless actions to achieve it.Also loyalty and a mans word being his bond.Plus it highlight the strugle Mojo maybe facing to just get a go.Its all good stuff.Many Mongolians surely have good backrounds and the charecter for sumo.Is there a name for the Mongolian wrestling?You know,like "sumo".Do you know of good web sites, preferably in English?

Hello again Mojo,

No. I have no association with sumo apart from being a fan.Unfortunatly I found Sumo to late in life for that.At your age I would never have been free thinking enough to give it a look-in.Sad but true.I ring the beya to find out about keiko(training).

Takasago Beya is the house or stable that Y.Asashoryu belongs along with Toki , Asanowaka and Asasekiryu and more.It is a strong and popular Beya particularly at the moment.Often rikishi from other beya with-in the same group will flock there to train.As do the fans to watch.It is close to the Asasuksa shrine in Tokyo.It was established in 1883 and has raised many strong rikishi over many years.Takasago beya was also among the first to except foriegn deshi of whon Konishiki is probably most famous.

Matawari is a stretching exercise.It is commonly refered to as "sumo splits".You sit on the floor with your legs as far apart as possible and bend forward until your torso is flat to the floor.It is a most basic sumo drill and if a deshi can not achieve this alone then he will often be forced into this position by appling force to his back.

If it is sumo you really want to do then be persistent in trying to contact the B.S.F.

I know little about it but being an amature body it is most likely run by a small group,if not one individual who shares your passion.They probably work and have a busy life away from sumo so dont be put off by your email.

You will find a Judo club very easily and most likely the club will be close by and easy to get to for you and your folks.It is a good second option ,I think.You could get started at it this afternoon if you wanted to.

Japanese language skills would be a big advantage but you have little time if you want to make a career in Sumo as a rikishi.

Many men compete as amatures and meeting or talking with them will give you a much better idea of how you want to play things.Keep trying the B.S.F. or post a thread asking for info about it here.

A couple of good basic books on Sumo are Dynamic Sumo by C.Newton and lots of pics by G.Toff.Another book is Grand Sumo Fully Illustrated from Yohan publications.I think this one is a translation from a Japanese book.Lots of info and drawn illustrations but no photos.For me these two books form a basic reference but there are many more.You will need to chase them up in your nick of the woods.

Somebody like Fujisan(if he doesn't mind me saying so) may be able to give you info about a good sourse for you.I can only suggest the usual internet options.

Even if you do not become a rikishi,I hope you still continue to enjoy Sumo.

[Xris]

A persons size(or lack of) having little to do with success.

Humm... In case of Hakuko, 189cm, 134kg, it's not so bad! If he had stayed 168/68, I doubt very much he would have had very good results! (In a state of confusion...)

[Rijicho]

Is there a name for the Mongolian wrestling?

Boke.

[Manekineko]

Mojo-zeki,

another person who can perhaps help you get into amateur sumo world, and give you valuable advice is a Czech amateur rikishi, Shiroikuma:

His webpage

Good luck! (Sign of approval)

[Ryunokaze]

A persons size(or lack of) having little to do with success.

Humm... In case of Hakuko, 189cm, 134kg, it's not so bad! If he had stayed 168/68, I doubt very much he would have had very good results! (Riding an ATV...)

Xrix,

Yes, but he wouldn't have been there in the first place if his size was a good indicator as to success.Almost wasn't.Hakuko wasnt put off by it and knew he had it in him as did Kyokushuzan.I think size is not a good indicator as to how much success a deshi may have.Just because a deshi is big does not mean he will be a sekitori and the reverse may be true too.

I would be most interested to see if you are right about him not having success at the size he was as a deshi.A man that size would probably be relatively quick and agile.He would be hard to get hold of and may often find him self in a position to perform okuri.Ashi-tori may feature in his style .I would think trips would be his bag.He would probably be a good technician.It would probably be hard for larger rikishi to get to his belt with out compromising thier position by leaning.Dare I say it, he would also probably be great at henka.Probably need to be,hey?

Its the very low relative weight that most concerns me when thinking about it but his height may possibly be to his advantage.It works for Takekaze who is only 2cm taller but his weight is closer to 140kg from memory.He tends to use oshi and is good at it due to his low C of G and the ability to get under his opponent as they grope for a grip.Plus the fact he is weighty helps with oshi.He is a steamroller in a word.If he were lighter he would probably have a greater range of technique. (Hang on there is something on the TV about chanko-nabe.I think its Wakanohana's resturant.Didnt know he had one).Thx Xrix-san,you give me much to think about.

Rijicho,

Thx for that.Dont happen to know of a site in english?By the way you will keep my offer in mind wont you,if your at a Tokyo basho?

Daaramu,

Good to see your post.Can I expect more in the future(providing I am not presuming to much)?

[Guest Mojo]

Hello again Mojo,

No. I have no association with sumo apart from being a fan.Unfortunatly I found Sumo to late in life for that.At your age I would never have been free thinking enough to give it a look-in.Sad but true.I ring the beya to find out about keiko(training).

Takasago Beya is the house or stable that Y.Asashoryu belongs along with Toki , Asanowaka and Asasekiryu and more.It is a strong and popular Beya particularly at the moment.Often rikishi from other beya with-in the same group will flock there to train.As do the fans to watch.It is close to the Asasuksa shrine in Tokyo.It was established in 1883 and has raised many strong rikishi over many years.Takasago beya was also among the first to except foriegn deshi of whon Konishiki is probably most famous.

Matawari is a stretching exercise.It is commonly refered to as "sumo splits".You sit on the floor with your legs as far apart as possible and bend forward until your torso is flat to the floor.It is a most basic sumo drill and if a deshi can not achieve this alone then he will often be forced into this position by appling force to his back.

If it is sumo you really want to do then be persistent in trying to contact the B.S.F.

I know little about it but being an amature body it is most likely run by a small group,if not one individual who shares your passion.They probably work and have a busy life away from sumo so dont be put off by your email.

You will find a Judo club very easily and most likely the club will be close by and easy to get to for you and your folks.It is a good second option ,I think.You could get started at it this afternoon if you wanted to.

Japanese language skills would be a big advantage but you have little time if you want to make a career in Sumo as a rikishi.

Many men compete as amatures and meeting or talking with them will give you a much better idea of how you want to play things.Keep trying the B.S.F. or post a thread asking for info about it here.

A couple of good basic books on Sumo are Dynamic Sumo by C.Newton and lots of pics by G.Toff.Another book is Grand Sumo Fully Illustrated from Yohan publications.I think this one is a translation from a Japanese book.Lots of info and drawn illustrations but no photos.For me these two books form a basic reference but there are many more.You will need to chase them up in your nick of the woods.

Somebody like Fujisan(if he doesn't mind me saying so) may be able to give you info about a good sourse for you.I can only suggest the usual internet options.

Even if you do not become a rikishi,I hope you still continue to enjoy Sumo.

Ryunokaze, concerning Matawari, why is the ability to do this position needed in Sumo?? (Just do not get it...) I can only get my chest at just lower than a 45 degree angle if my legs are apart like that... :-|

Judo? Do I really have the time to spend three or what years learning Judo?? (Eh?)

Yes I will start learning Japanese very soon so hopefuly I will know it well enough when I need it...

Many men compete as amatures and meeting or talking with them will give you a much better idea of how you want to play things.Keep trying the B.S.F. or post a thread asking for info about it here.

Post a tread asking about info for what here? the B.S.F.? (Just do not get it...)

:-P P.S. sorry for the extra large quote...

[Ryunokaze]

Mojo-san,

I thought if you posted a thread asking for info specific to BSF then it may increase your chances of getting info specific to it.Most likely you would not get to many answers.Its upto you.

I would think you do not have three years to study Judo but it will get you doing something that would be somewhat useful in Sumo and doing it now.I often see kids probly as young as five and up,boys and girls,Mawashi clad and going at it with surprising skill,to my eye.Sometimes I think some of them are even employing tactics.Many can do Matawari and all the basic drills to a large extent.So there is a gap between you and some of the contenders you would be up against.I think to have a better shot anything you could be doing now you should be doing.Again, its upto you.

Matawari is particulary important because of the weight most of the men carry.The legs and lower back take a great deal of pressure and often rikishi wind up in strange positions.Just like a dry stick a stiff muscle could snap.

Flexibility can be used to good effect in many positions both in attack and defence.It is not uncommon to see rikishi use such flexibility in a last ditch effort to touch out or down a split second after thier opponent.Plus loose muscles just work better than tight ones.

I could ramble on but will not, as you rightly pointed out, my last post was too long.

[Guest Mojo]

Ryunokaze, I'm sorry that I gave you the impression of me telling you that your post was to long because I thought it was fine :-)

I used to be able to do Matawari when I was young although I had no idea what it was called and what or who it was used for...but now I'm not far off I can almost get there, in a few weeks I am sure I will be able to do Matawari.

Many can do Matawari and all the basic drills to a large extent.

Ryunokaze, could you give me the names and descriptions of all the basic drills please??

:-)

[Takanobaka]

The basic drills are shiko, teppo, suriashi, and matawari.

Matawari, already described, is sitting on the ground, splitting one's legs as far as possible while keeping them straight and aligned, and bending forward until your torso is parallel with the ground (or touching the ground in the case of guys with a bigger belly). This keeps people from getting lower back and hip injuries.

If you can't do it:

Teppo is a drill where you hit a wooden post dead on as hard as you can with your open palms. This makes your hands hard and prepares one for tsuppari.

Suriashi is a maneuverability drill where you essentially walk with your legs spread without moving your hips or lifting your feet. Ideally it's done with a line of people (there's a picture of it somewhere on the picture thread) so you're sandwiched and are forced to keep walking in that position.

Shiko is the drill where you turn your torso beyond a 45 degree angle while listing and stretching your leg out straight, then bending the knee in midair and stomping down with the foot while bending the other knee so you land with your knees at a 90 degree angle. This helps one maintain balance. This one you would probably need someone to show you how to do because it's very easy to do improperly and very difficult to do correctly.

Shiroikuma (the Czech guy that was mentioned earlier) actually has a pretty good page about how to train for sumo here. He has demonstration videos there, and I believe contact info as well, and if you're really serious about getting into Ozumo he's probably a good person to contact as he has had his own deshi enter Ozumo previously.

[Yoavoshimaru]

Shiroikuma (the Czech guy that was mentioned earlier) actually has a pretty good page about how to train for sumo here.

That's a cool link. :-)

[Kaikitsune Makoto]

Thanks for pointing a way to Shiroikuma's keiko site! I had no idea he had compiled such a page!!

Shiko in itself is very well depicted in the video also emphasizing the relativel unnecessity to do these airborne, spectacular shiko but instead concentrate on the one leg squat aspect of it and the balance. Easiest way to strip shiko from all real use is to cheat during the one leg squat part of the move as that is very important point. You can do it even from lower squat, as low as you possible can. That makes shiko more efficient and challenging even with lighter body.

Shinkyaku is something recommended to everyone in any sports. It targets also the inner thighs well and combines flexibility exercise with good power move. Take a light family member behind your neck and do shinkyaku then and enjoy the feeling of super keiko!

Women and young kids can often do matawari without much training because the tendons are much more flexible than for many men. For growing boys and then adult men matawari is rather unphysiological for many. It requires very flexible thigh flexor tendons including biceps femoris, semitendinosus and semimembranosus tendons and it is a long way to gradually increase the flexibility especially if the starting point is leaning more to stiffness side than natural flexibility. Personally I wonder if too many deshi are forced to excessive matawari way too early and whether many retire from sumo soon due to messed up thigh flexor tendons. If you look at Shiroikuma's video of matawari, you'll see one "trick" or way to do matawari easier. You need to position yourself in a distinct way before lowering your upper torso onto ground. For some people the hip joint is naturally blocking this move and it can be circumvented with slight "shuffling" or forward tilt of the hip. In any case matawari is the ultimate TV-strech ie. very convenient to do during a 30 minute program for example. Steady progress in every single attempt and after 30 minutes the feeling is good and thigh flexors well streched!

Lower back should be kept in shape in all aspects. Flexibility is important but it must be accompanied with solid power and certain control of it. It is an investment to future to train lower back early in career regardless of the sport.

[Guest Mojo]

Shiko is the drill where you turn your torso beyond a 45 degree angle while listing and stretching your leg out straight, then bending the knee in midair and stomping down with the foot while bending the other knee so you land with your knees at a 90 degree angle.  This helps one maintain balance.  This one you would probably need someone to show you how to do because it's very easy to do improperly and very difficult to do correctly.

.............. :-| (Eh?) :-O :-) :-) ;-) (Laughing...) (Just do not get it...) (Blinking...) (Blinking...) (Blinking...) :-S (Laughing...) (In a state of confusion...) (Eh?) :-| :-O (Blinking...) (Blowing up furiously...) (Shaking head...) (Shaking head...) (Scratching chin...) (Scratching chin...) (Thinking in depth...) (Thinking in depth...) (Thinking in depth...) (I dunno...) (I dunno...) :-( (Eh?) :-| :-O (Blinking...) (In a state of confusion...) (In a state of confusion...) (In a state of confusion...) (In a state of confusion...) ....... I could go on and on....... I hope that has made you realize that I am completely confused with the paragraph I have quoted on.... there is no way my brain can understand, that is mostly likely because it is writen in a way only the person who wrote it can understand.... ohhh me ohh my.... thats irritating!

[Takanobaka]

Shiko is the drill where you turn your torso beyond a 45 degree angle while listing and stretching your leg out straight, then bending the knee in midair and stomping down with the foot while bending the other knee so you land with your knees at a 90 degree angle.  This helps one maintain balance.  This one you would probably need someone to show you how to do because it's very easy to do improperly and very difficult to do correctly.

.............. :-| (Eh?) :-O (Nodding yes...) (In a state of confusion...) (In a state of confusion...) (In a state of confusion...) (Just do not get it...) (Blinking...) (Blinking...) (Blinking...) :-S (In a state of confusion...) (In a state of confusion...) (Eh?) :-| :-O (Blinking...) (Blowing up furiously...) (Shaking head...) (Shaking head...) (Scratching chin...) (Scratching chin...) (Thinking in depth...) (Thinking in depth...) (Thinking in depth...) (I dunno...) (I dunno...) :-( (Eh?) :-| :-O (Blinking...) (In a state of confusion...) (In a state of confusion...) (In a state of confusion...) (In a state of confusion...) ....... I could go on and on....... I hope that has made you realize that I am completely confused with the paragraph I have quoted on.... there is no way my brain can understand, that is mostly likely because it is writen in a way only the person who wrote it can understand.... ohhh me ohh my.... thats irritating!

lol....just check out the video on the page I hyperlinked....it probably explains it much better than I do....

[Guest Mojo]

That site is writen in bad English, bad English hurts my brain! :-P

[Kaikitsune Makoto]

That site is writen in bad English, bad English hurts my brain

Bad English??

I always thought Shiroikuma's English is awesome...

[Guest Mojo]

Ummm no, I'm quite sure it's bad... (maybe it looks good to you but to my English eyes and ears it sounds very confusing indeed)

[Asashosakari]

Bad English??

I always thought Shiroikuma's English is awesome...

Having just read through most of his site (for the first time in quite a while), I'm pretty confident that Shiroikuma's error percentage is probably lower than that of many native English speakers who I've encountered on the 'net. :-P There are a couple of sentences that could use an additional comma or two to make them more easily understood, but that doesn't seem to be an English-as-a-second-language effect...several of my American friends have a similar aversion to commas. :-P

[Naganoyama]

I am always impressed when a non-native English speaker posts interesting, informative or amusing stuff in English which is comprehensible. If the English is also stylish and well-formed, then this is a bonus.

Despite all the years I have spent trying to learn languages, I have never attempted to contribute to any forum not in English or post a web-site in any other language. I think Mojo-san must have higher expectations than me. How many languages can you write fluently by the way. :-P

[Chinonofuji]

Bad English??

I always thought Shiroikuma's English is awesome...

Having just read through most of his site (for the first time in quite a while), I'm pretty confident that Shiroikuma's error percentage is probably lower than that of many native English speakers who I've encountered on the 'net. (Laughing...) There are a couple of sentences that could use an additional comma or two to make them more easily understood, but that doesn't seem to be an English-as-a-second-language effect...several of my American friends have a similar aversion to commas. (Alien stuff...)

Agreed. As an american with above-average language skills, I was very impressed with his site, his use of language, and the narrative. The site is densely packed, and could perhaps have better navigation tools, but his english is fine (and the content is, to me, superb!).

C.

[aderechelsea]

I am always impressed when a non-native English speaker posts interesting, informative or amusing stuff in English which is comprehensible. If the English is also stylish and well-formed, then this is a bonus.

Despite all the years I have spent trying to learn languages, I have never attempted to contribute to any forum not in English or post a web-site in any other language. I think Mojo-san must have higher expectations than me. How many languages can you write fluently by the way. (Alien stuff...)

i sure am about me you talk.............. (Laughing...)

[Naganoyama]

i sure am about me you talk.............. (Alien stuff...)

Of course!

[Yoavoshimaru]

Shiroikuma's English

... is better than some stuff I hear and read on a regular basis, so I'd say it's good (Ranting...)

If you have any corrections to his page, I'm sure he'd appreciate a warm thank you email with them, he seems like an exceedingly nice guy.

[Ryunokaze]

Bad English??

I always thought Shiroikuma's English is awesome...

Having just read through most of his site (for the first time in quite a while), I'm pretty confident that Shiroikuma's error percentage is probably lower than that of many native English speakers who I've encountered on the 'net. (In love...) There are a couple of sentences that could use an additional comma or two to make them more easily understood, but that doesn't seem to be an English-as-a-second-language effect...several of my American friends have a similar aversion to commas. B-)

As an american with above-average language skills, I was very impressed with his site, his use of language, and the narrative.

C.

Chino-san,

Love the avatar.

You do mean in relation to other American's(note the use of the first "A"), of course(?).

I understand that you,as an American,still pronounce "Z" without the D.

(Thats me stuffing around,again).

Anyway,with all this talk about spelling,commas and written English in general,its beginning to feel like a spelling bee(hope my spelling is good) around here.

For mine,anybody who can put a point across is good enough for mine.Besides,this type of thing is too easy.

Oppression be my enemy.

(I reserve the right to spell any bloody word, the way I like.I may even leave out commas).

Mojo-san,

How you getting on?

Trust me Mojo,this question is the reason I posted here again.The other stuff is just an aside.