New restriction proposal

[Asashosakari]

You have said a lot.  I know where you stand on this issue and if I apply your principle to other issues, I know where you stand politically as well.

I am also glad that I use such strong statements to stand up for freedom.  If one does not stand up for it, one loses it.  One cannot be meek in the face of a challange to freedom and then claim to be a enemy of authoritarianism.

Heh...I had a feeling the thread would end up going down this exact route ever since I first saw the Ayn Rand quote in your sig. (Laughing...)

I must admit I don't see the point of trying to apply universal principles of liberty etc. to sumo. For lack of a better word, the Kyokai is a business organization...yes, I realize they're technically non-profit, but they still need to generate sufficient revenue. Should they decide that revenue can be generated better if Tsukedashi rikishi are distributed by whatever scheme they can cook up, I'd have no problem with them making that decision at all. (They're the bosses, they can be however authoritarian as they like, your protestations notwithstanding.) I might have a problem with the decision itself, but for entirely pragmatic reasons (namely that I currently just don't see the need for it, as long as Musashigawa-beya is the only statistical outlier), not philosophical ones.

Oyakata are certainly competing to get the best recruits, but that doesn't mean there's actual inter-heya competition in sumo. There's competition for hard-to-quantify things such as publicity and fame, and possibly power within the NSK, but that's chiefly competition among Oyakata, not among heyas...sumo is not a team sport, after all. At the most basic level, all heya are simply subdivisions of the Kyokai, ultimately at the whim of what the riji-kai decides.

I have trouble getting too worked up about drafts or salary caps (and those usually take place in actual competitive sports)...I'm having even more trouble getting worked up about the fact that the Kyokai has the power to run their own business the way they wish, and might actually use that power.

Edited February 26, 2004 by Asashosakari

[Yubiquitoyama]

The NCAA basketball analogy is interesting and fitting. There are other similar ones, e.g the number of foreign players allowed on pro teams.

But if we ignore the mechanics of such possible impose limits for a moment and ask why this movement is needed at all, what's the answer? Can someone demonstrate a statistically significant difference between the number of yusho won by heya with many college champs versus the number of yusho won by heya with few college champs?

I much prefer solid numbers-based reasoning directly related to sumo than wildly off-base rhetoric about the concepts of freedom.

Number of yusho is not a good comparison since there are so few rikishi who ever will get one, much less several. Furthermore, a stable can be considered a strong one without getting lots of yusho, as long as there are a lot of sekitori in the stable. Sadogatake have not gotten more than a few yusho the last 30 years, but has still seemed a strong stable more or less the entire time.

Maybe the best comparison would be to see how many sekitori stables have gotten compared to how many tsukedashi rikishi they have had. Even that is not really good though, especially since the tsukedashi rule has changed, and at least my view on this is based on the current tsukedashi rule rather than the earlier one.

[Muhomatsu]

You act as if I am against every kind of freedom and am a threat to society, which is simply not true.

I never said that. Please re-read. I was careful to state your opinions only on the situation at hand.

I still have a question for you - where do you draw the line? What kind of "threats" (to use your term) do you find acceptable and why? If you want to continue this conversation "off-forum" because it does digress, I would be happy to indulge.

Thanks,

Muhomatsu

[Yubiquitoyama]

You act as if I am against every kind of freedom and am a threat to society, which is simply not true.

I never said that. Please re-read. I was careful to state your opinions only on the situation at hand.

No you didn't say that straight out, you just insinuated.

I still have a question for you - where do you draw the line?

Edited February 26, 2004 by Yubiquitoyama

[Muhomatsu]

However, most of the time the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor (at best).

Is there really a way for minuscule heya to break through? I think there is but it's very small. Good, excellent, it can be done. But the price of this level of difficulty is that we will miss bouts like Dejima vs. Musoyama every single basho. To a certain point this is unavoidable but where exactly should that point be?

This is simply not true.

Where was Musashigawa-beya 10 years ago? It had Musashimaru and Musoyama. That is it - it was not the behemoth it is today. The poor got rich.

Where was Futagoyama-beya 10 years ago? Takanohana, Wakanohana, Takanonami, Akinoshima, Takatoriki, Naminohana, Wakashoyo, Misugisato - today, only a creaky Takanonami (and for how long?)

The rich got poor.

Look at where Isegahama is now versus where it was before the Oyakata had his streak of "bad luck".

Sometimes it takes years for a heya to get its first sekitori (Oguruma - Tomikaze). Sometimes the small heya actually does recruitment and gets a college grad (Sakaigawa - Iwakiyama). Some stables are small and remain that way. The operation of the Oyakata has a lot to do with that. Sure, smaller stables are at a disadvantage when it comes to getting the top college talent - but the idea should be for them to strategically eliminate the disadvantage and create advantages as opposed to just willfully knock down any others who are already successful.

[Muhomatsu]

For lack of a better word, the Kyokai is a business organization...yes, I realize they're technically non-profit, but they still need to generate sufficient revenue. Should they decide that revenue can be generated better if Tsukedashi rikishi are distributed by whatever scheme they can cook up, I'd have no problem with them making that decision at all. (They're the bosses, they can be however authoritarian as they like, your protestations notwithstanding.) At the most basic level, all heya are simply subdivisions of the Kyokai, ultimately at the whim of what the riji-kai decides.

I'm having even more trouble getting worked up about the fact that the Kyokai has the power to run their own business the way they wish, and might actually use that power.

The Kyokai can do what it wants. Absolutely. I may not agree with those actions, but you are right. The whim of the Riji is the law of the land.

I see all of this wrangling over how to make sumo better and how to make it more popular in these forums and I just wanted to add my two cents to the debate. I know that this discussion will not actually lead to any policy in the Kyokai. I am just using this forum to express my opinions (just as all the other users are) on the issues that affect our favorite sport, sumo.

Muhomatsu

[Asashosakari]

Maybe the best comparison would be to see how many sekitori stables have gotten compared to how many tsukedashi rikishi they have had. Even that is not really good though, especially since the tsukedashi rule has changed, and at least my view on this is based on the current tsukedashi rule rather than the earlier one.

I realize this will provide only an incomplete picture (due to retirements, the tsukedashi rule change, etc.), but as it happens I spent a few minutes last night cooking up some statistics related to heya size and number of sekitori raised by them. (Based on the Hatsu basho banzuke, i.e. without considering retirements and Juryo promotions that came immediately after Hatsu.)

I'm too lazy to prettify the data, so here goes in a bare text format. I've grouped the 54 heyas into four groups:

20+ deshi: 8 heya for a total of 187 deshi, among them 38 who have ever reached sekitori status, 12 of them tsukedashi.

15-19 deshi: 11 heya for a total of 181 deshi, among them 23 sekitori including 10 tsukedashi.

10-14 deshi: 20 heya for a total of 243 deshi, among them 33 sekitori including 9 tsukedashi.

less than 10 deshi: 15 heya for a total of 84 deshi, among them one lone sekitori, namely Roho (who's not a tsukedashi, obviously).

The sekitori/deshi ratios, both with and without tsukedashi:

        w/     w/o
20+    20.3%  14.9%
15-19  12.7%   7.6%
10-14  13.6%  10.3%
Curiously enough, among the two mid-sized groups, the smaller heyas are actually more successful than the bigger ones, especially when college rikishi are excluded. They're clearly dwarfed by the really big stables though, both with and without tsukedashi included. It's of course difficult to figure out whether big heya are really better at producing sekitori, or if they're simply attracting the better deshi and getting a boost because of that. 
One thing that needs pointing out is that it [i]is[/i] possible to become a big heya from modest beginnings...Musashigawa, Hakkaku and Tamanoi aren't that old by sumo standards. Conversely, one-time prominent stables can also become irrelevant...just consider Isegahama, Nishonoseki or, to a lesser extent, Mihogaseki. (Edit: Muhomatsu beat me to much of this point while I was still typing. (In a state of confusion...))
I'm not fully sure what to make of the fact that really small heya basically haven't managed to raise any current sekitori. Some of these stables are the afore-mentioned old-time grands that have fallen on hard times, some are plainly failed stables such as Arashio, Araiso and Takekuma. Many of the remaining ones are relatively new stables that simply haven't had time to raise a sekitori yet - however, I'm not sure if that's true for all of them. (Does anyone have a list of founding dates for the existing stables?)
At any rate, there definitely are stables that rely mainly on college rikishi...Musashigawa has only one non-tsukedashi starter among their 7 sekitori (and that's Wakanoyama, who got there ages ago), and none of Kataonami's 4 sekitori came from mae-zumo. Tokitsukaze (after the retirement of Aogiyama), Irumagawa and Isenoumi also have multiple sekitori with none of them being mae-zumo starters.
Interestingly, Kataonami/Tokitsukaze/Irumagawa/Isenoumi are all in the 15-19 deshi group...and the other 7 heyas in that group don't have one single tsukedashi among them, but 6 of these 7 stables have raised sekitori the conventional way. It seems there are two ways to becoming big. (Sigh...) I think that shows that even oyakata who are regularly shunned by college rikishi know what they're doing, and are capable of being good coaches. Not that that observation is much of a surprise.

Edited February 26, 2004 by Asashosakari

[Kotoseiya Yuichi]

Where was Musashigawa-beya 10 years ago? It had Musashimaru and Musoyama. That is it - it was not the behemoth it is today. The poor got rich.

Where was Futagoyama-beya 10 years ago? Takanohana, Wakanohana, Takanonami, Akinoshima, Takatoriki, Naminohana, Wakashoyo, Misugisato - today, only a creaky Takanonami (and for how long?)

The rich got poor.

Yes, Musashigawa was smaller. No one but oyakata himself probably knows why they succeeded so well. The rumour says he has been copiously sponsored by the pachinko owners as those are said to be owned to a great extent by Koreans and we know ex-Mienoumi's Korean connection. If the rumour is true, I suppose it's a kind of bonus few oyakata can enjoy and count something on. Nothing wrong as such.

Futagoyama couldn't sustain its dominance which was to a large degree created by the (unfortunately allowed) merger between Fujishima & Futagoyama (although admittedly Fujishima guys were clearly better as a group). Something went wrong. Either they were unable to recruit promising newcomers (possibly because those knew they'll have problems getting kabus after their career which would make Futagoyama victim of their own success) or they simply sucked at raising their existing jonidan much higher. Perhaps the Fujishima group of those five great sekitori was just a happy coincidence which would have succeeded in any heya?

Those two heyas you mention are good examples of how changes in heya's success do happen but still I think they are exceptions to the rule. I'd say the principal question is how to create an environment where getting up from the bottom isn't excessively hard or dependant of exceptionally happy incidents. Then again getting once to the top shouldn't guarantee (as such) your continuing presence there.

I do understand your enthusiasm for those oyakata who made it. I'd prefer complete freedom in rikishi recruiting but the more or less inevitable downside of this is the accumulation of talent to relatively few "superheyas" which in turn limits the available matchups and therefore lessens the potential enjoyment for the fans. Therefore I think creating some sort of (possibly temporary NHL draft style) system to even out the situation would be a lesser of two evils.

[Kotoseiya Yuichi]

(Does anyone have a list of founding dates for the existing stables?)

Err, me...

I promised aeons ago to create an HTML table of those... Perhaps I should simply scan those papers created and sent to me by... you know yourself who... (In a state of confusion...)

[Manekineko]

My, has this thread grown. (Sigh...)

Well, time to add my modest opinion: I don't think limitations are ever a good aproach. In perfect world, prohibitions, limitations and policing would be unnecessary. Alas, this is not a perfect world. Although I don't think we're anywhere near this rule being implemented (disclaimer: Kyokai moves in mysterious ways), I see its merits. I like to see sekitori coming from various smaller heya, and I found Musashigawa full-house sweep (yokozuna, ozeki, sekiwake, komusubi and maegashira, some years ago) a bit gross. OTOH, it also finaly made me understand all those Futagoyama-factor mumblings. This hypotetical rule, like all rules, has its ups and downs. Depending on our own views, each of us will find more ups or downs, or vice-versa, or not really care either way. Extrapolating one's sumo views to one's politics is a bit far-fetched, too. I'm not sure what my stand on many issues is - I wonder how anyone can guess them from the simple fact I like Sailor Moon and cool bad guys in movies.

In the end, I'm a believer in equilibrium: good rikishi will float to the top. Bad rikishi will eventually sink. Injured rikishi make me sad. Persistant rikishi (hi, Ichinoya (Heart) ) make me mute with admiration. Things will work out eventually, because they always have and always will. I'm an optimist at heart...

Rereading this post, I find myself under heavy influence of Kai-zeki's style. (In a state of confusion...)

[Yubiquitoyama]

My, has this thread grown. (Sigh...)

Well, time to add my modest opinion: I don't think limitations are ever a good aproach. In perfect world, prohibitions, limitations and policing would be unnecessary. Alas, this is not a perfect world. Although I don't think we're anywhere near this rule being implemented (disclaimer: Kyokai moves in mysterious ways), I see its merits. I like to see sekitori coming from various smaller heya, and I found Musashigawa full-house sweep (yokozuna, ozeki, sekiwake, komusubi and maegashira, some years ago) a bit gross. OTOH, it also finaly made me understand all those Futagoyama-factor mumblings. This hypotetical rule, like all rules, has its ups and downs. Depending on our own views, each of us will find more ups or downs, or vice-versa, or not really care either way. Extrapolating one's sumo views to one's politics is a bit far-fetched, too. I'm not sure what my stand on many issues is - I wonder how anyone can guess them from the simple fact I like Sailor Moon and cool bad guys in movies.

In the end, I'm a believer in equilibrium: good rikishi will float to the top. Bad rikishi will eventually sink. Injured rikishi make me sad. Persistant rikishi (hi, Ichinoya (Heart) ) make me mute with admiration. Things will work out eventually, because they always have and always will. I'm an optimist at heart...

Rereading this post, I find myself under heavy influence of Kai-zeki's style. (Sigh...)

I agree 100 per cent (In a state of confusion...)

[Yoavoshimaru]

20+ deshi: 8 heya for a total of 187 deshi, among them 38 who have ever reached sekitori status, 12 of them tsukedashi.

15-19 deshi: 11 heya for a total of 181 deshi, among them 23 sekitori including 10 tsukedashi.

10-14 deshi: 20 heya for a total of 243 deshi, among them 33 sekitori including 9 tsukedashi.

less than 10 deshi

...

Out of curiosity, how did you decide on this division into four groups? I don't mind it, and thanks for compiling these very interesting stats, but why not <10, 10-20, >20 for example?

[Asashosakari]

Out of curiosity, how did you decide on this division into four groups? I don't mind it, and thanks for compiling these very interesting stats, but why not <10, 10-20, >20 for example?

Mostly out of a desire to have classes that didn't vary too much in number of heya and/or number of deshi, while using "sensible" boundaries (actual statisticians have likely fainted just now)...keeping 10-19 as one big class just didn't seem to provide terribly meaningful data. Arguably, splitting it into two classes didn't improve the data all that much either, but that's neither here nor there. (In a state of confusion...)

[Takanobaka]

*warning - this has turned into a short novel*

Responses to a few things:

1. Concerning the rich usually staying rich and the poor usually staying poor:

a. This isn't the case in all sports. Teams with good management usually stay good, and teams with poor management usually stay bad, but other than that, there can be a great level of parity (look at the NFL or NBA, for example)

b. There's one thing that distinguishes Ozumo from all other sports that should make it easier for heya to have mobility, namely that there aren't different markets at all. All of the rikishi have matches at the same place as all of the other rikishi, and all the heya are located in generally similar areas. Thus, you really can't have any 'small market vs. big market' complaints about why there isn't any mobility.

c. On the other hand, one thing that makes it harder, at least in the short term, is that rikishi can't change heyas. There are no free agents. The only way to get better is by adding newer people with high potential, and the only way to get worse is through aging rikishi, injuries, and retirements.

2. Concerning the fact that Musashigawa and Futagoyama have flip-flopped:

a. Yes, they have momentarily switched positions, but it's just not the right argument because they are both STILL two of the largest heya out there (even with the recent name change), and while there is no dominance by one of them, they're still both getting tons of quality recruits as opposed to many of the other heya. This is just an irrelevant analogy

b. This is the type of change that is more than possible. 5-10 years from now they'll be flip-flopped again, as Takanohana beya has been recruiting strongly, and it will take a few years for these recruits to progress to where they look like a powerhouse again. On the converse, Musashigawa hasn't recruited as strongly because they were already focusing on the guys they already had making it to the top. Once the top guys in the current Musashigawa crop start retiring (which has already started), you'll see them recruiting more heavily again. It works like a cycle - it's very difficult to be dominant without neglecting another area (development), and thus there will always be waves of how powerful a heya is.

c. The kabu thing that Kotoseiya mentioned does factor in a little bit as well, although I highly doubt that most rikishi go into Ozumo initially even thinking about becoming an Oyakata later on, or what opportunities they may have. If they do, then that would theoretically provide those guys an incentive to become the dominant person at a smaller heya, although that would make it more difficult for them to pay for the stock.

3. As to the notion that smaller heya should just get better in order to recruit better:

a. That's not really much of an option for most. There's a reason why the larger heya can have better facilities and recruit better, and that's because they have more money. There's no way that the oyakata of a heya with less than 10 guys and only 1 sekitori is going to be able to take out a loan to renovate the heya and get modern equipment and have a personal trainer or something of the like. They can't generally improve living conditions either. It costs money, and the smaller heya don't have it.

b. There could be some creativity involved, but even that, along with going against tradition, is very difficult. If you rock the boat too much, and get too unconventional, it would make it even harder to recruit new people because there is very little confidence that a new system would create better rikishi. Say, for instance, some pioneering oyakata decides to ditch most of the traditional training and train people in the manner that NFL offensive linemen are trained. I highly doubt that anyone would want to go there, because it's never been tested before, and if it ends up failing, then it really forecloses any opportunity to become a well-paid rikishi. Once you can prove that a new system actually works, sure it can help, but where are you going to find the guys who are willing to spend the best years of their lives testing it out?

4. As to the notion of holding it NHL (or any other) draft style (the prospect intrigues me, but I don't think it's the best solution for a few reasons):

a. There's one huge difference between the NHL and Ozumo which make this one tough, which is the lack of ability to trade. I think if things were held this way, it would still end up being fairly similar due to 'signability' issues. For example, in the NHL draft, some of the best players usually fall down farther in the draft because they tell teams preemptively that they won't sign if they have to join that team (i.e. the Sedin twins). Other guys will hold out and wait until the next draft when they're drafted by a team they don't like (i.e. Eric Lindros). The thing that keeps the best guys getting drafted high is the ability to trade the pick with someone else if they turn out to be unable to sign. Without the incentive of being able to get anything at all, teams won't even try to get guys they don't think will join the heya.

b. Holding a draft, where there's no leverage for the draftees, would give people even less freedom of choice than limiting each heya to only one tsukedashi at a time. Plus, presuming that more than just tsukedashi are drafted, this would have implications all across the board as to who goes where. I'm not sure that a rigid system of where people get stuck for their entire careers is a good thing. In addition, it gives the smaller heya no incentive to try to get better in other respects, and allows miserable oyakata to have rikishi whose potential they may limit. I feel like a draft would either not change anything for reason (a), or be going from one extreme to the other because of (b). Any rational interplay between the two would mean that the smaller heya would still be stuck in the same situation, while it might even things out in the middle a bit.

[Kotoseiya Yuichi]

Several good points raised in this thread. I need to ponder this more.

[Asashosakari]

(Warning: Almost as long follow-up to Takanobaka's long and very interesting post.)

2. Concerning the fact that Musashigawa and Futagoyama have flip-flopped:

    a. Yes, they have momentarily switched positions, but it's just not the right argument because they are both STILL two of the largest heya out there (even with the recent name change), and while there is no dominance by one of them, they're still both getting tons of quality recruits as opposed to many of the other heya.  This is just an irrelevant analogy

    b. This is the type of change that is more than possible.  5-10 years from now they'll be flip-flopped again, as Takanohana beya has been recruiting strongly, and it will take a few years for these recruits to progress to where they look like a powerhouse again.  On the converse, Musashigawa hasn't recruited as strongly because they were already focusing on the guys they already had making it to the top.  Once the top guys in the current Musashigawa crop start retiring (which has already started), you'll see them recruiting more heavily again.  It works like a cycle - it's very difficult to be dominant without neglecting another area (development), and thus there will always be waves of how powerful a heya is.

I'm not so sure. The recent Futagoyama/Takanohana recruits might turn out to be a talented bunch, or they might not. Perhaps the heya will be on top again in 10 years...but it seems just as likely to me that it'll go the way of Mihogaseki and become just another mid-sized, mediocre stable with an occasional sekitori or two.

Musashigawa on the other hand does seem to be preparing for the eventual retirements of Musoyama, Dejima, Wakanoyama (and previously Musashimaru), and I don't think that he's been slacking off on recruiting at all. It's just that he obviously concentrates on promising college rikishi, and the number of eligible tsukedashi starters has been vastly reduced by the 2000 rule change (only four rikishi have started at the Ms15 equivalent since then, one of them was a Musashigawan, Kakizoe), so there's been less to pick from. Now that there's a larger batch of tsukedashi next month, one is a Musashigawa recruit again, making the stable the only one that has managed to grab two of the Ms15 starters.

So while I'm not too thrilled that Musashigawa Oyakata keeps his stable afloat almost exclusively with college rikishi, I must admit that it's a smart strategy, and obviously executed with an eye on the future. If only Futagoyama Oyakata had been that proactive circa 1996...

    c. The kabu thing that Kotoseiya mentioned does factor in a little bit as well, although I highly doubt that most rikishi go into Ozumo initially even thinking about becoming an Oyakata later on, or what opportunities they may have.  If they do, then that would theoretically provide those guys an incentive to become the dominant person at a smaller heya, although that would make it more difficult for them to pay for the stock.

I think you're right when it comes to deshi who join ozumo in their teens...for the college rikishi, I actually wouldn't be surprised if they factor in the possibility of getting a kabu. After all, chances are much higher for them that they'll fulfill the criteria (i.e. 25 sekitori basho and all the others), and their career length will usually be 10 years or less, so there's more of an incentive to plan ahead than for the 15-year olds.

I don't think the ability to pay for the kabu is too strongly related to the size of the heya. Much of the money comes from donations of a rikishi's koenkai sponsors (plus part of his own earnings thrown in if needed, I suppose), so as long as you manage to become sufficiently popular and attract enough fans, the payment part shouldn't be much harder for small-stable rikishi (just take Kaio as an example). That leaves the advantage that shishos from smaller heyas can offer you to take over their own kabu if the age differential works out. Of course, if that doesn't work (let's take Sakaigawa Oyakata and Iwakiyama), it might be a lot more difficult to get a kabu when you're a rikishi from a not-so-well-connected stable. Or it might not...at least right now, the number of freely available stock is pretty high. Hard to tell how it might be five or ten years from now, though.

3. As to the notion that smaller heya should just get better in order to recruit better:

    a. That's not really much of an option for most.  There's a reason why the larger heya can have better facilities and recruit better, and that's because they have more money.  There's no way that the oyakata of a heya with less than 10 guys and only 1 sekitori is going to be able to take out a loan to renovate the heya and get modern equipment and have a personal trainer or something of the like.  They can't generally improve living conditions either.  It costs money, and the smaller heya don't have it.

I think one realistic order of events is somewhat like this (and it seems to be supported by how Tamanoi, Musashigawa, Naruto and Hakkaku have become big, for instance): As a new stablemaster, absent the chance of scoring a really and obviously talented deshi right from the start, you have to concentrate on superior scouting to pick up a few guys who look promising but who, for one reason or another, might have been overlooked by the powerful heyas. Once one or two of these rikishi (hopefully) turn out to be successful, your heya becomes more famous, it attracts more sponsors and more deshi, and then you'll eventually be in a financial position to improve heya conditions and become an even bigger magnet for talented rikishi.

As you're pointing out, it's difficult to start with the "improve the heya" phase if the funds just aren't there, so things often hinge on finding that one break-out star rikishi who can boost your stable's public recognition (particularly for those stables not headed by former Yokozuna or Ozeki). I'm just speculating here, but perhaps this is what Oshiogawa Oyakata had in mind...distributing the tsukedashi rikishi across more stables in order to jump-start a few of them. That's obviously a shortcut to doing things the hard way, but if Oshiogawa feels that the dominant stables are becoming too dominant (re: Kotoseiya's scenario of a handful of super-stables with everyone else being the dregs), this might be a good way to even things out a bit.

[Yubiquitoyama]

It seems as if Takanobaka and Asashosakari have covered a lot of this topic above and I mostly agree with them. Just two points:

Edited February 27, 2004 by Yubiquitoyama

[Jejima]

I've understood the sumo school lasts for only about six months and that it consists only subjects related to sumo like calligraphy, sumo jinku (singing), etc.

I believe they also learn the basic sumo exercises, and sumo history. I was going to quote from my "Grand Sumo Fully Illustrated Book", which gives all the curriculum, but I can't find it. (darn) :-D

[Yubiquitoyama]

I've understood the sumo school lasts for only about six months and that it consists only subjects related to sumo like calligraphy, sumo jinku (singing), etc.

I believe they also learn the basic sumo exercises, and sumo history. I was going to quote from my "Grand Sumo Fully Illustrated Book", which gives all the curriculum, but I can't find it. (darn) :-D

Here for example:

http://hoshitori.sumogames.com/GSFI/GSFI%2...ng%20School.jpg