Rikishi named Takanohana

[Naganoyama]

Please excuse this trivial question.

I have seen Yokozuna Takanohana Koji referred to as Takanohana II and Ozeki Takanohana Toshiaki referred to as Takanohana I.

But there is also a Maegashira Takanohana Takeya from the early thirties.

Does anyone know the reason why he does not form part of this numbering scheme?

[Kotoseiya Yuichi]

No need to excuse. (I am not worthy...)

I've understood the Roman numeral is usually used only from those rikishi who've reached at least ozeki. Then again I'm probably not the only one to separate father and son Tochiazuma with a numeral even if father was sekiwake at his highest. I guess there are just informal conventions.

BTW, there even was a Wakanohana before the first yokozuna so named.

[Zuikakuyama]

I would suspect that it is due to different Japanese kanji characters.

The (I) and (II) designations is more commonly used by english writers. Even Takanohana (I) and Takanohana (II) have different kanji characters. Their "no" is different. In any event, their second name are different, so there is really no need to use (I) and (II) to distinguish them in Japanese.

The only instance where the kyokai offically used (I) and (II) designations are where both the shikona and their second name are identical. Example of this would be Wakanohana Kanji (I) (45th yokozuna) and Wakanohana Kanji (II) (56th yokozuna)

[Asashosakari]

The (I) and (II) designations is more commonly used by english writers.

Edited February 16, 2004 by Asashosakari

[Naganoyama]

Thanks. This is helpful. I thought it might be because he was only Maegashira and had considered the case of Wakanohana Kanji but it didn't occur to me that it was to help in the English rendering.

(Of course Takanohana II did change the 'no' character; did this invalidate his numbering (I am not worthy...) )

I like the explanation that it is an informal convention.

Looking at other shikona with large numbers of rikishi using them at different times, sometimes with no gap between them, e.g. Genjiyama, I can well imagine some of these would have been numbered if written in English and some not.

It seems to fit with the way the NSK seem to have apparently strict rules for some things (like ozeki and yokozuna promotions for example) but then to apply them only in an ad hoc sort of way, making exceptions if they choose.

[Kashunowaka]

It seems to fit with the way the NSK seem to have apparently strict rules for some things (like ozeki and yokozuna promotions for example) but then to apply them only in an ad hoc sort of way, making exceptions if they choose.

I'd like to think that it's the other way around: ad hoc rules which are applied in an apparently strict sort of way. :-O