Aoki Makoto

[HenryK]

Of those who have followed him more regularly last year -- do his performances live up to what the numbers promise?

[Randomitsuki]

But what do the numbers promise? He is older than Tochiozan, and he is few months younger than Goeido and Kisenosato. And these three comparative rikishi are already written off by some.

Then again, being at high Makushita in one's 7th basho is quite a feat, even at that age. Compared to other rikishi in his cohort, Aoki's rise is faster than Roho's, but not as fast as Itai's.

Edited January 16, 2010 by Randomitsuki

[Asashosakari]

Just goes to show how hard it is to project even collegiate rikishi. My knowledge is limited, but my impression was that he was considered good-not-great in college, and even a bit behind his teammate Sugiyama (Takarafuji). It's probably not so much a skill question, but one of mentality and make-up. It's a somewhat surreal change - going from having several bouts in one sitting, all of which are hugely important (most college tourneys are set up such that you're out with your first loss), to just one bout per two days and a setup where winning 5 out of 7 or later 10 out of 15 is considered a big success.

That said, it only took me five seconds to think of a cautionary example. Same somewhat limited reputation coming out of college, too, if I'm not mistaken.

[Asashosakari]

Might as well expand on my previous comment a bit. My theory is that, essentially, collegiate rikishi are always flirting with disaster. If you're strong enough already when you come in (and there's little doubt for me that many high schools' and universities' sumo practice is just as good as that found in Ozumo, albeit different), you can easily cruise into juryo and perhaps even makuuchi without having to build your skills - but as soon as the first big injury hits, your career may very well be dead in the water. You're already relatively old and fully-formed in your skills, so a) you don't have any room to grow and compensate for the injury and b) you may not even have enough time to reinvent your fighting style.

And that doesn't just go for the Sakaizawas and Ichiharas...Kotomitsuki comes in as a surefire future ozeki and potential future yokozuna, gets a big injury and doesn't build himself back up to that level until it's almost too late, Musoyama can't stay completely healthy and only reaches ozeki at age 28 even though he was in sanyaku after just 7 basho, and Dejima and Miyabiyama do manage to reach ozeki before the injury hits but then crater completely and never get anywhere close to their top level again even while they (at least in theory) were still younger than the typical peak age of a rikishi.

Edited January 16, 2010 by Asashosakari

[Washuyama]

That said, it only took me five seconds to think of a cautionary example. Same somewhat limited reputation coming out of college, too, if I'm not mistaken.

Not a great example, IMHO. Sakaizawa was still on his way up before his injury against Kakizoe. I still remember Kakizoe praying dohyo-side as the yobidashi were carrying him off.

[Kintamayama]

That said, it only took me five seconds to think of a cautionary example. Same somewhat limited reputation coming out of college, too, if I'm not mistaken.

Not a great example, IMHO. Sakaizawa was still on his way up before his injury against Kakizoe. I still remember Kakizoe praying dohyo-side as the yobidashi were carrying him off.

And let me be the first (and probably the last) to say Sakaizawa will make it to Ozeki.

[Asashosakari]

Not a great example, IMHO. Sakaizawa was still on his way up before his injury against Kakizoe. I still remember Kakizoe praying dohyo-side as the yobidashi were carrying him off.

Hence my expanded comment. Even allowing for the fact that Sakaizawa's injury was worse than average (in as much as one can even classify injuries that way), the reality is that injuries are pretty much inevitable, and my impression is that collegiate rikishi are at a disadvantage in dealing with that. And besides - I didn't want to pile on earlier, but my opinion is that Sakaizawa wasn't all that good, and in a perverse way the injury probably protected him from being exposed by the mid-maegashira ranks. (The real tragedy is Kiyoseumi who certainly had the college pedigree, the body and the skills to at least mirror Iwakiyama's career, and who is now reduced to henkaing so often and displaying such terrible sumo even when he's not that he's dangerously close to becoming the first rikishi ever I'm actively wishing to disappear from the sekitori ranks...)

All in all, until somebody manages to become the answer to this poll, I'll remain skeptical about any college rikishi's upside, Aoki included.

And let me be the first (and probably the last) to say Sakaizawa will make it to Ozeki.

Right after Kakizoe's zensho yusho.

Edited January 16, 2010 by Asashosakari

[Otokonoyama]

And let me be the first (and probably the last) to say Sakaizawa will make it to Ozeki.

Right after Kakizoe's zensho yusho.

Some thread drift from me here... (Sign of approval...)

The thing I like about Kakizoe is that he looks like he's giving it his all every single bout. And, win or lose, he bows deeply when leaving the dohyo and when leaving the ringside area. He may not have the body or talent of a Kaio, for example, but I never have the expectation that Kakizoe will just phone it in. I know many of the fans just like to see Kaio regardless of his performance, but I'd much rather see a torikumi with a feisty relatively unknown rikishi any day of the week.