Election erection

[Kintamayama]

Tatsunami Ichimon will be sending Ooshima Oyakata and Isegahama Oyakata to the riji board. Isegahama will be replacing Tomozuna Oyakata. For Nishonoseki Ichimon's unfolding drama, go here. It's looking more and more like we will be seeing a by-election for the first time in 8 years, as there are 11 candidates for 10 spots.

Edited December 22, 2009 by Kintamayama

[Asashosakari]

He's replacing the ichimon's younger incumbent riji? I wonder if there's more to this story than we've heard thus far.

[Asashosakari]

So, assuming this is now the official election talk thread and I don't have to hijack the Taka hijinx thread anymore...I'll renew my wonderment as to why we have yet to hear from Tokitsukaze-ichimon. Their sole riji Isenoumi turns 65 in September 2011, and while until now I wasn't completely sure whether that rules out another nomination (and then serving 75% of the term), another of Tamanaogijima's information-rich pages pretty much confirms that nobody aged 63 or 64 who couldn't serve a full term ever gets nominated. Even if they go with the obvious decision and move up Minato-oyakata from his deputy rank, you'd think the imminent exit of essentially the Kyokai's #2 guy would be making a few more waves...

[Asashosakari]

And the fun times continue...first the mundane news: Kokonoe gets to go for Takasago-ichimon (of course), and Tokitsukaze-ichimon will be sending Michinoku (ex-Kirishima) to assume the spot held by 63-year-old Isenoumi (which should make a few international folks happy).

Now for the interesting part: Both ichimon may be playing a key role in the Takanohana brouhaha as they hold 17 and 13 votes respectively and may offer some potential for Taka to siphon off votes without the unfaithful voters endangering their own ichimon's spot. However, the leadership is having a different idea - with it being a virtual certainty that a vote will take place, both ichimon have agreed in principle to form a coalition and attempt to sneak away with a third riji spot; neither ichimon has had two riji since the tumultous 1998 election. Another meeting will be held on the 14th (Tokitsukaze) and 18th (Takasago) to figure out the details and presumably settle on a candidate suitable to both groups.

The same article also raises the issue of kabu being loaned across ichimon lines and what this will mean for the likely voting decisions of the affected oyakata.

FWIW, this affects Furiwake (ex-Musashimaru in Dewanoumi-ichimon, on loan from Takasago) and Tanigawa (ex-Shikishima in Tokitsukaze-ichimon, also on loan from Takasago). And of course if Chiyotaikai or somebody else retires prior to the vote, the lines in the sand could yet shift.

Edit: The above numbers were from Mainichi; Sanspo puts the two groups at 18 and 11 voting members instead. I'm guessing they count those two loaned kabu differently, but no time to double-check either set of numbers right now, perhaps tomorrow.

Edited January 9, 2010 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama]

Elections - February 1st.

[Kintamayama]

Now for the interesting part: Both ichimon may be playing a key role in the Takanohana brouhaha as they hold 17 and 13 votes respectively and may offer some potential for Taka to siphon off votes without the unfaithful voters endangering their own ichimon's spot. However, the leadership is having a different idea - with it being a virtual certainty that a vote will take place, both ichimon have agreed in principle to form a coalition and attempt to sneak away with a third riji spot; neither ichimon has had two riji since the tumultous 1998 election. Another meeting will be held on the 14th (Tokitsukaze) and 18th (Takasago) to figure out the details and presumably settle on a candidate suitable to both groups.

This will raise the total of candidates to 12. With Nishonoseki left with 22 votes (minus the 6 Takanohana votes), they may find themselves with only 2 delegates after the dust settles.. The one in the worst position at the moment is Naruto Oyakata. "There are still some days till the election, and a lot of things can happen till then. Magaki's voting either way won't change my wish to run for the job", he said. Still, there is a possibility that he might step down if he sees he has no chance.

Edited January 10, 2010 by Kintamayama

[Kintamayama]

Another meeting will be held on the 14th (Tokitsukaze) and 18th (Takasago) to figure out the details and presumably settle on a candidate suitable to both groups.

Shikihide is the name being mentioned.

[kaiguma]

Now for the interesting part: Both ichimon may be playing a key role in the Takanohana brouhaha as they hold 17 and 13 votes respectively and may offer some potential for Taka to siphon off votes without the unfaithful voters endangering their own ichimon's spot. However, the leadership is having a different idea - with it being a virtual certainty that a vote will take place, both ichimon have agreed in principle to form a coalition and attempt to sneak away with a third riji spot; neither ichimon has had two riji since the tumultous 1998 election. Another meeting will be held on the 14th (Tokitsukaze) and 18th (Takasago) to figure out the details and presumably settle on a candidate suitable to both groups.

This will raise the total of candidates to 12. With Nishonoseki left with 22 votes (minus the 6 Takanohana votes), they may find themselves with only 2 delegates after the dust settles.. The one in the worst position at the moment is Naruto Oyakata. "There are still some days till the election, and a lot of things can happen till then. Magaki's voting either way won't change my wish to run for the job", he said. Still, there is a possibility that he might step down if he sees he has no chance.

Looks like The Touched One actually knew exactly what he was doing... He can get himself on the riji and simultaneously punk the guy that was going to take "his rightful spot" in the first place. And by punking Naruto I mean actually punking the leaders of the ichimon who convinced Naruto to run when his heart wasn't really in it. He probably doesn't care either way, minus the fact that now he is already a candidate it looks pretty weak to withdraw.

[Asashosakari]

Looks like The Touched One actually knew exactly what he was doing... He can get himself on the riji and simultaneously punk the guy that was going to take "his rightful spot" in the first place.

But I'll remind you that there will be two spots coming available for the 2012 elections, as both Nishonoseki and Hanaregoma will be too old for another term. I continue to find it completely bizarre that Takanohana has been so hellbent on forcing his way in when the riji position was there for the taking with just two more years of patience. For all his reform talk, what's he going to accomplish in case he's getting iced out by the rest of the directorate? They can give him a meaningless department, he'll be forced to be all talk and no action for the duration of his term, and in two or four years he'll find it difficult to get re-elected without a true power base and no credentials to convince 'independent' voters again.

Okay, maybe he's already planning his hostile takeover of the rijicho position for 2012 and that's why he needs to get in now.

Shikihide ganbatte.

Edit: Tokitsukaze and Michinoku after the Tokitsukaze-ichimon meeting the other day:

Edited January 11, 2010 by Asashosakari

[Asashosakari]

Another aspect: the papers are all aflutter with the issue of how much of a close shave the Tokitsukaze-Takasago alliance is, with the 30 needed votes only available if they're leaning on Musashimaru via his borrowed kabu, but (to me) that seems to ignore the question of what the two truly independent voters in all this are going to do, i.e. Takadagawa and Sendagawa. I can totally see ex-Akinoshima throwing his support behind the third alliance candidate to screw Takanohana over. For his part, Sendagawa (the one thrown out of Takasago-ichimon after the 1998 election) has had a heart-to-heart with Taka. The gist: the ichimon structure is the traditional basis of the sumo world, he himself was very sorry to have to leave when he was expelled and it's been a difficult road for him as an independent, and Takanohana should reconsider just leaving it all behind. (Probably needless to say, all words to no effect.)

Edited January 11, 2010 by Asashosakari

[Asashosakari]

Edit: The above numbers were from Mainichi; Sanspo puts the two groups at 18 and 11 voting members instead. I'm guessing they count those two loaned kabu differently, but no time to double-check either set of numbers right now, perhaps tomorrow.

Well, here goes...the situation as currently constituted (number of riji in the old board in brackets):

Tokitsukaze (1): 17 (-1) oyakata, 1 gyoji

Takasago (1): 11 (+2) oyakata

Tatsunami (2): 17 oyakata, 1 rikishi, 1 gyoji

Dewanoumi (3): 30 (-1) oyakata

Nishonoseki (3): 21 oyakata, 1 rikishi

Takanohana: 7 oyakata

Independent: 2 oyakata

In fact, pretty much everybody's last spot appears at stake here in a 12-candidate election. Dewanoumi and Tatsunami can't be happy to at all about the games being played by the other three groups right now. Besides the two indy guys (and the question of how much support Takanohana truly has among Nishonoseki kabu holders, beyond the 6 who have declared for him), the big wildcard here may be Chiyotaikai. His retirement would give Takasago another vote - however, his kabu is currently loaned out to Toki (same heya), who would probably receive one of the cross-loaned shares in its stead.

I suspect that would be bad news for Musashimaru, what with the new-found unity between Tokitsukaze and Takasago making his share the more likely to be pulled back (rather than that held by Tokitsukaze's ex-Shikishima). There are two open shares he could switch to, but the mess extends right to that: one of them is the Araiso share, de iure owned by Kisenosato but de facto certainly in Naruto-oyakata's sphere of influence (of all people). The other one is Asakayama owned by Kaio, and I guess Tatsunami-ichimon also wouldn't mind getting their hands on another vote that way.

With so many voting blocs as close to the "10 per seat" line as they are, there's plenty of potential for one or two crossover votes to Takanohana causing a group to lose a spot, and of course also plenty of potential negative effects for any oyakata who is to be blamed for that. Perhaps the magic of Taka's charisma will be enough to transcend that, but I suspect we'll hear some more about various ichimons trying to ensure that it doesn't, as pretty much every group is at risk of Takanohana being elected at their expense, thanks to the third Tokitsukaze/Takasago candidate (who's having a pretty good shot) in the mix. And in case Nishonoseki ends up with just one riji or Dewanoumi with just two (keep in mind their three candidates are extremely high-powered: Musashigawa, Dewanoumi, Kitanoumi), I suspect all hell will break loose.

[Sokkenaiyama]

Hey, this is more entertaining than pure politics!

[Orion]

Looks like The Touched One actually knew exactly what he was doing... He can get himself on the riji and simultaneously punk the guy that was going to take "his rightful spot" in the first place. And by punking Naruto I mean actually punking the leaders of the ichimon who convinced Naruto to run when his heart wasn't really in it. He probably doesn't care either way, minus the fact that now he is already a candidate it looks pretty weak to withdraw.

And right out of left field, the four nice old guys I was talking to today (in front masuseki but they were clearly newcomers, like many front masuseki holders on Day2) were asking if his upcoming divorce next month would affect the outcome: I resolutely said "No" -- but I have to admit, I hadn't heard of a divorce. Has the super-wife finally had enough? And if so, how much will she be getting????

Doreen back from an interesting Day2

[Asashosakari]

He's replacing the ichimon's younger incumbent riji? I wonder if there's more to this story than we've heard thus far.

With so many voting blocs as close to the "10 per seat" line as they are, there's plenty of potential for one or two crossover votes to Takanohana causing a group to lose a spot, and of course also plenty of potential negative effects for any oyakata who is to be blamed for that. Perhaps the magic of Taka's charisma will be enough to transcend that, but I suspect we'll hear some more about various ichimons trying to ensure that it doesn't ...

And here we go, twice over. Going by the tone of a Mainichi report, Tatsunami-ichimon will turn next week's ichimon meeting into a veritable rally-the-troops effort to ensure that no votes are lost to the Takanohana camp; as indicated above they're far from assured to get both their candidates Oshima and Isegahama through the voting process. In a semi-related note from Daily Sports it's reported that Tomozuna-oyakata may snub that very meeting by not showing up - it appears his replacement in the riji lineup by Isegahama came by poll in an earlier meeting and was thus far from voluntary on his part.

At this speed I'm half-expecting the whole Kyokai to implode by February 1...

Edit: And right on cue and as I was typing that, today's Mainichi updates the situation with comments from an unnamed, but very worried-sounding "veteran oyakata" of the group, to the effect that several oyakata may be planning to skip the meeting and potentially refuse to toe the line in the voting. Oh boy. The ichimon meeting will take place on the 18th.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Asashosakari

[Asashosakari]

Oh for [expletive]'s sake...now Tomozuna-oyakata is also talking about running as an unapproved candidate, potentially giving us contender #13 and reducing the necessary number of votes to ensure election to 9 (good news for Takanohana, the Sports Hochi writer is quick to add). With ex-Toki now occupying Kaio's kabu, Tomozuna's "faction" has increased to five, prompting him to consider opposing the ichimon's decision to send Isegahama to the election in his stead.

Meanwhile, Kataonami-oyakata declared his support for Naruto the other day and seems headed for open confrontation with Magaki over the latter's decision to switch his support from Naruto to Takanohana, further fanning the flames in that ichimon. I'm just about all Takaed tuckered out about that side of this convoluted mess, so maybe somebody else wants to put the details into the other thread...

BTW, the deadline for candidacies to be officially announced appears to be the 28th, which at this rate should be plenty of time to find another three or five candidates. Or as my handy translation tool so aptly puts it, "possibility to enter into a great confused fight surfaced."

Edit: What the hell, let's update the running tally:

Tokitsukaze (1): 17 (-1) oyakata, 1 gyoji

Takasago (1): 12 (+2-1) oyakata

Tatsunami (2): 14 oyakata, 1 gyoji

Dewanoumi (3): 30 (-1) oyakata

Nishonoseki (3): 21 oyakata, 1 rikishi

Takanohana: 7 oyakata

Tomozuna: 3 (+1) oyakata, 1 rikishi

Independent: 2 oyakata

Edited January 13, 2010 by Asashosakari

[Asashosakari]

Another meeting will be held on the 14th (Tokitsukaze) and 18th (Takasago) to figure out the details and presumably settle on a candidate suitable to both groups.

Shikihide is the name being mentioned.

Shikihide would have been a clear interim candidate as he's already 62 years old. (I was thinking perhaps the 2012 candidate to replace him would then come from Takasago-ichimon.) Instead the ichimon has decided to go with a youth movement of their own in today's meeting by having 50-year-old Michinoku accompanied by 51-year-old Kagamiyama (former sekiwake Tagaryu). Shikihide was reportedly indeed also interested in the nomination, but the ichimon members voted "overwhelmingly" to send Kagamiyama.

Presumably this is still conditional on Takasago-ichimon signing off on it in their own meeting on the 18th, though the papers don't raise that issue so I'm guessing it's just about settled.

Edit: According to today's Sanspo Tatsunami-ichimon is planning to cooperate with the two Takadagawa voters to ensure 20 votes for its two candidates - although the Tomozuna developments mentioned above may have obliterated those plans already, I presume. And just to note, the various papers continue to disagree about whether kabu lent across ichimon lines will constitute a voter for the holder's or the owner's ichimon. Sanspo's in the "holder" camp; I'm inclined to follow Sports Hochi et al. here and assume that the owning ichimon will call the shots.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Asashosakari

[Asashosakari]

Tokitsukaze-ichimon's new dynamic duo, post-meeting:

[Asashosakari]

It's appears to be just about official now: Nishonoseki-ichimon will not seek any arrangement with Takanohana, but in order not to go into a battle they can't win, they will be reducing their own number of candidates to 2 in their upcoming meeting on the 19th. It's said that their 22 remaining ichimon members will get to vote on which two candidates will be nominated (Kataonami-oyakata: "in democratic fashion"), so this won't be handled simply by asking Naruto to withdraw his candidacy. (Although it could of course amount to much the same thing.)

In contrast to that Sports Hochi report, a Sanspo update posted at just about the same time quotes Naruto as insisting that he will not withdraw no matter what, but that article doesn't mention the planned runoff vote at all, so it may be obsolete information already.

Edited January 15, 2010 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama]

Now the papers are saying there will be 13 candidates. Tatsunami Ichimon seem to be going with three, as Tomozuna seems to be bent on chucking in the salt and joining the fray. Nishonoseki's Kitajin oyakata says he will be filling in the form with 4 names, including Takanohana's. The forms have been distributed to eachimon (each Ichimon) and the candidates have to be named by January 28th, with forms coming in between 1-2 pm.

[Kintamayama]

It is now looking like Naruto Oyakata will be withdrawing his candidacy, as the Nishonoseki Ichimon's voters are 22, no way that could bring in three seats. As for the six Oyakata who are backing Takanohana, the question remains if they will be leaving the Ichimon as well. "We have no intention of doing so, but if we are asked to leave , we will!", said one of them. They will be convening tomorrow. Tatsunami Ichimon convened today, and decided to send three candidates, rahther than their two, adding Tomozuna to the mix.

[Kintamayama]

The six Nishonoseki Ichimon Oyakata who are backing Takanohana decided to leave the Ichimon today. Ounomatsu, Oodake, Futagoyama, Otowayama, Tokiwayama, and Magaki-will all be leaving. This was decided after all 27 members were asked to support the Ichimon's two candidates, something the 'rebel 6' could not agree to. Hanaregoma Oyakata explained that this was not an excommunication, as they are not forcing them out. "If they're not forcing us out, why the vote in the first place? The word 'excommunication' wasn't used, but it sure feels like it..", said Magaki Oyakata.

In the end, the Ichimon decided to go with two candidates-Hanaregoma and Nishonoseki. So, one may ask, why didn't they do that in the first place and let Takanohana be the third?

Oodake, replying to others who said Takanohana should wait for the next term: "If he feels he needs to do it now, he should do it now, otherwise what's the point?"

Ounomatsu: "I was surprised by their decision to make us all vote for the two nominees. All Takanohana wants is to try to achieve his desires.."

The "bad guys" explaining the situation to the press- L2R- Naruto, Hanaregoma and Nishonoseki:

Edited January 19, 2010 by Kintamayama

[ilovesumo]

The NSK page is not yet updated.

I guess, even if more would follow leaving an ichimon, there cannot be a new one formed, right?

『Viva La Revolution』（ヴィヴァ・ラ・レヴォリューション) ;-)

Edited January 19, 2010 by ilovesumo

[yorikiried by fate]

This is all pretty significant, or am I wrong?

[ryafuji]

So there are now FIVE pariah stables - Takanohana, Onomatsu, Otake, Magaki and Takadagawa. Enough for a new ichimon - not that the first four have any connection to the fifth.

[Doitsuyama]

So there are now FIVE pariah stables - Takanohana, Onomatsu, Otake, Magaki and Takadagawa. Enough for a new ichimon - not that the first four have any connection to the fifth.

Not?? They might not follow the same politics but there sure are connections.