Another Mongolian gets Japanese citizenship

[Kintamayama]

Makushita Daitenshou from Takashima beya has acquired Japanese citizenship on November 9th. New name-Takayama Ken. This frees a foreigner spot in this heya, which has only one deshi, the said Daitenshou..

Edited December 21, 2009 by Kintamayama

[Sumo Menko Man]

Can you hold dual citizenship in Mongolia and Japan or did Daitenshou have to renounce his Mongolian citizenship?

[Chisaiyama]

Makushita Daitenshou from Takashima beya has acquired Japanese citizenship on November 9th. New name-Takayama Ken. This frees a foreigner spot in this heya, which has only one deshi, the said Daitenshou..

You can have a heya with only 1 deshi? What happens if he receives a career ending injury and is forced to intai? Does the heya have to shutdown or can there be a heya with no deshi whilst the oyakata goes on a massive recruiting campaign?

In another vein of thought, what happens if Daitenshou makes Sekitori? Who cooks, and cleans for the heya then? Who gets to be his tsukebito?

Edited December 12, 2009 by Chisaiyama

[Asashosakari]

This frees a foreigner spot in this heya, which has only one deshi, the said Daitenshou..

Unless it's a precursor to his quitting sumo and the winding down of the stable... Of course he still does have a non-trivial probability of reaching juryo (unlike some other Mongolians), so I'm not even guessing that this is what's going to happen. But it could.

Who cooks, and cleans for the heya then?

I'm pretty sure those issues are being handled in rather unconventional ways in such small stables anyway, sekitori or not. I mean, it's essentially a 6 (?) person household, nothing more.

Who gets to be his tsukebito?

They'd get some on loan from another stable in the ichimon.

[Asameshimae]

Japan does not allow people to hold dual citizenship past 20 years old. It's got to be one or the other. You even have to get an approved kanji name, though I heard that might be changing.

[ryafuji]

You even have to get an approved kanji name, though I heard that might be changing.

Yes, I remember reading in Gaijin Yokozuna how they wouldn't let Chad Rowan become a Japanese citizen, only Akebono Taro.

[Fay]

In another vein of thought, what happens if Daitenshou makes Sekitori? Who cooks, and cleans for the heya then? Who gets to be his tsukebito?

I really hope he makes it to sekitori. In this case it wouldn't be a problem, he can lend a tsukebito from another heya. Fujimoto from Onomatsu beya is tsukebito of Kotoshogigu from time to time and the Onoe beya rikishi always have tsukebito from other stable.

Edited December 13, 2009 by Fay

[Asashosakari]

Yes, I remember reading in Gaijin Yokozuna how they wouldn't let Chad Rowan become a Japanese citizen, only Akebono Taro.

Of course he didn't have to go with Akebono Taro specifically; he could have chosen Suzuki Ichiro as his legal name for all they cared.

[ilovesumo]

I bet they will have a new foreigner soon. I mean, this Heya really NEEEDS deshi. :)

[kaiguma]

You even have to get an approved kanji name, though I heard that might be changing.

Yes, I remember reading in Gaijin Yokozuna how they wouldn't let Chad Rowan become a Japanese citizen, only Akebono Taro.

Emphasis here might be on approved, as not all kanji is recognized for names. There are extensive lists available at the registry-place of any township, county, etc. and embassies/consulates abroad. Hiragana and katakana are allowed though. I am pretty sure Akebono could have been ろわん ちゃど but that could have been more of an affront to the kyokai than what eventually drove him away...

I am curious about the proposed change. Are they doing away with the restricted naming lists or allowing names to be given outside of Japanese script?

[bayar]

Makushita Daitenshou from Takashima beya has acquired Japanese citizenship on November 9th. New name-Takayama Ken. This frees a foreigner spot in this heya, which has only one deshi, the said Daitenshou..

is he has family how about his family

[Andreas]

As Makushita (non-sekitori) he probably wont be allowed to have official wife and kids, all he has to worry about are his parents.

[Chisaiyama]

In another vein of thought, what happens if Daitenshou makes Sekitori? Who cooks, and cleans for the heya then? Who gets to be his tsukebito?

I really hope he makes it to sekitori. In this case it wouldn't be a problem, he can lend a tsukebito from another heya. Fujimoto from Onomatsu beya is tsukebito of Kotoshogigu from time to time and the Onoe beya rikishi always have tsukebito from other stable.

Thanks for the info. I must say the tidbit about Fujimoto and Kotoshogiku intrigues me. A stable as big as Sadogatake has to occasionally "borrow" tsukebitos? I realize they have several sekitori but I guess I'm a little unclear on the subject, how many do each sekitori get? I assume it's according to rank (of course we all know about assume LOL).

[Fay]

In another vein of thought, what happens if Daitenshou makes Sekitori? Who cooks, and cleans for the heya then? Who gets to be his tsukebito?

I really hope he makes it to sekitori. In this case it wouldn't be a problem, he can lend a tsukebito from another heya. Fujimoto from Onomatsu beya is tsukebito of Kotoshogigu from time to time and the Onoe beya rikishi always have tsukebito from other stable.

Thanks for the info. I must say the tidbit about Fujimoto and Kotoshogiku intrigues me. A stable as big as Sadogatake has to occasionally "borrow" tsukebitos? I realize they have several sekitori but I guess I'm a little unclear on the subject, how many do each sekitori get? I assume it's according to rank (of course we all know about assume LOL).

In Kotoshogiku's case it's not that Sadogatake has to borrow a tsukebito. As both stables work together very often it's more a chance for Fujimoto to earn some money and experience. Usually Kotoshogiku has Kotomyozan and Kotomisen as tsukebito and additionally Fujimoto from time to time.

[Orion]

In Kotoshogiku's case it's not that Sadogatake has to borrow a tsukebito. As both stables work together very often it's more a chance for Fujimoto to earn some money and experience. Usually Kotoshogiku has Kotomyozan and Kotomisen as tsukebito and additionally Fujimoto from time to time.

Do tsukebito get paid now?

[Otokonoyama]

Thanks for the info. I must say the tidbit about Fujimoto and Kotoshogiku intrigues me. A stable as big as Sadogatake has to occasionally "borrow" tsukebitos? I realize they have several sekitori but I guess I'm a little unclear on the subject, how many do each sekitori get? I assume it's according to rank (of course we all know about assume LOL).

According to Grand Sumo Fully Illustrated, juryo sekitori get one or two, makuuchi sekitori get two to five, and yokozuna may have ten or more.

[Otokonoyama]

In Kotoshogiku's case it's not that Sadogatake has to borrow a tsukebito. As both stables work together very often it's more a chance for Fujimoto to earn some money and experience. Usually Kotoshogiku has Kotomyozan and Kotomisen as tsukebito and additionally Fujimoto from time to time.

Do tsukebito get paid now?

Perhaps Fay is referring to something like this...

"...some Sekitori are known to give their Tsukebito some of their kensho winnings. Oyakata and Sekitori have also been known to give the lower rankers some pocket money as well, a sort of allowance similar to that which a parent would give to a child. Koenkai members will also give some money to the toriteki of the heya they support..."

[Orion]

In Kotoshogiku's case it's not that Sadogatake has to borrow a tsukebito. As both stables work together very often it's more a chance for Fujimoto to earn some money and experience. Usually Kotoshogiku has Kotomyozan and Kotomisen as tsukebito and additionally Fujimoto from time to time.

Do tsukebito get paid now?

Perhaps Fay is referring to something like this...

"...some Sekitori are known to give their Tsukebito some of their kensho winnings. Oyakata and Sekitori have also been known to give the lower rankers some pocket money as well, a sort of allowance similar to that which a parent would give to a child. Koenkai members will also give some money to the toriteki of the heya they support..."

Yes, this is common knowledge. I heard it back in the 1970s. But in each case it's an individual matter, and I wouldn't call it 'earning' money. That's why I asked, in case payment had been regularised and I'd not heard the update, or in case Fay had some insider knowledge that I'd missed.

Thanks anyway.

Orion

[Otokonoyama]

In Kotoshogiku's case it's not that Sadogatake has to borrow a tsukebito. As both stables work together very often it's more a chance for Fujimoto to earn some money and experience. Usually Kotoshogiku has Kotomyozan and Kotomisen as tsukebito and additionally Fujimoto from time to time.

Do tsukebito get paid now?

Perhaps Fay is referring to something like this...

"...some Sekitori are known to give their Tsukebito some of their kensho winnings. Oyakata and Sekitori have also been known to give the lower rankers some pocket money as well, a sort of allowance similar to that which a parent would give to a child. Koenkai members will also give some money to the toriteki of the heya they support..."

Yes, this is common knowledge. I heard it back in the 1970s. But in each case it's an individual matter, and I wouldn't call it 'earning' money. That's why I asked, in case payment had been regularised and I'd not heard the update, or in case Fay had some insider knowledge that I'd missed.

Thanks anyway.

Orion

You of course know that tsukebito pay has not been regularized. And congratulations on hearing some common knowledge before some of us did. Receiving money on certain occasions from the sekitori one attends to could be considered earning, as they are being compensated for their effort. It might not be a regular salary, it might vary in amount, it might even be favors or gifts other than money. Those that do receive have certainly earned what they get. Or, you can call it something else. Either way, I suspect you dropped by to snark. Mission accomplished! (Sign of approval...)

[Orion]

You of course know that tsukebito pay has not been regularized. And congratulations on hearing some common knowledge before some of us did. Receiving money on certain occasions from the sekitori one attends to could be considered earning, as they are being compensated for their effort. It might not be a regular salary, it might vary in amount, it might even be favors or gifts other than money. Those that do receive have certainly earned what they get. Or, you can call it something else. Either way, I suspect you dropped by to snark. Mission accomplished! (Sign of approval...)

Huh? are you confusing me with someone else? What's snarky about asking for information? Fay very often knows something I don't, as also does Vicki, because they are much younger than I am and in recent years have spent much more time watching sumo and getting to know a lot of the sumo people.

And what's this about 'dropped by'? I log in twice a day on average, to make sure I'm not missing anything; it's true I never open the Sumo Games threads and never take part in the Polls, but I read all the informational threads.

BTW, going back to the original title of this thread, I ran into Kyokutenzan yesterday on Ryogoku station; he's visiting from Germany for a couple of weeks.

Orion

[shimodahito]

good day all,

i'm learning so many new tidbits from this thread... very interesting... and another reason why the members of this forum rock!

-shimodahito

[ryafuji]

You of course know that tsukebito pay has not been regularized. And congratulations on hearing some common knowledge before some of us did. Receiving money on certain occasions from the sekitori one attends to could be considered earning, as they are being compensated for their effort. It might not be a regular salary, it might vary in amount, it might even be favors or gifts other than money. Those that do receive have certainly earned what they get. Or, you can call it something else. Either way, I suspect you dropped by to snark. Mission accomplished! :-P

Huh? are you confusing me with someone else? What's snarky about asking for information? Fay very often knows something I don't, as also does Vicki, because they are much younger than I am and in recent years have spent much more time watching sumo and getting to know a lot of the sumo people.

And what's this about 'dropped by'? I log in twice a day on average, to make sure I'm not missing anything; it's true I never open the Sumo Games threads and never take part in the Polls, but I read all the informational threads.

BTW, going back to the original title of this thread, I ran into Kyokutenzan yesterday on Ryogoku station; he's visiting from Germany for a couple of weeks.

Orion

It may not have been your intention, but posting just "Do tsukebito get paid now?", reads very much like, "You're not seriously suggesting tsukebito can earn money, are you?" It did to me at any rate. That's one of the problems with internet forums - you can come across as snarky when you didn't mean to! :-)

[Kintamayama]

Moukonami from Tatsunami beya has acquired Japanese citizenship as well, it has become known today. He acquired it on November 18th. He is the second sekitori from Mongolia to do this after Kyokutenhou. Additionally, yet another rikishi from Makushita belonging to Tatsunami beya acquired his citizenship on the same day- Daiounami, making it a grand total of 3 Mongolians from Tatsunami ichimon acquiring citizenships in a span of 9 days. So Tatsunami beya goes from two foreigners to none in a second. Daiounami's new name is Nakata Bayaru (written in Kana), which kind of contradicts what was written here earlier in the thread. Moukonami is now Ishikawa Shigeru? (栄)

Edited December 21, 2009 by Kintamayama

[Asashosakari]

Since it was buried in another thread, here's where we first heard of Mokonami's intentions:

There is going to be one less Mongolian. It has been reported that juryo Mokonami intends to obtain Japanese citizenship. He submitted his application last January and received approval from the Japanese government in December. Now, he is awaiting the response from Mongolia. "I have also filed the required documents in Mongolia," he said. "I just need the president's okay [sic]. I expect that during this year."

He added, "I made the decision with my future in mind. I want to do my best and remain with the Kyokai [after my active career]." He already has his Japanese name picked out. He will use his oyakata's surname of Ichikawa and the second part of his shikona, Sakae. As for his Mongolian wife and one-year-old daughter, their application will be filed after he completes his process.

Now, Daionami definitely strikes me as the type who's getting the citizenship in preparation of an exit from Ozumo...26 years old and never been in upper makushita? Doesn't leave much doubt, I'm afraid.

And on that note...apparently his birthdate was stealth-corrected by the Kyokai at some point; his profile lists his birthyear as 1983 while the SDB has it as 1984. Must have happened quite a ways back, the only archive.org copy of the page from 2006 already has the corrected date.

Edited December 21, 2009 by Asashosakari

[ilovesumo]

Hehehe...

longing to overcome the 1-per heya rule it feels....

Moko's wife is Mongolian as his child is as you could read here.

Dunno for Daionami, but you hardly find a Mongolian single in Sumo.

Most of the Europeans won't do that I bet. I was laughed at, or looked at with an expression like "are you kidding???" when asking some of em.

Edited December 21, 2009 by ilovesumo