Chiyotaikai- I will not retire!

[Saruwatari]

Call me a dreamer, but I have nothing but respect for Chiyotaikai after these words.

Of course, he can retrier and becomes oyakata (or any other career, if he prefers) any time now, take care of his health, etc. Of course, it is more than obvious that he is near the end of his track, and his sumo now is more surviving than for yusho-challenging.

But the real hero fights till THE END. Yes, the end is ugly and unpleasant to watch - but the easier path is not what he is after.

I agree. And it's not the first time. At hatsu 2008, he goes 0-7 and goes kyujo. If I remember correctly he actually wanted to continue, but his oyakata forced him to pull out. And then there was the 2-13 from Haru this year. He could have gone kyujo after his eight loss, but didn't. He kept on fighting and losing, making a complete fool of himself, but it does show some spirit. He rather fights and loses, than not fight at all.

I don't think he can make it though, but we will see. It'll be interesting.

[Barang]

Definitely Chiyotaikai wish to continue his career, but his time in Ozeki rank seems to be over. I feel be a little bit boring when he after every MK makes suddenly 8-7 KK by winning some Ozekis. If he falls MK in tournament then it will be very unlikely that he will return to Ozeki rank ever again. Next few days will show his future if he will be at least 5-1 after 6 days then honest KK is still possible.

[Harry]

If his matches the first week go like today he could be 7-0... Weak version of his good old tsuppari and yank down but Tokitenchu 'fell' for it.

[Flohru]

I feel be a little bit boring when he after every MK makes suddenly 8-7 KK by winning some Ozekis.

Oh common, after every MK that happens??? Chiyotaikai has been kadoban 13 times before but only three times he saved himself with an 8-7. And in those three basho only three wins overall came against Ozeki (as came 3 losses).

[ryafuji]

I feel be a little bit boring when he after every MK makes suddenly 8-7 KK by winning some Ozekis.

Oh common, after every MK that happens??? Chiyotaikai has been kadoban 13 times before but only three times he saved himself with an 8-7. And in those three basho only three wins overall came against Ozeki (as came 3 losses).

Yes, but it's been two out of the last three times: 8-7, 9-6, 8-7. Hardly convincing comebacks.

[Flohru]

Oh common, after every MK that happens??? Chiyotaikai has been kadoban 13 times before but only three times he saved himself with an 8-7. And in those three basho only three wins overall came against Ozeki (as came 3 losses).

Yes, but it's been two out of the last three times: 8-7, 9-6, 8-7. Hardly convincing comebacks.

Well, apart from the last, very close 8-7 the other two mentioned KK came after an 8-3 and an 8-4 start. In the end the results don't look convincing, but his KK were at least never in danger.

In any case I was referring more to the fact that it was NOT because of wins against fellow Ozeki that Chiyo was able to maintain his rank in the past, something quite a lot of people seem to get wrong.

[Barang]

Chiyotaikai 2 -4 after six days. I suppose that he will fall to second straight MK.

[Tikozan]

And no other Ozeki can help him in the second week with their own bad results...

[HenryK]

What I don't really understand is why is it anyone's business if Chiyo retires or not at Ozeki. if Takanonami's maegashira streak was allright, if Konishiki was allright, what is wrong with chiyo going all the way? Personally, I'd like seeing how he fares without the ozeki privileges (i.e. one kachi-koshi per two basho). What is his real rank?

He'd be a great rikishi in the maegashira ranks. I'd love seeing him in the meatgrinder. Albeit if it's all gachinko, which is.. hmm.. hard to judge.

My unreserved approval, sir. (Showing respect...)

Edited November 20, 2009 by HenryK

[Skotkotaikai]

Kaio beat Chiyotaikai! All hope is lost! (Showing respect...)

I don't believe Chiyotaikai will be able to score 10 wins as Sekiwake next basho. Still, it is admirable he fights to the very end.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Skotkotaikai

[ryafuji]

Kaio beat Chiyotaikai! All hope is lost! (Shaking head...)

I don't believe Chiyotaikai will be able to score 10 wins as Sekiwake next basho. Still, it is admirable he fights to the very end.

Someone over on Sumotalk said they didn't think Chiyotaikai could win ten from anywhere in the division, and I agree. He just has nothing left.

[Otokonoyama]

Is it just the camera angle or is he looking really small too? He looks tiny in the top picture. We'll know pretty soon...

He's lost a lot of weight since he got tonyubyo

At his peak his was around 160kg, and now he is around 150 kg (using Doitsubase); not sure weight-loss is his problem...

[Harry]

I think he's been a great ozeki but I don't want to watch him go down like this. Please, Taikai, make sure you go out with dignity.

[Asashosakari]

At his peak his was around 160kg, and now he is around 150 kg (using Doitsubase); not sure weight-loss is his problem...

IIRC he was reported to have lost 10+ kg prior to Haru basho due to illness (diabetes-related? can't recall), which seems confirmed by his weight trend at the Kyokai site:

200805: 152

200809: 150

200901: 150

200905: 144

200909: 152

And I'd be shocked if his current 152 kg are as "well-shaped" (for lack of a better term) as they were back last year. He seems to have lost a lot of power and his sumo's lost the necessary oomph to at least dominate the maegashira types along with it.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Asashosakari

[Sumo Menko Man]

I wonder if the other rikishi aren't giving him any mercy now since he made his intentions known. Maybe they are pissed because of his comments....didn't Asashoryu say that he should be focused on fighting rather than going into a basho talking about his "vulnerabilities?" Kaio looked pissed last night during the bout. Maybe because they were both hometown boys, but maybe they are all gunning for him now.

I admire him for his effort, but it is time to go. I think he should go out on top rather than risk a demotion and make-koshi from the Sekiwake rank. Go out on top they always say!

[Kintamayama]

Kaio looked pissed last night during the bout.

More than anything, KaioU looked extremely sad after the bout . I watched it on NHK, and they zoomed into his face-sadness at the realization that he virtually sealed Chiyotaikai's demotion. The expression was there for a few long seconds, as was the camera.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Kintamayama

[ryafuji]

I guess the Back Scratchers' Club has disbanded?

[Asashosakari]

I guess the Back Scratchers' Club has disbanded?

At the risk of tooting my own horn too much (since I already did so at ST, and I was surely not the only one to predict that Taikai's done - hey there Clancy) - I'll maintain that all the backscratchy stuff both by ozeki and other rikishi is grounded in the perception that somebody "belongs" at a particular rank. Taikai finally blasted that perception to smithereens with his second pathetic 2-win record in just a few tournaments, so it was up to him to show he still deserves the benefit of the doubt. He failed to do that in the first ~five bouts so now guys are going all out because there's no point to doing anything else. (And luckily it'll fall to the two yokozuna to finish it off, lest anybody get second thoughts about it. But hoo boy, will I look stupid if he henkas Asashoryu again and somehow gets to 8 wins...)

Anyway, I doubt the club is dead; it's just been decided that dragging along Taikai wasn't worth it anymore, neither for him nor the others.

Edit: I kinda hope Taikai goes back on his word and either a) retires right here in his home basho, or b) keeps going below sanyaku. Trying and failing at sekiwake in January would be pretty much the worst way to go out. Either he'll do the improbable and get to something like 6-6 before losing his shot, which would be a rather awkward way to finish up, or he'll go 4-6 which would just be pointless, or he'll really bomb and find himself at 1-6 which would be depressing to have as our last memory.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Asashosakari

[Asameshimae]

I guess the Back Scratchers' Club has disbanded?

Back Scratching can only take one so far. He seems to have lost enough umph that it would take "unspirited sumo" from way too many wrestlers to make it work. Though it may be time for him to go, I will miss his brand of sumo if he goes. You don't see tsuppari like that much these days (perhaps because it doesn't work consistently enough?). He was a beauty to watch when he was on his game, even if he was a one trick pony. Was it so far back; the bout when Asashoryu let Taikai's tsuppari get the best of him, and Taikai was looking like a million dollars?

[Kozaru]

I knew somebody would link the Kaio win to a failure of the club, so I had to make my first visit this basho and post a reply. I said to my girlfriend before the match that it would probably be a fair fight. There are reasons the club didn't apply this time, which should be obvious:

1. Kaio didn't have his 8, and would himself be in trouble if he threw the match.

2. More importantly, he knew Chiyo was screwed anyway! With 5 losses going in, Chiyo would have had to win every non-Yokozuna match he had left! That means he'd have to beat all 4 Ozeki. With Haruma seemingly not interested in joining, and Kotooshu in the yusho race (hopefully for a while), that seems unlikely. THEN he would also have to win both remaining matches against guys below Ozeki, one of whom should be Baruto (who is now on his own Ozeki quest and cannot helicopter himself out for Chiyo again). Chiyo was beyond help, as Asanomeshi already pointed out.

As I've said a couple of times before, when the end comes, it would be fitting if Kaio finishes off Chiyo, or vice-versa. These 2 have been peers and equals for a long time.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Kozaru

[Kintamayama]

I guess the Back Scratchers' Club has disbanded?

More like Chiyotaikai's OBSC membership card has expired and his submission to renew it has been turned down. Permanently.

[01010101]

I guess the Back Scratchers' Club has disbanded?

More like Chiyotaikai's OBSC membership card has expired and his submission to renew it has been turned down. Permanently.

hahahaha priceless.

[madorosumaru]

When asked by the media about his thoughts on Taikai's current predicament, Kaio could only mutter sadly the Japanese equivalent of "There, but for the grace of God, go I."

[Gusoyama]

all the backscratchy stuff both by ozeki and other rikishi is grounded in the perception that somebody "belongs" at a particular rank.

I completely agree. This has nothing to do with money or clubs, and has everything to do with "face" and respect.

[yorikiried by fate]

all the backscratchy stuff both by ozeki and other rikishi is grounded in the perception that somebody "belongs" at a particular rank.

I completely agree. This has nothing to do with money or clubs, and has everything to do with "face" and respect.

and wins = rank = money