Someone please decipher this

[Kotoseiya Yuichi]

I have absolutely no intent to badmouth religion (agnostic as I am) but it never ceases to amaze me how anything can be given religious connotations as evidenced by this piece of paper kindly delivered to my doormat this morning.

So, if I vote in the EU parliamentary elections, I commit a sin? :-D

[furanohana]

:-D

[Fujisan]

Hmmm message to self-"Tread carefully."

The beast of revelation is not the EU and the two horned beast is not the catholic and protestant church-I could tell you the truth but you wouldnt like it,so unless you really want it answered I will leave that there.

As for whether its a sin to vote for the EU,no I wouldn't say its a sin but a christian should show no affiliation with the politics of this world and instead should trust in Gods kingdom/goverment that we keep praying for in the lords prayer.

[Kintamayama]

I have absolutely no intent to badmouth religion (agnostic as I am) but it never ceases to amaze me how anything can be given religious connotations as evidenced by this piece of paper kindly delivered to my doormat this morning.

So, if I vote in the EU parliamentary elections, I commit a sin? :-D

Oooh...wait till Rijicho sees this.. you opened Pandora's box here..

OOOOOHH. Rijicho will eat you for lunch!!

[Fujisan]

If anyone WOULD like an explanation of the beasts of revelation or the scarlet coloured lady,you can always send me an email or private message.

[Manekineko]

Oooh...wait till Rijicho sees this.. you opened

Edited December 10, 2003 by Manekineko

[Kotoseiya Yuichi]

Actually rijicho tells me he'll have some risotto. Eh, those smileys do need some weeding. To the to-do list...

These pamphlets remind me of the lyrics of a Finnish hard rock band Kotiteollisuus. When people asked what line about a "kaunis kukka" ("beautiful flower") meant in a recent song of theirs, the lyricist replied that it's a mind-numbingly blatant reference to a crankshaft of a Lada 1600 Kombi station wagon. What else?!?!?

I guess you can read whatever between lines if need be. :-D I believe I just saw in today's TV schedule Tochinonada's zensho yusho revealed. Come to think of it, might've been a 7-8 just as well.

Hmm, mental notes again to myself...

Edited December 10, 2003 by Kotoseiya Yuichi

[Asashosakari]

So, if I vote in the EU parliamentary elections, I commit a sin? :-D

Well that's a relief then...I'm actually considering not voting in the EU elections next year (first vote ever that I'd be abstaining from), but that was based on entirely non-religious reasons. Good to know I'm secure on the religious front, too! (Blushing...)

[Zenjimoto]

Was that text actually written with a TYPEWRITER???

If so: BRUUU-HA HA HAA HAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAR! Very impressive. Maybe the sequel will be written with quill and ink on papyrus... Stone chisling, anyone?

Cheers

Zenjimoto

[Asashosakari]

Was that text actually written with a TYPEWRITER???

If so: BRUUU-HA HA HAA HAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAR!  Very impressive.  Maybe the sequel will be written with quill and ink on papyrus...  Stone chisling, anyone?

Ink? Blood. ;-) Sinners' blood, naturally.

BTW, at the risk of needlessly prolonging this thread, does anyone have a clue what might have been the rationale behind the '666 = EU parlament' connection, other than wishful thinking? Can't be the number of seats, which is 626 (to my knowledge)... Maybe I'm just trying to find sense where none can be found by me...after all, it says "a person who has understanding", which probably excludes agnostics like Kotoseiya and me, as far as this subject is concerned. (Laughing...)

Edited December 10, 2003 by Asashosakari

[Kaikitsune Makoto]

Pandora’s box!!!!!!!!!! Hai!

I don’t know about beasts other than the Sapp guy but this is my religious contribution to the forum! Read it or ignore it.

What strikes me the most odd in the concept of Christian god is the fact that why would people be so ”dumb” and on totally different wavelength as this god? It is even said that god created man to be his image so why isn’t this image more like god in mental aspect too? Why can god expect people to believe in him if he made us the way we are? He should know everything and be uncomprehensibly superior to anything we humans can even imagine? Why don’t we see his actions anywhere? Why can’t we see his work in the way we would understand it? What is the use? Why would god create mankind only to confuse it into turmoil and world of millions of gods? Sometimes human beings experiences some kind of awakening and then just ”knows” god exists and that Jesus penetrated the heart and lives there now etc. but I am sure that Moslims have their awakening moments too ( I don’t know but I would think that Arabian individual can also be a ”haven’t really thought about it”-kind of human for long and then all of a sudden gets this awakening and becomes close friends with Mohammed. Also hindi must have profound connection with their god and so all these are sure that ”of course our god is the right one! I know it. I just know it” so would this mean that all are right and there are many gods after all? Or does it mean that one of these is right and others and pagans and just lost sheep? If so, who can know??? Everybody in their own religion feels strongly the presence of their ”holy spirit” and is sure that it is the ultimate truth. The point is that this is a jungle and it is confident to say that ”because I feel my god in my heart I know it is the right one and all other gods are false even though millions of other people think exactly the same about my god because they have their own god in their hearts”. I find these equations hard to fathom. Polygamia may be the truth or it may not. COmplete absence of gods may be true or it may not. Maybe conscience is the god in us? Does every child have conscience by default? Sure conscience could be suppressed too but are there really people who don’t have that at all? Hmm..maybe this is the god.

The often used claim ”How can god allow such misery and injustice in world?” is very legimitate one. If god is so good, why would he punish innocent people so badly day after day? It is punishing alright since it is in his hands whatever happens. Then this Adam, Eve, apple, snake and condemnation. So humans are supposed to suffer forever after the first ever couple was more or less temptation prone?

Then religious people say ”Oh! God has made another miracle!!” after a terminally ill patient miraculously gets better or a child falls to 15 metre well full of snakes and manages to survive the fall without a scratch and none of the poisonous snakes bite him and people will praise ”Praise the Lord! He was protecting the child!!!”. At the same time serial killer pedophile tortures a 6 year old for 10 days before chopping her to pieces, soldiers rape 200 women in a village and execute all men and boys, throw babies to fire. Nobody praises the lord then but say ”This was god’s will..whatever he decides is for the best..he knows”. God gets a lot of credit for good deeds and then one is supposed to look at it the bright way when atrocities happen in front of his eyes and he just does nothing. The whole point is that I have never understood the massive injustice god then allocates to humans. Some prayers are ”answered”. Most aren’t. Holy Spirit selects the people randomly? God works in mysterious ways? Well that must be true at least! Very mysterious indeed. Why keep us in the shadow?

Having studied medicine and how human being works..that can be quite an amazing road. The miraculously and even ridiculously ingenious systems our bodies have is stunning. Also in nature in general, the construction is incredible. It is indeed hard to imagine that only time can make such a compilation of events that work in harmony. And all would have been born in a astronomical ”soup” of simple compounds where then first amino acids spontaneously were synthesized and at some point random events started a cascade of events lasting billions of years resulting in for example probably the most complicated and mysterious living entity in this universe: human brain. In this I could imagine a greater power starting it all up as time induced evolution is just too incomprehensible to fathom as is the fact that there is a god who is everywhere and is the creator of all. This must be the ultimate mystery though! Nobody can ever know where all came from for sure and why. Take a look at a brain of a deceased when it is detached from skull and put on table. That ugly looking fragile tissue strikes you silent when you try to think what it can do and how there are so much unknown features in it that it makes you want to laugh in disbelief (or cry if you are a brain scientist with excessive amount of impatience heh). Slicing human brain into slices is somehow odd experience at first. Kind of like it is odd to think about one’s own brain!! Like ”I am thinking of my brain causing me to think about thinking of a brain!! How funny is that??? Very!

My personal belief is that of great confusion. I have no idea why would god create mankind and leave the rest of the space empty of life (as many believers claim), why would he be strange and not work on his creature’s wave length at all, why would he make things like lama, where did he get all the ideas for scorpions, Kintamayama, maple leafs, crying phenomenon etc. or maybe he just kickstarted it and laid back on his devine divine and let evolution work every now and then correcting it a bit. Maybe he is a man of great humour? But then again is his humour similar to ours? Why would he have a gender if he is alone? So many questions, so little answers.

I am curious yes. I hope that if there indeed is a god who knows all and has created all, he also acknowladges the human mind and doesn’t punish me too badly for having a human nature. If there isn’t a god I am still aware of the human brain and find it as fascinating that nature has built itself into such state! So whatever the case is, world is miraculous no matter what the source is (even if aliens made us, the question goes..who made aliens!!! And we always end up to THE question: Where did it all start???). I think I will now have a 5 minute solemn moment of silence, close my eyes and think of the miraculous world and its wonders! Hai.

One more comment! Fate! What is that? If all of us would have a fate, that would make god a bit strange wouldn’t it? Control freak….and why would god determine when is the time to go ie die? ”It was his/her time to go..”.Oh? Well….

I don’t really understand atheism either. It is a religion too really. For some atheists even one comment about god is red cloth which is also very strange phenomenon.

[Doitsuyama]

Amen.

[Takanobaka]

Convoluted logic and just about everything else. I would give it about as much credence as the local looney who prophesizes the end of the world and shouts about our impending doom in public places. Not worth the thirty seconds of my time I tried to think about it.

[Yubiquitoyama]

I don

Edited December 10, 2003 by Yubiquitoyama

[Kotoseiya Yuichi]

I have created a monster.

[Zenjimoto]

I have created a monster.

Well, what did you expect? ;-)

It's a monster even BEFORE the inevitable flame war has begun! (Laughing...)

Cheers

Z.

[Asashosakari]

I would say I'm technically an agnostic, but I generally call myself an atheist, because I think most people will be closer to guess my viewpoint if I call myself an atheist than if I call myself an agnostic.

Curiously enough, I've taken to calling myself an agnostic for much the same reason, even though my position is pretty much identical to yours. (Laughing...) I don't think atheism is specifically a religion, just an ideology (it's missing the religious central figure(s) after all), which can be taken too far just like any ideology can, and unfortunately has been taken too far by a few, more extremist atheists.

So calling myself an atheist tends to result in some eye-rolling and underhanded comments in certain places, and frankly, I just don't care enough about religion either way :-) so I'd rather call myself an agnostic than have to deal with the reactions to "I'm an atheist". If people understand what I'm trying to say with the "agnostic" label, fine, if they don't, no big deal either. :-)

It's a monster even BEFORE the inevitable flame war has begun!

Edited December 10, 2003 by Asashosakari

[Fujisan]

Actually Asasho the 666 number of the beast is explained very simply and its right there in the bible-REV13*18 Says at the end of the verse "It is MANS NUMBER and its number is 666." It doesnt say that it is a number or quantity of men but it is mans number,meaning it signifies something human as opposed to spirit in nature.

[Asashosakari]

Actually Asasho the 666 number of the beast is explained very simply and its right there in the bible-REV13*18 Says at the end of the verse "It is MANS NUMBER and its number is 666." It doesnt say that it is a number or quantity of men but it is mans number,meaning it signifies something human as opposed to spirit in nature.

I understand that, I was wondering where the pamphlet writer's suddenly equating of 666 with the EU parliament came from. Unless you're saying that 666 is the number of ALL of man, in any circumstance? That would make it a pretty worthless argument for a pamphlet, other than shock value...

[Fujisan]

Its a worthless pamphlett with worthless arguments from someone more interested in pushing their predjudice against the EU,than the truth Asasho.

[Fujisan]

Oh and Kaikitsune,I have answered all the points you mentioned many times over but couldnt answer them at such short notice so Im not gonna even try.

Two points that grab my attention though is why there are so many people of differing views saying they have the truth,why would god confuse us with millions of other gods? He didnt,each of these gods is man attempting to build a god which fits their own requirements-we as human need to stop trying to make god what we him to be and search for who he really is and then change ourselves to what he wants us to be.

One point I do agree with you on is when every seemingly miraculous event is credited to God when non miracle are not.Although Im sure God does help out occassionally for reasons only he knows,to credit all to him is not correct.

On the other hand the idea that "God took him" is also a mistaken viewpoint,God no more dictates the manner and time of our death than he dictates how we live the rest of our life-Time and unforseen circumstances Kaikitsune,nothing more.

[Hashira]

  Oh and Kaikitsune,I have answered all the points you mentioned many times over but couldnt answer them at such short notice so Im not gonna even try.

even though it may begin a flame war and i may not be able to read it all without a severe headache, i would kind like to read the rest of your points, fujisan.[

[Fujisan]

Give me some time and I will do what I can Fukuno,if its okay with Rijicho-

You dont have to worry about upsetting me though Fukuno,its not genuine questions and disagreement which get my back up,its people who think their opinion somehow gives them the right to laud it over me-Nothing gets my back up more than those(normally so called Christians of a different faith to me) with a holier than thou attitude-And nothing I enjoy more than taking them down a peg or two.

[Kintamayama]

we as human need to stop trying to make god what we him to be and search for who he really is and then change ourselves to what he wants us to be.

How do we know what HE wants us to be? AFAIK, each and every God out there wants us to be something else. I actually do believe in God for many reasons, but I do occasionally get conflicting messages about what's what.

[Fujisan]

To start with Kinta,there is only one God out there,all the others are mere images created by the mind of man.

What is the best way to get to know anyone Kinta?Ask him yourself and be prepared to accept the answer because I guarantee it wont be the one you expect.