Kotooshu

[Otokonoyama]

Kotooshu with the president of Bulgaria, his wife, the order (without ribbon) and the Japanese ambassador.

Wife? Are you sure about this? His wedding was supposed to happen in February 2010.

Well, no... I am not sure.. I know that the wedding is announced for feb 2011, however I assumed that it refers to the wedding ceremony. But my impression is that when it comes to sekitori-marriages, they first "register" their marriage, then announce to the press, and the ceremony itself comes months after that.

So I made a wild guess here.

That order of business is fairly common among the general population in Japan as well, at least these days.

[Kuroyama]

Will it be an Orthodox or Shinto wedding?

[Orion]

Will it be an Orthodox or Shinto wedding?

Just a big party for which everybody is expected to pay a minimum of 50,000 yen (compared with a minimum of 20,000 for, say, a fellow worker at the office). Two used to be considered a bad luck number, but when the price of wedding celebrations rose beyond the old ten thousand yen bottom limit, suddenly twenty became all right. But sumo weddings, like showbiz and political ones, cost more because they are a great opportunity to move round the tables between courses and get your picture taken with the important guests. That's how I first met Kaio, though I got to know him quite well even then, because he and I ended up getting a drunken gyoji out and into a taxi without anybody else noticing. I did eventually write about it, but it's only available in a Kansai Time Out back number. (Laughing...)

[Treblemaker]

Will it be an Orthodox or Shinto wedding?

...drunken gyoji...

Heh.. Sorry, but something about that oxymoron just stuck me as funny. Like its cousins, "Military Intelligence", "Tastefully Bland" , "Horribly Good" and "Minister of Education".

And that brings to mind Hiro's constant use of the phrase "Gyoji-Referee". He must have used that meme at least 40 times in his broadcasts. Isn't it a bit redundant? Like "Tuna Fish".

Anyway, back on topic, I'm wondering if his success of late is due in some part to her influence. With his physical attributes, can you imagine the carnage if he also has the manic drive of Asashoryu? There'd be stains on the ceiling.

[Kuroyama]

Will it be an Orthodox or Shinto wedding?

Just a big party for which everybody is expected to pay a minimum of 50,000 yen (compared with a minimum of 20,000 for, say, a fellow worker at the office)

I know this is usual in Japan, but I had kinda expected something more ceremonious would be expected of a rikishi for some reason, even if in private.

This is something I've been curious about with East European rikishi though. There are elements back home among whom a civil marriage would not go over well. (Bulgaria is sufficiently conservative to have elected its pre-WWII tsar as prime minister after Communism fell.)

... a drunken gyoji ...

Now *that* would make for an entertaining wedding. "I said hakke-yoi, dammit! Now get to it!"

Edited August 1, 2009 by Kuroyama

[Orion]

This is something I've been curious about with East European rikishi though. There are elements back home among whom a civil marriage would not go over well. (Bulgaria is sufficiently conservative to have elected its pre-WWII tsar as prime minister after Communism fell.)

In Japan, the only legal way to get married is to go to your local ward (or town) office and register yourselves as married. How you celebrate privately is entirely your own choice. I'm pretty sure that Kotooshu will want to have (will have had?) a 'real' wedding, maybe at St. Nikolai Russian Orthodox church near Ochanomizu. The priest is an ethnic Ukrainian, I believe, but had to choose Russian nationality so he could go on being a priest. My informative hairdresser is Russian Orthodox (and in case you think we are straying from sumo, her long-deceased father used to make gyoji fans, gumbai ) so I occasionally get news about that church. I also get information from another old friend (we originally met as fellow-comedians in 'Midsummer Night's Dream', but that's another story entirely) who is now an Orthodox priest with an English-speaking congregation that my Anglican church hosts twice a month. So every now and then I get an unexpected sidelight into the world of former Soviet Union sumo. (Memo: ask Father Paul about it.)

Of course, it is also quite possible that the happy couple tied the knot while in Bulgaria. Awaiting further information.....

Orion

[Manekineko]

I suppose whether he gets an Orthodox wedding or not depends on his own religiosity. I suppose not all Bulgarians are religious, and Kotooshu may well belong to those who don't care about Church wedding. And I think Bulgarian Orthodox Church is separate from Russian Orthodox one, so I'm not sure if it's "allowed" (ie. legal from Bulgarian Orthodox Church's point of view) if he gets married with a Russian Orthodox rite. OTOH, Catholic Church recognizes Orthodox sacraments, so I suppose the wedding would be valid after all.

[salle]

Will it be an Orthodox or Shinto wedding?

.bg news web sites say it will be Buddghist ceremony "because that's the heya's requirement" quoting Kotooshu's father.

[Kuroyama]

In Japan, the only legal way to get married is to go to your local ward (or town) office and register yourselves as married. How you celebrate privately is entirely your own choice. I'm pretty sure that Kotooshu will want to have (will have had?) a 'real' wedding, maybe at St. Nikolai Russian Orthodox church near Ochanomizu. The priest is an ethnic Ukrainian, I believe, but had to choose Russian nationality so he could go on being a priest. My informative hairdresser is Russian Orthodox (and in case you think we are straying from sumo, her long-deceased father used to make gyoji fans, gumbai ) so I occasionally get news about that church. I also get information from another old friend (we originally met as fellow-comedians in 'Midsummer Night's Dream', but that's another story entirely) who is now an Orthodox priest with an English-speaking congregation that my Anglican church hosts twice a month. So every now and then I get an unexpected sidelight into the world of former Soviet Union sumo. (Memo: ask Father Paul about it.)

It's a common misconception that the Tokyo cathedral is dedicated to St. Nicholas. Its formal name is actually the Church of the Resurrection. Its popular name "Nikolai-do" comes from its founder, Bishop Nikolai (Kasatkin), now St. Nikolai of Japan. The dean of our own cathedral in San Francisco, Archpriest John Takahashi, was (I think) once attached there.

The Orthodox Church of Japan is an autonomous church, able to administer most of its own sacraments, but remains a dependency of Russia. I don't doubt there are nationality issues when it comes to non-Japanese clergy there; relations with Ukraine aren't the best.

I suppose whether he gets an Orthodox wedding or not depends on his own religiosity. I suppose not all Bulgarians are religious, and Kotooshu may well belong to those who don't care about Church wedding. And I think Bulgarian Orthodox Church is separate from Russian Orthodox one, so I'm not sure if it's "allowed" (ie. legal from Bulgarian Orthodox Church's point of view) if he gets married with a Russian Orthodox rite. OTOH, Catholic Church recognizes Orthodox sacraments, so I suppose the wedding would be valid after all.

All local Orthodox churches recognize each other as sister churches. That's what makes them Orthodox. What the Pope says matters not at all.

Something over 80% of Bulgarians self-identify as Orthodox, but a great many of them are nominal. Orthodoxy is seen as a cultural identifier in Eastern Europe, particularly since the fall of Communism, and only a minority are particularly devout. But that's the same as anywhere.

If the wedding must be Buddhist and Kotooshu is going through with it , then that answers one question I had about him: whether or not he was religious enough to perhaps avoid the tsuna for that reason. For a devout Orthodox Christian even the normal day-to-day rites of sumo are pushing the envelope of what is allowable; the ceremonial function of a yokozuna either at shrines or during a basho goes way too far. But if he doesn't scruple over a Buddhist wedding -- even if he had a private Orthodox wedding beforehand -- then such would no doubt not bother him at all.

Edited August 2, 2009 by Kuroyama

[kaiguma]

And that brings to mind Hiro's constant use of the phrase "Gyoji-Referee". He must have used that meme at least 40 times in his broadcasts. Isn't it a bit redundant? Like "Tuna Fish".

Oh? How about Shiba Inu Dog, ATM Machine, or the European Ozeki Kotooshu? [he has Europe in his shikona]

As for true oxymorons, Kotooshu makes me think: 'jumbo shrimp'

What is Harumafuji: 'shrimp jumbo?'

or 'Little Big Man'

[Orion]

Buddhist wedding? I find it hard to believe the heya is pushing that. It's rare in Japan. Shinto rites are commonly used for weddings and Buddhist for funerals. Unless a family is running a temple I doubt they would insist on a buddhist wedding.

I'd be surprised, too. Incidentally I checked today with my friend of Ukrainian ancestry and he says there's a Russian Mission in Meguro and that if Oshu goes to church it would probably be there. Sorry about my earlier mistake about Nikolai Cathedral; I did know its history but haven't read it again in decades.

[OT] Hoping that the rain will have cleared up in exactly two hours so that we can have the Bon Odori dance in the big street south of Ryogoku station. Kasugano oyakata was there with his family last night -- watching not dancing. I forget how many years it is since I talked Gagamaru and Tochinoshin into coming and watching.

Orion

[salle]

Buddhist wedding? I find it hard to believe the heya is pushing that. It's rare in Japan. Shinto rites are commonly used for weddings and Buddhist for funerals. Unless a family is running a temple I doubt they would insist on a buddhist wedding.

I don't believe it too. What news media claims is often based on false assumptions. For some strange reason it is common belief in Bulgaria that almost everyone in Japan is Budhist and in rare case someone heard about Shintoizm they believe it's some kind of Budhism too.

As for 80% of Bulgarian being Orthodox it's both correct and wrong. When asked I describe myself as "non-religious orthodox christian" and there is big number of people (nobody knows how big) who are same or similar. Non-religious, but when asked they have no doubt to identify themselves as Orthodox. Even people who say are very religious and believe often go to church couple of time per year only. There is centuries long history behind that phenomenon which was emphasized during communist era a lot but not caused by it.

[Kuroyama]

As for 80% of Bulgarian being Orthodox it's both correct and wrong. When asked I describe myself as "non-religious orthodox christian" and there is big number of people (nobody knows how big) who are same or similar. Non-religious, but when asked they have no doubt to identify themselves as Orthodox. Even people who say are very religious and believe often go to church couple of time per year only. There is centuries long history behind that phenomenon which was emphasized during communist era a lot but not caused by it.

This is what is meant by "nominal".

[Kintamayama]

Interview:

http://paper.standartnews.com/en/article.p...p;article=28321

[Chisaiyama]

This is not easy at all for the sumo schools are exactly 105: the owners retire at the age of 65 and this is the only moment when you can buy the rights of the one who retires. Our stablemaster Maguchi is only 55

Interesting statement from one who has been in Ozumo this long now. Obviously there are not 105 "schools" there are only around 54 or 55, I've lost the exact count. And who is the Maguchi he refers to? I did not find that listed as a given or family name for moto-Kotonowaka in Doitsuyama's DB, although since he is 55 that is who he is speaking of. And in any case Kotooshu is only 26, surely he can expect to be active, barring major injury for at least another 7-8 years in that time any number of Kabu are going to become available for rent or purchase.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Chisaiyama

[ryafuji]

This is not easy at all for the sumo schools are exactly 105: the owners retire at the age of 65 and this is the only moment when you can buy the rights of the one who retires. Our stablemaster Maguchi is only 55

Interesting statement from one who has been in Ozumo this long now. Obviously there are not 105 "schools" there are only around 54 or 55, I've lost the exact count. And who is the Maguchi he refers to? I did not find that listed as a given or family name for moto-Kotonowaka in Doitsuyama's DB, although since he is 55 that is who he is speaking of. And in any case Kotooshu is only 26, surely he can expect to be active, barring major injury for at least another 7-8 years in that time any number of Kabu are going to become available for rent or purchase.

Kotonowaka is only 41; it can't be him he's referring to.

I'm not sure this interviewer understood much of what Oshu was saying. Where did he get the figure of 700 match wins? He hasn't even won half that professionally.

[Asojima]

This is not easy at all for the sumo schools are exactly 105: the owners retire at the age of 65 and this is the only moment when you can buy the rights of the one who retires. Our stablemaster Maguchi is only 55

Interesting statement from one who has been in Ozumo this long now. Obviously there are not 105 "schools" there are only around 54 or 55, I've lost the exact count. And who is the Maguchi he refers to? I did not find that listed as a given or family name for moto-Kotonowaka in Doitsuyama's DB, although since he is 55 that is who he is speaking of. And in any case Kotooshu is only 26, surely he can expect to be active, barring major injury for at least another 7-8 years in that time any number of Kabu are going to become available for rent or purchase.

I suspect the interviewer and Osh were having some translation problems. The 105 figure is probably the number of Kabu ( Kyokai shares ) available. They normally become available for sale when an oyakata reaches age 65. The number 55 probably is the number of heya (or stables) rather than an age. "Schools" is probably oyakata rather than heyas.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Asojima

[Asashosakari]

Kotonowaka is only 41; it can't be him he's referring to.

In fact, after Hasegawa's retirement none of Sadogatake-beya's oyakata is older than 48. Ten years from now the stable might well be crawling with oyakata like Dewanoumi still did a decade ago...

In any case, my best guess was Magaki who turned 56 a few months ago and is in the right ichimon, but I think I agree that the interviewer just completely misunderstood whatever Osh was trying to say there.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Asashosakari

[salle]

This is not easy at all for the sumo schools are exactly 105: the owners retire at the age of 65 and this is the only moment when you can buy the rights of the one who retires. Our stablemaster Maguchi is only 55

Interesting statement from one who has been in Ozumo this long now. Obviously there are not 105 "schools" there are only around 54 or 55, I've lost the exact count. And who is the Maguchi he refers to?

This article is translated summary of the Bulgarian one at http://paper.standartnews.com/bg/article.p...;article=288323

As you can see the original is much longer. The statement above is translated wrong. In Bulgarian version what Kotooshu literally says is:

"According to the sumo federation statute the coaches are exactly 105. No less, no more"

There are other wrongly translated parts. Perhaps "interpreted" is better term.

As for "Maguchi" it is in Bulgarian text too so I can only assume they recorded wrongly something he said about Makuuchi division. The number 55 probably slipped out of another sentence about heya number.

[Orion]

Ten years from now the stable might well be crawling with oyakata like Dewanoumi still did a decade ago[/url]...

There were a lot, but note that not the whole list is Dewanoumi stable -- it goes on to the rest of the ichimon.

[salle]

Find below the full translation of the Bulgarian article. I hope I am not violating some 'Standart News Ltd.'. copyrights by posting it here.

Few notes.

*It's mostly literal translation trying to keep the spirit of the interview. Some paragraph don't make good sense in Bulgarian too so there is certainly some disconnect between what Kotooshu wanted do say and what ended up in the published interview.

* There are several factual mistakes in the interview Kotooshu simply can't make himself.

* Between the lines we can read the interviewer was quite surprised, perhaps shocked by many of the replies.

* I was surprised to read he had no idea about life in a heya at all and expected it to be like with other sport "milksops" if we use his words. If that's the case I'm going to respect him much more from now on.

* The interview somewhat confirms what I was suspecting for quite some time - Kotooshu has another oyakata here in Bulgaria. That's The Chief - Petar Stoyanov who is rumored to be unbeaten by Kotooshu during training, with whom Kotooshu is said to have long phone discussions before key bouts and who is said to be of great moral support for Kotooshu during his entire career.

Happy reading and please pardon my bad English.

[Fay]

Thank you for the effort Salle! (In jonokuchi...)

[Kaji]

Thanks salle (In jonokuchi...)

It seems that the english sumary distorted an interview already full of misunderstanings

[Kintamayama]

It was tournament with two Japanese and one Mongolian. The latter was most difficult. I won against all three.

Memory lapse there. That would probably be Hoshikaze, who finally will become a sekitori this basho, and Arawashi the Mongolian, so there was one Japanese (Kubotayama, retired) and two Mongolians.

Nitpicking Kotooushuu. Boy oh boy oh boy.

Edited August 5, 2009 by Kintamayama

[salle]

It seems that the english sumary distorted an interview already full of misunderstanings

That's what happens when both interviewer and translator don't take any time to prepare or check the facts afterwards and skip even simple proofreading.

"It's good that or coach had calls with my parents and the manager of bulgarian federation Petar Stoyanov .." for example obviously should be " ... with my parents, the manager of bulgarian federation and Petar Stoyanov .."

It doesn't take hours to find out Tokoyama is not personal name not to mention mysterious "Chankomishi" at the end which contradicts "The names of all sumo wrestlers in our school start with Koto" at the beginning of the same text.

How do you translate "I did beat at least 700 of all wrestlers" to an interview title: "I have won some 700 sumo matches" is indeed a mystery.

Edited August 5, 2009 by salle