Natsu 2009 Banzuke

[Kintamayama]

CORRECT ONE:

Hakuhou Y Asashouryuu

Kotooushuu O Harumafuji

KaioU O Kotomitsuki

Chiyotaikai O

Baruto S Goueidou

Kakuryuu K Tochiouzan

Houmashou 1 Aminishiki

Takekaze 2 Kyokutenhou

Tamanoshima 3 Toyonoshima

Kisenosato 4 Aran

Tochinonada 5 Yoshikaze

Kotoshougiku 6 Chiyohakuhou

Asasekiryuu 7 Wakanosato

Iwakiyama 8 Tamawashi

Tokitenkuu 9 Yamamotoyama

Futenou 10 Shimotori

Miyabiyama11Toyohibiki

Takamisakari 12 Dejima

Hokutouriki13 Tochinoshin

Kokkai 14 Kakizoe

Shoutenrou 15 Bushuuyama

Kimurayama 16

Edited April 28, 2009 by Kintamayama

[Kintamayama]

Juryo:

Tosayutaka 1 Moukonami

Masatsukasa 2 Wakakouyuu

Kitataiki 3 Sakaizawa

Kasugaou 4 Kotokuni

Toyozakura 5 Kotokasuga

Kouryuu 6 Tosanoumi

Ushiomaru 7 Hakuba

Shirononami 8 Kyokunankai

Kasuganishiki 9 Wakatenrou

Asoufuji 10 Daishouumi

Hoshihikari 11 Kaihou

Kirinowaka 12 Kiyoseumi

Okinoumi 13 Tamaasuka

Sagatsukasa 14 Juumonji

Edited April 26, 2009 by Kintamayama

[Asashosakari]

Considering it was still before 6am when you made the posts, I would guess "guess".

[Kintamayama]

Considering it was still before 6am when you made the posts, I would guess "guess".

I have a gut feeling this is for real for some reason, contrary to any logic..

[Asashosakari]

It was a guess-i'm correcting as we speak..

I would have scored 69 points against the Izutsu guess, which alone was a sign that it was too good to be true. (Showing respect...)

[Asashosakari]

First thought about the new makuuchi banzuke: Wow, that's certainly dynamic, but without much rhyme or reason.

Kotoshogiku M2e 6-9 -> M6e

Miyabiyama M3e 4-11 -> M11e

Hokutoriki M1e 2-13 -> M13e

Takamisakari M7w 6-9 -> M12e

Notable exception: Wakanosato M5e 6-6-3 -> M7w. Funny, that's where I had him, just the surroundings are totally different... And probably also Futeno M9w 7-8 -> M10e. Ahead of Miyabiyama?! (Edit: Just realized that Kotoshogiku behind Yoshikaze is also rather odd, of course.)

49 points for me in GTB if I counted correctly...9-6 or 10-5 converted record, I'd guess. For kicks I should treat it like an S4 banzuke and see if I'd scored better that way... (44 points for the Izutsu guess, BTW. And to edit-answer my own question: S4-style would have been only 47 points, arguably even just 43 because I would have Homasho as the komusubi.)

Edited April 26, 2009 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama]

And, ultimate proof..:

[Fukurou]

And, ultimate proof..:

I can't doubt the "ultimate proof", but I find it odd that it's not on the NSK website yet. Maybe in a few more hours?

(ETA: It IS mentioned on some of the news sites - for example, Japan Today has a brief story)

Edited April 27, 2009 by Fukurou

[Kintamayama]

I can't doubt the "ultimate proof", but I find it odd that it's not on the NSK website yet. Maybe in a few more hours?

Come on, we're always about 6 hours earlier than the NSK. For quite a few years now. It takes the NSK a while to to update their site. We always get the banzuke from all sorts of places-it usually takes a half an hour to verify, but that's been done already.

[Fay]

Kakuryuu K

Yesssssssss, first step to Yokozuna. (Showing respect...) (Clapping wildly...) (Showing respect...) (Holiday feeling...) (Holiday feeling...)

[Fukurou]

I can't doubt the "ultimate proof", but I find it odd that it's not on the NSK website yet. Maybe in a few more hours?

Come on, we're always about 6 hours earlier than the NSK. For quite a few years now. It takes the NSK a while to to update their site. We always get the banzuke from all sorts of places-it usually takes a half an hour to verify, but that's been done already.

And all that work is greatly appreciated.

You'd think a group like the NSK would have their latest news, especially on such a routine matter, ready to release on their website when they announce it to the press (or at least when the banzuke sheets are handed out to the supporters). Then again, they don't even do that much when they announce who is going to be absent on day 1 of a basho - it's on the website at 11AM, even though major absences are already in the news before that.

[Asashosakari]

Masuto had already been moved to sandanme on the board at Chiganoura yesterday.

Well, that's something that could be figured out on the Wednesday after senshuraku already... There were going to be at least 22 promotions from sandanme to makushita, and only 16 rikishi (plus two intai and the Wakakirin open slot) were in worse positions than Masutoo.

[Treblemaker]

My first impression was "wow!" This banzuke is nothing like the last one - and the only way I can rationalize it is that it's a "transitional" lineup. Should make for an interesting couple of weeks.

If you exclude the top few people, I don't see more than 10% of the names sticking to their positions (within 1-2 moves up or down) beyond this basho. A lot of people in strange places.

And my undying respect for the sure-handed, supremely patient and steel-nerved people who hand-letter those banzuke. If I had to do that, I'd be chewing off my right arm by the time I got to the bottom of the page...

[Asojima]

And my undying respect for the sure-handed, supremely patient and steel-nerved people who hand-letter those banzuke. If I had to do that, I'd be chewing off my right arm by the time I got to the bottom of the page...

Which brings back an unanswered question that I asked earlier. Is there, in fact, a handcrafted, single sheet banzuke, or is the copy we see actually cobbled together from several pieces? I find it hard to believe that there is an entirely mistake-free single copy created. Is an original masterpiece copy posted anywhere?

[satsuhikari]

First thought about the new makuuchi banzuke: Wow, that's certainly dynamic, but without much rhyme or reason.

Kotoshogiku M2e 6-9 -> M6e

Miyabiyama M3e 4-11 -> M11e

Hokutoriki M1e 2-13 -> M13e

Takamisakari M7w 6-9 -> M12e

Notable exception: Wakanosato M5e 6-6-3 -> M7w. Funny, that's where I had him, just the surroundings are totally different... And probably also Futeno M9w 7-8 -> M10e. Ahead of Miyabiyama?! (Edit: Just realized that Kotoshogiku behind Yoshikaze is also rather odd, of course.)

...

In my opinion this Banzuke is not dynamic, it's very strange (mabe even ridiculous)

We were told so, but nevertheless: Tochiozan as Komusubi instead of Homasho is illogical

There has never been a Sekiwake with 5-10 who fell down to M5, absolutely needless to let Kisenosato drop that far.

Kotoshogiku's rank is very dubious. A M2e with 6-9 falling down to M6 is extremely rare. (Especially compared to Wakanosato who only dropped 2 ranks...)

I didn't find an eyplanation for Tamawashi's new rank and why he is ahead of Tokitenku (Showing respect...)

Miyabiyama falling behind Futeno is not only a joke, it's a scandal. And Takamosakari being ranked 2 full ranks behind Futeno is also outrageous!

Especially if we look at Dejima, who was almost 2 ranks behind Takamisakari and now is besides him... (Holiday feeling...)

I can't remember any M1 that fell down 12!! ranks with a 2-13. Sure, his performance was very bad, but his slide must be a precedent.

Tochinoshin staying ahead of Kakizoe is another farcial joke. (compared to Takamisakari/Futeno with identical records)

[ryafuji]

Miyabiyama's slide is an interesting one. Two years ago he did fall from M3E to M9W with a 4-4-7 but it still seems a little harsh. He's now at his lowest rank since January 1999 - before he entered makuuchi. Dark horse for the yusho, anyone?!!

[Doitsuyama]

Well, if you find the recent banzuke decisions ridiculous, be thankful for Musashigawa rijicho or any rijicho. Just think what decisions will happen if the current banzuke chief becomes rijicho in the future. Those banzuke are a good taste for things to come and we can only hope for other rijicho in the next 28 years.

[Asashosakari]

Well, if you find the recent banzuke decisions ridiculous, be thankful for Musashigawa rijicho or any rijicho. Just think what decisions will happen if the current banzuke chief becomes rijicho in the future. Those banzuke are a good taste for things to come and we can only hope for other rijicho in the next 28 years.

Well, it's not Takanohana anymore, he's out of the shimpan group since February. I'd be more than ready to shift the blame to Takasago now, but...

The one constant is Mihogaseki, I guess.

[Doitsuyama]

Hmm, I forgot about Takanohana's shifting, yes. Mihogaseki isn't really new, or? The banzuke is so weird, I wonder who had the main influence here...

[Asashosakari]

Hmm, I forgot about Takanohana's shifting, yes. Mihogaseki isn't really new, or? The banzuke is so weird, I wonder who had the main influence here...

My new theory is that Mihogaseki is the one who's nuts, but was held in check by Chiyonofuji until he left early last year... (Of course, by the same token it could also be Hanaregoma.)

When I saw the banzuke, I halfway expected some Japanese player must have won GTB with 10 points more than everybody else. Unless they're really just rolling dice now, there has to be some new policy and I'm surprised that nobody seems anywhere close to figuring it out yet.

[Jakusotsu]

When I saw the banzuke, I halfway expected some Japanese player must have won GTB with 10 points more than everybody else. Unless they're really just rolling dice now, there has to be some new policy and I'm surprised that nobody seems anywhere close to figuring it out yet.

When I saw the banzuke, I halfway expected a GTB yusho for Kuramarujo. ;-)

(...too bad he'll never read this...) :-)

[Asashosakari]

Good thing I didn't post a makushita guess this time...if anything, that division is an even bigger mess than makuuchi. The highlights (and I'm only halfway through):

Ms11w Hokutokuni 4-3 -> Ms5w (+6)

Ms14e Sokokurai 5-2 -> Ms6e (+8)

(and right below with Ms12w and Ms15e they did it the other way around)

Ms8w Dairaido 1-6 -> Ms25w (-17)

Ms12e Surugatsukasa 2-5 -> Ms23e (-11)

Ms16e Kurosawa 3-4 -> Ms26e (-10)

Ms14w Hochiyama 4-3 -> Ms8w (+6)

Ms18w Satoyama 5-2 -> Ms11e (+7.5)

Ms21w Ryuho 4-3 -> Ms15e (+6.5)

Ms21w Ryuho 4-3 -> Ms15e (+6.5)

Ms22e Minami 4-3 -> Ms17w (+4.5)

(with absolutely no good reason to split them that far apart)

[Treblemaker]

I'm still looking at it, and it still makes no sense - even the next day...

I'm guessing, unlike the last basho, where everyone seemed to go 8-7, 7-8, etc, and no one pushed for a yusho, this time around we might see a lot of double-figures... on both sides of the win-loss column. Who knows? Someone might even make a run for the yusho, and might even break through that Ozeki Buffer Zone! Kind of like Red Rover, no?

Ok, no.

I'm thinking a LOT of sake must have gone into the building of this one.

[Jakusotsu]

I'm thinking a LOT of sake must have gone into the building of this one.

I suspect vodka. Time for another drug test.

[Tikozan]

Other things I don't understand:

TAKAMISAKARI M7w -> M12e

DEJIMA M9e -> M12w

but both had 6-9 ;-)

SHOTENRO M12w -> M15e

KIMURAYAMA 15w -> M16e

but both had 7-8 :-)