Post Basho YDC meeting

[Doitsuyama]

at the risk of splitting one of Nishi's few remaining hairs (sorry Nish) :-D when was it Akebono too Japanese nationality?

Your English just sucks for an English teacher unless I am not aware of some finer grammar points. Aside from that Takanohana became yokozuna in Hatsu 1995 and Akebono assumed Japanese nationality at some point between July 1995 and May 1996 (not sure when exactly). So I guess Nishinoshima is totally correct.

[Asashosakari]

at the risk of splitting one of Nishi's few remaining hairs (sorry Nish) :-D when was it Akebono too Japanese nationality?

True, Akebono took citizenship. But, is/was he considered Japanese? As I'm sure you well know, they are considered two very different things.

It doesn't change Nishi's point anyway...the change in citizenship came after his stint as the sole yokozuna (1993.03-1994.11).

[Musashoryu]

As a western fan of Sumo and a lifetime Japan-ophile let me give my perspective....i love the tradition and culture of Sumo and I dont want to see it change.....In my mind Hakuho is a model of Yokozuna in and out of the ring.....but the western part of me loves the controversy of Asa and I enjoy watching his passion, still I know that it is very much not a part of Sumo culture and I wouldnt like others to emulate him......but nothing gets me more excited in Sumo than watching Asa doing what he does best.....here is my little secret I jumped up and clapped my hands together with excitement and joy when he won the other day in the middle of a crowded Japanese restaurant, so that shows how the passion comes across! So I have no problems with the YDC having words with him as it there job to continue the beautiful traditions of Sumo but I also enjoy Asa in way only a non-Japanese could!

[Washuyama]

I think that was said rather well...

[Bilu]

I think that was said rather well...

Indeed...

I wonder WHY is Asa doing it...

- Is it just a burst of emotions or a conscious decision to 'transform' sumo?

- If the former - can't he restrain his conduct?

I cannot recall having read anything suggesting an answer to these questions..

[Otokonoyama]

(Whistling...)

Well that's a fairly odd dig seeing as I appear to have avoided the genes for hair loss that are common on one side of my family.

Surprised you'd go down the personal route anyway seeing as I was kind enough to avoid the obvious comeback in the photo thread that if you were sent to Japan on a 007-like mission it must have been because of your ability to blend in with the hosts height-wise. :-D

I wouldn't mess with anyone like Bond...

http://conneryjapan.ytmnd.com/

(NSFW)

B-)

[Gacktoh]

Akebono assumed Japanese nationality at some point between July 1995 and May 1996 (not sure when exactly).

April 1996

[Sasanishiki]

Well, the question I'm trying to ask here was.... whether all these complains of Asa's behavior is pure sumo-do matter or behind it hides very simple grudge of Japanese seeing two foreigners (and specifically Asians) dominating their sport at moment.

In this matter of celebrating his victory by waving to everyone, I think it is clearly a case of Asa not adhering to sumo-do as a yokozuna. I think the evidence for this is the past reprimands issued to Japanese athletes like tochiazauma when they celebrated a yusho with an overt display of emotion. Tochiazuma would not have been held to the same high standards as Asashoryu because he was not a yokozuna, so given that Tochi was criticised we can only believe that Asa should be criticised (and judged more harshly) because of the rank he holds.

[Jonosuke]

What I wanna say to you with my previous posting was ...please, take it easy. I don't think Asa is that harmful to Japanese tradition and society as you think. Even you Japanese seem not that serious about your "old" traditions any more . ( That's same in my country too).

Many Japanese don't follow sumo....even I dare to say that their knowledge of sumo is sometimes worst than ordinary Mongolian.

I don't think I am as passionate about this issue actually. No rikishi however great you consider him to be is not beyond Ozumo. It's been around hundred of years in more or less the same form. The era of Asashoryu will surely come to pass as it did for all the other yokozuna. In fact by not remaining with Ozumo, his influence in Ozumo will be quickly dissipated with new generations of rikishi the fans will flock to.

Many Japanese don't follow sumo but I'd bet they all know who their yokozuna is. Moti posted TV ratings that they consider to be the best in the last little while, so people are watching. Ozumo is organically tradition bound. You can't escape from it. It is just like the world of kabuki or Maiko in Kyoto. There are strict rules and processes. Either you accept them when you join or you don't join at all. I am not saying they are all good or bad but they are there when you enter them.

All I am saying is since they are followed by every other rikishi, I think he can at least try to make some effort to do the same. There are still many fans who respect the traditions and as a yokozuna he could at least try to empathize with them and respect their feelings.

[Treblemaker]

I've been reading this and other threads regarding Asashoryu's finer and not-so-finer points, and whether a Yokozuna should follow tradition or do the old fist-pump/hands-in-the-air thing.

There's no right answer, and no winner of this argument, although it's kind of like religion - everyone has their own beliefs, and is willing to stand by them.

I respect Nishi's argument, and perhaps that's the one that, under utopic settings, would exist. I also understand where other people are coming from, appreciating the expression of passion that Asa shows.

My point is this: Did you HEAR the crowd each and every time Asa raised his arms? Did you SEE their reaction when he won, and afterwards when receiving the awards?

Check the videos and the pics from that bout - especially the people in the MOST expensive seats at the foot of the dohyo. And I understand that ticket sales and tv viewing went through the roof for this basho, compared to the last 3.

Listen to the crowd in the videos of those two final bouts - and compare the reactions in both. In the first, Hakuho's victory got a good cheer, but nothing compared to the playoff - that was almost off the scale.

So, while I respect everyone's opinions (mine tend to be down the middle - I appreciate tradition, but enjoy a well-deserved warcry) - I think watching and listening to the immediate reaction of the fans (instincitve behaviour, before they have time to think and criticize) to see the outright enjoyment of a good, emotional release.

If the required outcome of the bout were to follow the traditional hold-your-emotions-in-check let's-be-dignified routine, the crowd would simple have applauded, and then gone home.

In other words - if it's ok for the fans to yell and scream, why not the rikishi as well?

[Jonosuke]

In other words - if it's ok for the fans to yell and scream, why not the rikishi as well?

Well it's not exactly the same thing. Can you try to climb up on the dohyo, hopefully with no shoes on?

Asashoryu has been yokozuna for close to half a dozen years. During most of those years, the tv ratings were dismal (according to reports) and arenas half-empty but does that make him less of yokzouna than he is now. Of course not.

Regardless of how people react to or flock to, his worth as yokozuna has not changed a bit. During the period when he was winning consecutive yusho, he came as close to perfection as far as his sumo was concerned. Everyone acknowledges he was not himself in the first few bouts or even to the mid basho. The excitement he generated has been great for Ozumo but that's not a real reflection of his worth as yokozuna. He was as great or more likely far greater when the fans were not screaming their heads off. We all have a short memory.

[Treblemaker]

In other words - if it's ok for the fans to yell and scream, why not the rikishi as well?

Well it's not exactly the same thing. Can you try to climb up on the dohyo, hopefully with no shoes on?

Asashoryu has been yokozuna for close to half a dozen years. During most of those years, the tv ratings were dismal (according to reports) and arenas half-empty but does that make him less of yokzouna than he is now. Of course not.

Regardless of how people react to or flock to, his worth as yokozuna has not changed a bit. During the period when he was winning consecutive yusho, he came as close to perfection as far as his sumo was concerned. Everyone acknowledges he was not himself in the first few bouts or even to the mid basho. The excitement he generated has been great for Ozumo but that's not a real reflection of his worth as yokozuna. He was as great or more likely far greater when the fans were not screaming their heads off. We all have a short memory.

Fair enough, I see your points, and they're quite valid.

So, if that's the case, having 1 Yokozuna (as in half of last year) (or any year) isn't what the doctor ordered. Having two dimetrically opposing Y's is a good thing. Makes sense.

What was it like in the brief time that there were multiple Yokozunas? Was too many not good either?