Beer or Milk?

[Wakatoryu]

I have been able to use the search function almost exclusively the past month for answers to any questions I have had, (there is quite an archive available here! Thank you very much!)

There is however one silly question I have wondered about, why is Beer so preferable to the Sumo diet as opposed to milk? Is there a major nutritional difference for this I am unaware of that perhaps makes Japanese beer preferable to Japanese milk? Tradition? Cost and availability? Do the benefits really outweigh the health risks? (Incidentally, what is the law with regards to underage drinking in Japan? Do the Heya abide by this for new recruits until they have reached the legal/appropriate age?) (Cheers...)!.... ;-)

Edited December 21, 2008 by Wakatoryu

[Kofuji]

You've heard of beer bellies, right ;) When my wife was working in Japan, I remember seeing lots of beer vending machines, but no milk vending machines.

[Orion]

I have been able to use the search function almost exclusively the past month for answers to any questions I have had, (there is quite an archive available here! Thank you very much!)

There is however one silly question I have wondered about, why is Beer so preferable to the Sumo diet as opposed to milk? Is there a major nutritional difference for this I am unaware of that perhaps makes Japanese beer preferable to Japanese milk? Tradition? Cost and availability? Do the benefits really outweigh the health risks? (Incidentally, what is the law with regards to underage drinking in Japan? Do the Heya abide by this for new recruits until they have reached the legal/appropriate age?) (Cheers...)!.... ;-)

Until recent decades milk was not part of the ordinary Japanese diet, except in Hokkaido, which is why many of the strong men of the past hailed from there. But where on earth did you get the crazy idea that beer is a regular part of the sumo diet? The youngsters are encouraged to eat rice, rice and more rice, assisted down by an assorted stew called chanko-nabe, and that is what puts on the solid weight. Beer is not part of the young ones' regular diet, only something they can have at parties -- and then usually a senior keeps an eye on them.

In public places underage drinking can be severely cracked down upon. Of course a heya is a private place, so if there is a party the juniors may indeed indulge, with the master's permission. I was at a mochi-zuke (ricecake-pounding party) many years ago in my favourite heya, one Christmas Day, as it happened, and absolutely everyone ended up truly sloshed. Me included. But the rationale was that once a year this could happen.

FWIW,

Orion

[Millwood]

The vast majority of Japanese are Lactose Intolerant - they can't properly digest the lactose in milk, and consuming very much of it cause various digestive symptoms.

[JAB]

Kofuji - Are you a falconer?

Milk is not really very good for adults to ingest. Not that beer is, but it has less "unnatural" stuff in it. Plus it tastes better!!

[ilovesumo]

Not a silly question at all. (so guys, be nice please...)

Well, Mitoizumi wrote in his book that he always drank liters of milk a day (since he was a kid, and that is the reason he believes he grew up that big), but at his blog you can see pix with beer glasses as well. ;-)

Many Rikishi drink proteine shakes...kinda like milk but stronger.

Edited December 21, 2008 by ilovesumo

[Kofuji]

Kofuji - Are you a falconer?

No, I just live in a place with lots of falconers. I was taking pictures of some being trained in the desert and one of the falconers let me have my picture taken with his ...

[Nanami]

[....But where on earth did you get the crazy idea that beer is a regular part of the sumo diet? ...

FWIW,

Orion

In my experience, whether it is accurate or not, the idea that beer is a regular part of the sumo diet, is often put forth as the actual practice in "informational" TV shows, articles, etc.. about sumo (at least in the US). I have watched several programs, including a 2008 National Geographic special, that spoke of beer as a regular part of the sumo diet. If it is not accurate, then these types of programs are much to blame for spreading the "myth."

[JAB]

Nanami -

So what is the "truth?"

Beautiful bird! The Arabs are still very much interested in Falconry eh? Probably some of the only people that can afford the time and money! What kind are you holding?

Jake

[_the_mind_]

where are the other learned members of this forum who might have more insight into this? since there appears to be disparity

[sekihiryu]

[....But where on earth did you get the crazy idea that beer is a regular part of the sumo diet? ...

FWIW,

Orion

In my experience, whether it is accurate or not, the idea that beer is a regular part of the sumo diet, is often put forth as the actual practice in "informational" TV shows, articles, etc.. about sumo (at least in the US). I have watched several programs, including a 2008 National Geographic special, that spoke of beer as a regular part of the sumo diet. If it is not accurate, then these types of programs are much to blame for spreading the "myth."

One memory etched in my mind was at Sadogatake Beya at the Osaka Basho HQ, while I was watching morning keiko. Truck arrived and dropped off at least a dozen crates of beer, - thats 144 bottles of beer and then some.

The truck then took away many empty crates.

A lot of beer was being consumed at that beya.

Milk? nasty stuff, I used to drink it until I became lactose intolerant in my mid 20's, researched about it and found out what horrible thing it really is. I hate the propaganda shoved done our throats saying what a wonder food it is. Milk must have a very powerful lobby

http://www.notmilk.com/

[Orion]

[....But where on earth did you get the crazy idea that beer is a regular part of the sumo diet? ...

FWIW,

Orion

In my experience, whether it is accurate or not, the idea that beer is a regular part of the sumo diet, is often put forth as the actual practice in "informational" TV shows, articles, etc.. about sumo (at least in the US). I have watched several programs, including a 2008 National Geographic special, that spoke of beer as a regular part of the sumo diet. If it is not accurate, then these types of programs are much to blame for spreading the "myth."

Indeed they are. It makes much better viewing than encouraging boys to stuff down bowl after blowl of rice, though this can be seen sometimes on Japanese TV, which has progams made by more knoweldgeable people.

Orion

[Orion]

One memory etched in my mind was at Sadogatake Beya at the Osaka Basho HQ, while I was watching morning keiko. Truck arrived and dropped off at least a dozen crates of beer, - thats 144 bottles of beer and then some.

The truck then took away many empty crates.

A lot of beer was being consumed at that beya.

That I can believe. I've eaten in the Tokyo heya at the (old) master's invitation. A lot of beer was regularly consumed there, and at many other heya I've been in. But as I said earlier, it was not part of the regular diet of the teenage apprentices -- beer is more expensive than rice, for one thing; and for another, it doesn't put on the right kind of weight that is needed at the beginning of forming the sumo body. It was the sekitori and the oyakata who were putting the beer away in generous quantities -- plus the guests (who, if in a conducted group, normally paid 10,000 yen for the privilege of having chanko with the top men after keiko; or, if regular members of the heya koenkai, would already be paying a hefty annual fee and would get cushions to watch a good keiko session and post-keiko lunch as part of the payback).

In this and other matters, those of use who actually live here among the sumo-beya are fighting a constant battle against the outside journalists and film-makers who want to come in, get a story, and go home. And in their world, false information like the 'beer as sumo diet' is something they can take as a given, copy it in, and go on to worry about other things like lighting and deadlines.

Orion, aka Doreen the Queen (just back from four hours of rehearsals as a Shakespearean queen, well-skill'd in curses)

[JAB]

I am no expert, but white rice and beer are pretty much going to have the same affect on the body. Empty calories basically from sugar. So what is the process of forming a "Sumo body"? Obviously not just throwing on adipose weight I assume!?

Thanks

Jake

[Kotoviki]

In my experience every heya I went to consumed a lot of beer at lunch & dinner... younger guys drank mugi tea...

I never saw anyone drink milk at a meal.

My rikishi friends love beer! It is surely a part of Sumo...

I have read that Kotooshu & Hakuho have both drank a lot of milk at different times, Kotooshu when he was really trying to put on weight I read he was into a lot of milk.

However...never saw anyone actually drinking it! :)

From the experience of hanging out with friends I can say that I don't know any rikishi who are legal age who don't like drinking and beer especially.

On a typical night out Tochinoshin is proud to drink at least 20 big mugs of beer......

On another note when Hakurozan tried to make a younger boy (16) drink beer in front of me he refused. He said "I can't!" I was proud of him! :)

As a teacher of boys his age I am happy to see one refuse.. since I know lots of my students are sneaking beers.. (In a state of confusion...)

[Washuyama]

Not that it has any real bearing on this conersation, but, back in the mid-70s, Dewanoumi-beya came out to the Air Force Base my father was stationed at and played a softball game against the base team. It was a normal game with the exception of when the sumotori reached a base, they had to drink a can of beer before proceeding to the next base. A home run meant 4 beers. It was fun to watch and after a few innings, nobody cared what the score was...

[JAB]

Thats great!!

Thanks!

[Orion]

Not that it has any real bearing on this conversation, but, back in the mid-70s, Dewanoumi-beya came out to the Air Force Base my father was stationed at and played a softball game against the base team. It was a normal game with the exception of when the sumotori reached a base, they had to drink a can of beer before proceeding to the next base. A home run meant 4 beers. It was fun to watch and after a few innings, nobody cared what the score was...

Again, a special occasion with everybody having fun -- not part of the daily regimen, by any means. Nice recollection! (Is that why you chose "Washuyama" as your nickname?

Orion

[Washuyama]

Not that it has any real bearing on this conversation, but, back in the mid-70s, Dewanoumi-beya came out to the Air Force Base my father was stationed at and played a softball game against the base team. It was a normal game with the exception of when the sumotori reached a base, they had to drink a can of beer before proceeding to the next base. A home run meant 4 beers. It was fun to watch and after a few innings, nobody cared what the score was...

Again, a special occasion with everybody having fun -- not part of the daily regimen, by any means. Nice recollection! (Is that why you chose "Washuyama" as your nickname?

Orion

One of the reasons... He was one of my favorites mostly because of his small size. He had to give max effort every bout to be competitive.

[Orion]

One of the reasons... He was one of my favorites mostly because of his small size. He had to give max effort every bout to be competitive.

Me too. His cocky entrance in the hanamichi (which in those Kuramae days was open to everyone) remains in my mind. One of my most treasured (and framed) pictures is of him and me on the steps of Dewanoumi-beya, taken by an Australian journalist on one of my first "journalist assistance" jobs. Now that Inagawa oyakata has retired, the master is my oldest acquaintance in Dewanoumi; it came as quite a shock to realise that I have known all the other oyakata since their debuts. And if you were to meet the current Dewanoumi in the street, walking along in his decent overcoat, you would just assume he was the company chief of a small company -- which in a sense, he is.

Orion

[Gusoyama]

Again, a special occasion with everybody having fun -- not part of the daily regimen, by any means. Nice recollection! (Is that why you chose "Washuyama" as your nickname?

Again, it may not be part of the prescribed "diet", but as ilovetochinoshin has indicated, and many many many rikishi interviews(I could find dozens from Miyabiyama alone) indicate, rikishi seem to enjoy beer quite a bit.

[Washuyama]

...many many rikishi interviews(I could find dozens from Miyabiyama alone) indicate, rikishi seem to enjoy beer quite a bit.

Of course the same thing cou be said about most large groups of men in their early/mid 20s (or 30s or 40s...) (Singing drunk...)

[Peeter]

Want to pee, drink beer. Want to become strong, drink much milk when You are yong - elder You are, organism hasn't availability to disintegrate milk proteine.

HAPPY NEW BEER!

[Mark Buckton]

Boddingtons Bitter - nothing like it and no brand of milk comes close

The cream of Manchester

Edited December 31, 2008 by Mark Buckton

[Gusoyama]

Of course the same thing cou be said about most large groups of men in their early/mid 20s (or 30s or 40s...) (Singing drunk...)

precisely.(says the man with 10 gallons of homebrew in his fridge)