Rikshi Talk Day 8 2008 Kyushu Basho

[Jonosuke]

Takamisakari (6-2) over Chiyohakuho by oshidashi, 16.2 seconds

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(Getting himself turned around but still winning his sixth)

"I had a bad feeling when it happened but I was able to stay in pretty good after I started mightily struggling around. If I can get him down, it really doesn't matter how. I am moving so well, it's so incredible."

Masatsukasa (2-6) losing to Tosanoumi by oshidashi, 5.1 seconds

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(Losing yet another bout after finding a ray of light yesterday by beating Kitataiki after losing five straight. Injuring his right shoulder on Day 2 against Tamanoshima. Losing his son, Koshin, just prior to the Natsu Basho this year and renaming himself as Masatsuka Koshin from Aki Basho but suffering Makekoshi with 5 win - 10 loss record last basho.)

"Other than my injury, I am feeling a little bit better. I can't do anything about my injury anyway now."

"I think the best thing for my son is to win and have my name called out on the dohyo. I feel Koshin is living inside of me. I keep telling myself, I have to get going right now, right here."

Kyokutenho (5-3) over Miyabiyama by sukuinage,18.0 seconds

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(Giving Miyabiyama his first loss)

"You know he is so heavy so I just used his momentum. At least I think I had done a good job."

Miyabiyama (7-1) losing to Kyokutenho

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(Feeling nervous over getting his Kachikoshi and losing by a sukinage at the dohyo edge to suffer his first loss this basho)

"I just couldn't remain calm when he started executing the throw. I was only thinking to run him out which turned out to be a big mistake. I should have gotten him out of balance before I started moving forward."

"I guess it really doesn't matter how many years you have been doing this. When it comes to the day of Kachikoshi, you will get all tensed up."

(As a former ozeki, hoping to win a yusho once in his career)

"Well unless you get Kachikoshi, there is no point in talking about it, right? So I want to get the kachikoshi as soon as possible to stay close so we can keep the basho exciting and interesting to the very end."

Futenho (1-7) over Aminishiki by yoritaoshi by 13.9 seconds

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(Finally getting his first win this basho)

"It's been really so long. Even while waiting under the dohyo, I kept thinking how I should go or not to go. I consider it's huge being able to beat Aminishiki-zeki who has been doing so well this basho. just hope this will be the trigger I needed to get going."

Toyonoshima (5-3) losing to Ama by uwate-dashinage, 29.4 seconds

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(Wanting so desperately to beat Ama and had a chance but thrown out by a dashinage and showing so much regret after the loss.)

"We all know we should have more Japanese ozeki. For that I felt I didn't want him to go up there first."

Ama (6-2) over Toyonoshima

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(Not expecting Tsuppari at the start and backtracked)

"I tried to go after his mawashi so I was really surprised as it was the first time he did to me. So I did panic a bit."

(Worthy efforts for earning his fourth straight win)

"I think I am getting more calm. I am also regaining my strength now. So we've got one more week to go now."

Musashigawa oyakata (former Yokozuna Mienoumi), chairman of the Kyokai

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(On Ama)

"If he can get into a 'move-forward' sumo then I believe he can really keep going but he appears to be trying to go with more deliberate sumo."

Isegahama oyakata (former Yokozuna Asahifuji), Ama's shisho

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(On seeing Ama failing his shikiri more often and needed to have several attempts to clear the tachiai.)

"I think it's the pressure. If he starts accumulating more win, I have no doubt he regains his self-confidence."

Baruto (6-2) over Kotooshu by uwatenage, 7.3 seconds

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(Downing Kotooshu to earn his sixth win)

"I was a bit tense today. You know he is an ozeki after all."

(On facing the top rank rikishi in the final half)

"I will be looking forward to facing them. See what happens."

Kotooshu (3-5) losing to Baruto

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(Suffering his fifth loss and refusing to answer any questions posed by reporters.)

".............."

Sadogatake oyakata (former Sekiwake Kotonowaka), Kotooshu's shisho

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(Asked if Kotooshu would be going on kyujo.)

"We talked about it but he would be at least coming back tomorrow. He not only has a left arm injury but is now suffering from a groin injury."

Chiyotaikai (6-2) over Tochinoshin by tsukidashi, 5.5 seconds

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(Winning his fifth straight)

"After losing two straight, I really thought hard about what I was doing wrong then I got myself really focused on my sumo. It's all contributing to my wins now."

Kisenosato (6-2) losing to Hakuho by sotogake, 10.1 seconds

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(Losing decisively to Hakuho)

"I couldn't even put out a decent sumo. Everything from the start to the end, there wasn't absolutely anything good about it at all."

Hakuho (7-1) over Kisenosato

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"I knew I lost to him the last basho but I stepped out hard so everything turned out well."

(Despite being told he has not been showing his usual solid sumo but at the mid-way mark, still standing at the top with 1 loss along with Miyabiyama)

"Well it's what everyone including myself should be expecting, right?"

(And his now daily habitual comment we all are expecting now.)

"It's all in flow, you know. All flow."

(Asked if he was revving up his engine now)

"It's been going at full throttle since Day 2."

Yusho Race Board

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Makuuchi:

One loss - Hakuho, Miyabiyama

Two losses - Chiyotaikai, Ama, Baruto, Kisenosato, Dejima, Kokkai, Yoshikaze, Takamisakari, Tosanoumi

Juryo:

No loss - Shotenro

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The Kyokai announced three Shusse rikishi including one return rikishi to be entered on the Hatsu Basho banzuke.

New rikishi are Hikosaka (from Aichi, Shikoroyama Beya) and Yoshida (from Ishikawa, Arashio Beya) and one return rikishi, HIgashi (from Kagoshima, Shikoroyama Beya, 2006 Natsu Basho dohyo debut).

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The rikishi and toshiyori will see no increase in their annual salary for eighth straight year. The yokozuna's base monthly salary will remain at 2.82 Million Yen.

"We are all in tough economical conditions. It means let us endure for a while and do our best together," Kokonoe oyakata, Kyokai's PR Director said. "Anyway I will be promising them we will raise it if we see them working harder and doing more to show their best."

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The Kyokai is scheduling a two hour seminar to be attended by all members of the Kyokai including all rikishi and gyoji on December 26 at the Ryogoku Kokugikan to discuss proper conduct on the dohyo and on what is expected on them in daily living at the heya. "I will be planning to show a video for them," Musashigawa oyakata said. It's likely they will be discussing the current controversy concerning Yaocho sumo.

Separately the Kyokai announced former Yokozuna Taiho, Kouki Naya, will be leaving his post of the Sumo Museum Director as of the end of the year due to health reasons. However certain officials indicated his leaving the position was related to the dismissal of Russian rikishi, his former recruit Roho and his brother Hakurozan.

Kokonoe oyakata added they have not determined his replacement yet.

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After their first Kyokai Directors meeting including the newly appointed external directors held in Fukoka on November 16, the chairman of the Kyokai, Musashigawa oyakata (former Yokozuna Mienoumi) told reporters that they would enforce severe penalties for those who committed so-called "unmotivated sumo".

In the meeting, a subject of on-going Yaocho reporting by the media was raised and an external director, Hiroyoshi Murayama (former Tokyo Upper Court Chief Prosecutor), 71, indicated he presented his opinion to the other directors. "We have been faced with a condition where yaocho reports have become rampant and could easily be misinterpreted by the general public. I offered my opinion on how we could remedy the problems," Murayama said.

"We want to make it clear that we will be vigorously responding to what is often called Yaocho or 'unmotivated sumo' and we will endeavor to undertake far stricter enforcement on them," Musashigwa oyakata said. "Generally I believe we had an extremely robust meeting with our new external directors offering us valuable suggestions and opinion".

"If we have agreed to have a place where we can discuss what the public is talking about then I feel my work here is being fulfilled. I want to convey to the rikishi what is expected of them as far as their daily life is concerned from a perspective of educator," said Shigeru Ito, 77, Professor Emeritus of Tokyo University. "What is important is that by having three external members to the board, we can bridge the worlds of rikishi and spectators together. We simply offered them our own perspective based on common sense."

Former Chief Director General of Japan National Police Agency, Jun Yoshino, 73, said, "I don't believe there is no other non-profit foundation with so much active exchange of opinion in their directors meeting. Personally I was really surprised by vigor."

The Kyokai brought in three external members to their board of directors after a series of scandals involving their rikishi and oyakata to bring about more transparency to their organization.

The Kyokai has a standard policy of dismissal and suspension for "intentional unmotivated sumo" originally set in 1972. Some external directors specifically asked the Kyokai to enpower the Audit Committee to oversee the operation but the chairman declined to introduce new penalties to the current Kyokai By-laws. The Kyokai is currently contemplating to broach a subject of unmotivated sumo at their seminar for all rikishi to be held in December.

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Takasago Beya's Supreme rank Tokoyama Tokoju, 65, will be retiring as of this basho and it will be his last basho to do the oicho for the heya's sekitori this basho. When Asashoryu dropped by to their heya on November 14, he asked Tokoju to do his hair specially. "The yokozuna told me he would not end his career like this. He asked me to watch the Hatsu Basho as he would win the yusho for me," Tokoju said.

[shimodahito]

wow! so many extras today. as always, TOTEMO ARIGATO!!! rikishi talk is my favorite thread during the basho.

[HenryK]

Thank you as always.

[Sashohitowa]

Toyonoshima (5-3) losing to Ama by uwate-dashinage, 29.4 seconds

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(Wanting so desperately to beat Ama and had a chance but thrown out by a dashinage and showing so much regret after the loss.)

"We all know we should have more Japanese ozeki. For that I felt I didn't want him to go up there first."

This one brings -1 point for Toyonoshima in my book.

;-)

[Shomishuu]

The rikishi and toshiyori will see no increase in their annual salary for eighth straight year. The yokozuna's base monthly salary will remain at 2.82 Million Yen.

"We are all in tough economical conditions. It means let us endure for a while and do our best together," Kokonoe oyakata, Kyokai's PR Director said. "Anyway I will be promising them we will raise it if we see them working harder and doing more to show their best."

A few assumptions (safe or not?):

1. Kokonoe's "working harder" reference is about the rikishi, not the toshiyori.

2. "Working harder" is mostly related to the unmotivated sumo discussion that followed.

;-) ;-) :-(

Edited November 17, 2008 by Shomishuu

[skycruiser]

Toyonoshima (5-3) losing to Ama by uwate-dashinage, 29.4 seconds

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(Wanting so desperately to beat Ama and had a chance but thrown out by a dashinage and showing so much regret after the loss.)

"We all know we should have more Japanese ozeki. For that I felt I didn't want him to go up there first."

This one brings -1 point for Toyonoshima in my book.

;-)

Kotoshogiku is the other rikishi that really hate losing to Ama and always shows his frustration.

They have not figured him out, yet!

Patrick aka Chiyonotora

[Andreas]

I dont think that Toyonoshima said this because Ama is a foreigner, its just a personal rivalry (between Ama, Kisenosato, Kotoshogiku and him, they all came up at the same time) and Toyonoshima wants to become ozeki first. Hed probably have said something similar if it was Kotoshogiku on the ozeki run. The message is not that foreigners shouldnt become ozeki, but that he himself wanted to gambarize some more...

[Asashosakari]

Nothing at all wrong with Toyonoshima wanting Japanese to dominate their own national sport.

I'm not sure I'd go that far, but it's not how I was reading the quote anyway. Taking it together with the other quotes from a couple of days ago - I don't think he's saying that he would like Ama to be denied promotion even if he's deserving (which seems to be how Sashohitowa read it), just that he wants himself and other Japanese up'n'comers to do well enough that Ama in fact isn't deserving of promotion yet, because he lost too many bouts against them. I'm sure nationality plays some role, but simple competitive pride probably is at least as much of a factor and IMO more so.

In a way it's the flipside of the great "yaocho unmotivated sumo" topic - if it's unfair to not go all out when you have no particular benefit from winning, is it also unfair to give extraordinary effort against Ama (or Asashoryu, or Takamisakari...) because you have an additional emotional stake in winning that bout? Just another situation where motivation simply can't be easily separated from the purely physical aspects of doing sumo.

Edited November 17, 2008 by Asashosakari

[Jonosuke]

Definitely there are well gifted rikishi either physically or with natural ability like Asashoryu and Hakuho. From a perspective of average size rikishi, Kotooshu, Kaio and Kotomitsuki all have their size to go with certain skills.

When we see Kotooshu for instance we can see perhaps he was destined to be an ozeki because of his size alone. Size is not something an average rikishi can overcome easily. In this Baruto can be considered to be destined to be an ozeki some day.

When other rikishi aspiring to be ozeki, they see they too can aspire to be an ozeki if Ama can. Ama overcame the size with his sheer devotion, determination and dedication to his craft. Others see Ama and wonder whey they cannot do the same. Obviously they all know Ama paid his dues by working out longer and harder than just about anyone else at his level.

Perhaps Kisenosato or Kotoshogiku may be more physically blessed yet it is Ama who is on the verge of fulfilling his dream. I have no doubt Toyonoshima is more motivated by seeing Ama as he himself cannot overwhelm his opponent with his size. He sees other Japanese rikishi in their age more physically gifted but still not reaching the level Ama has already achieved and wants them to try as harder at least for the people back home supporting them through.

I personally think it will be great to see Ama promoted to ozeki not just for Ama who is well deserving the title but also for other Japanese born rikishi as it should motivate them more to aim for the same and more rikishi competing hard in the top level, more interesting for all of us. Right now as far as the ozeki group is concerned, it's all for dogs.

[Doitsuyama]

I personally think it will be great to see Ama promoted to ozeki not just for Ama who is well deserving the title

Let's just say that Ama already has a strength rating which is higher than the best sekiwake in history. Either he will become ozeki eventually or go down as the best sekiwake ever (at least by my ratings).

[kaiguma]

Ama already has a strength rating which is higher than the best sekiwake in history. Either he will become ozeki eventually or go down as the best sekiwake ever (at least by my ratings).

Since that is obviously careeer-high Sekiwake and from 2005, how difficult is it to include the Sekiwake-high strength rating of future Yokozuna and Ozeki? In other words, how does Ama measure up now when compared to Chiyonofuji in his final basho as a Sekiwake? And more immediately, how does he compare to Kotomitsuki, both in the here and now and Mickey's last Sekiwake basho?

Thanks for putting numbers to something I have known all along! It can really help us understand the whys and whatfors.

[Doitsuyama]

Ama already has a strength rating which is higher than the best sekiwake in history. Either he will become ozeki eventually or go down as the best sekiwake ever (at least by my ratings).

Since that is obviously career-high Sekiwake and from 2005, how difficult is it to include the Sekiwake-high strength rating of future Yokozuna and Ozeki? In other words, how does Ama measure up now when compared to Chiyonofuji in his final basho as a Sekiwake? And more immediately, how does he compare to Kotomitsuki, both in the here and now and Mickey's last Sekiwake basho?

Thanks for putting numbers to something I have known all along! It can really help us understand the whys and whatfors.

I feel sekiwake-high strength ratings from future ozeki and yokozuna don't tell much - especially the rating after the final basho as sekiwake practically has no meaning in this context because for all intents and purposes that's the first ozeki rating. Anyway, Chiyonofuji's ascent to ozeki was too quick and sudden to have a very high rating before the final sekiwake basho, it was "only" 2331, going to 2432 after the 14-1.

Compared to Kotomitsuki right now Ama is leading 2412 to 2387, both were pretty similar throughout 2008. Before his last sekiwake basho Kotomitsuki was 2376, going to 2430 with the 13-2 - and this is his career high rating as he was steadily sinking after that down to 2337 after Natsu 2008, having the first rating rise as ozeki after Nagoya and another rise after Aki.

[Kimyouzan]

No more rikishi speak this basho? Haven't had any posted the last couple days. I really enjoy reading them and thanks for posting them Jonosuke!

[Doitsuyama]

No more rikishi speak this basho? Haven't had any posted the last couple days. I really enjoy reading them and thanks for posting them Jonosuke!

Well, day 9 is there and it's too early for 10 yet. Oh yes, and thanks to Jonosuke from me too!