Mata unmatta

[Shomishuu]

More tachiai monku monku:

I watched slo-mo hi-res replays of the Day 2 Chiyotaikai-Aminishiki tilt and I still don't get why Chief Shimpan Hanaregoma stopped the match after the first tachiai. Chiyotaikai obviously had both hands down at the start and Aminishiki's 'trailing' hand (left) clearly scraped the dohyo on his way up. The gyoji thought it was a good start and let it go, and both rikishi also were completely into the match, neither of them hesitating nor questioning anything.

Sure, Chiyotaikai got the jump on Aminishiki, but isn't that job 1 at the tachiai anyway? Happens all the time. And in fact, he also did it on the second try, leaping forward before Aminishiki's trailing hand went down. The second go was nearly a carbon copy of the first, yet they let that one go.

I realize it's easy to nitpick when you can replay things at your leisure, but this has become such a pattern I'm not sure what exactly they're looking for. It seems at this point that both rikishi and gyoji are still confused. In Kyushu especially, fans are finding more and more reasons to look away from sumo, and this so-called 'reform' movement isn't helping.

Arrrgh! (Pulling hair...) (Pulling hair...) (Pulling hair...)

[Otokonoyama]

Reminds me of the Chiyotaikai taichiai kerfuffle last basho, which, if anything, was Taikai gamesmanship that had the explicit backing of the judges.

[JAB]

What is the "reform" movement?

Thanks

Jake

[kaiguma]

this should lead you in the right direction. Controversy over the "reform" movement is a holdover from Aki Basho.

Still some unfortunate confusion about false starts... I really think it is mainly on the shimpan's side, or maybe judging committee as a whole. They obviously realized it wasn't working last basho so they are trying to scale it back somewhat but that is just creating more limbo and seemingly vague guidelines, or at least muddy execution. I have noticed though that due to last basho's efforts, most rikishi are really paying a lot more attention to four on the floor than they did before.

And to play devil's advocate, the expression on the shimpan's face was pretty disdainful. In some of the replays it looked like Aminishiki was trying to cheat the matta by hiding his left hand behind his leg when it dropped down so I'm not really convinced that it touched at all. Perceiving that kind of tricky "pushing the rule" combined with a henka could be what set him off.

Edited November 11, 2008 by kaiguma

[JAB]

Thanks Kaiguma.

Would it not be appropriate to approach this much like hockey, where both opponents have to touch the ice with their stick before the ref drops the puck? I can see where just grazing the floor with your hand could possibly give one a bit of an advantage in terms of momentum (he never stops moving completely). Just make them touch both to the ground, and the ref calls for the start.

Just an idea.

Jake

[Shomishuu]

And to play devil's advocate, the expression on the shimpan's face was pretty disdainful. In some of the replays it looked like Aminishiki was trying to cheat the matta by hiding his left hand behind his leg when it dropped down so I'm not really convinced that it touched at all. Perceiving that kind of tricky "pushing the rule" combined with a henka could be what set him off.

That's a possibility, although from the replays I'm convinced it did touch. Anyway, what's the point of stopping a match when the gyoji has let it go and both rikishi are already going at it full tilt? I'll answer my own question: None. To teach Aminishiki a lesson? Fat chance of that.

If shimpan feel the need to show disdain toward a tricky tachiai, they're about 60 years late. It's very clear by now that - although the rules provide for it - they're never going to disqualify a rikishi for excessive matta. OK, I can live with that. But as long as that's the way it is, then accept the tachiai for what it is: a somewhat inscrutable, yet aesthetic display of imperfection that makes sumo the beguiling addiction that it is (sorry, got a little carried away there (Proverbial apple...) (Thinking in depth...)). In other words, if you've not gotten it right in 60 years, why keep trying to micromanamge the unmanageable?

More tachiai insights can be found in the current issue of SFM here. Try Editor Chris Gould's comprehensive article on 'Tachiai Shenanigans,' or the tail end of the Aki Basho Summary for the more facile version.

[Sasanishiki]

Thanks Kaiguma.

Would it not be appropriate to approach this much like hockey, where both opponents have to touch the ice with their stick before the ref drops the puck? I can see where just grazing the floor with your hand could possibly give one a bit of an advantage in terms of momentum (he never stops moving completely). Just make them touch both to the ground, and the ref calls for the start.

Just an idea.

Jake

That is the way it is supposed to be done in amateur sumo. In reality it is only done like that in international amateur sumo, because in high-level amateur bouts in Japan they allow this type of ozumo start. This causes issues when Japanese refs and Japanese athletes are competing internationally because they often let the Japanese athlete "go" while teh non-Japanese athlete is left waiting a split second before they react.

In ozumo the idea is that the rikishi should be able to synchronise themselves and start fairly. This has gotten sloppy at times and so they bring in these stricter interpretations of matta but then try to impose them on rikishi who have for the most part not done it 'properly' all of teh time.

[JAB]

Interesting. I have always wondered if there were problems with the Tachiai.

Thanks

jake

[Asashosakari]

More tachiai monku monku:

I watched slo-mo hi-res replays of the Day 2 Chiyotaikai-Aminishiki tilt and I still don't get why Chief Shimpan Hanaregoma stopped the match after the first tachiai. Chiyotaikai obviously had both hands down at the start and Aminishiki's 'trailing' hand (left) clearly scraped the dohyo on his way up. The gyoji thought it was a good start and let it go, and both rikishi also were completely into the match, neither of them hesitating nor questioning anything.

And today (again featuring Taikai, coincidentally enough) was the exact opposite, with a clearly matta'ed tachiai that neither rikishi had any intention of turning into a bout but the gyoji let it go anyway. Thank goodness for the shimpan interference this time - nice to see that after one and a half basho we've finally had one of those wretched situations that I was hoping the new tachiai enforcement would address. So now it's at least not a totally useless change anymore. ;-)

Seriously though, after the first couple of days had been pretty bad again (makuuchi moreso than juryo), they've been a lot more reasonable in their enforcement the last few days, I've thought.

[kaiguma]

Yeah they seem to be passing on knuckle-grazers, which obviously makes things much smoother.

[Shomishuu]

Yeah they seem to be passing on knuckle-grazers, which obviously makes things much smoother.

GMTA! (Great minds think alike)...I made the same note this morning as I watched the recording. But there's the rub. Passing on knuckle-grazers does smooth things out, much more fan-friendly; but as time goes by, first the knuckle, then the fingernail, then a few millimeters, then a centimeter. Next thing you know, we're partying like it's 2007. ;-)