Asashouryu just got screwed

[Manekineko]

Takanonami. It was before my time, though, so I'm just recalling what I read on the ML.

[Kirinoumi]

I don't think he stopped the bout, just objected to the gyoji's ruling once the bout was over.

Hmm. I was watching the bout, but now I'm starting to question my memory, and I think you might be right. He may have just raised his hand after the bout for a mono-ii. In any case, the question remains. If a shinpan or rikishi raises his hand during a bout, is the gyoji obligated to stop the bout, or should the bout be played out and then the verdict analyzed?

Edited September 22, 2008 by Kirinoumi

[Sasanishiki]

I reckon I could slide a sheet of paper under there, it's very close.

I think you've hit the nail on the head here, but not in the way you would hope (or want the verdict to go). If you come up with this idea after looking at countless replays and still photos, analysed over several hours, then Asa lost the bout. The decisions in sumo are made with the naked eye based on the decision of a small number sitting close at hand. From the shimpan's point of view he saw a foot looking like it touched the surface, particularly given that the part 'touching' was on the inside of Asa's foot and thus slightly further away from (potentially partly obscured) from the shimpan. In cases like this, I think it is perfectly fair to award a loss as it is well within the limits of acceptable human error and there is no incompetence apparent.

I never understood the bizarre shinpan system of sumo, the 'coaches' of the wrestlers are the the judges? People with bias and questionable motives......

Except that they are expected to be beyond reproach by embodying the ideals of sumo (such as honour and fairplay).

[Asashosakari]

If you come up with this idea after looking at countless replays and still photos, analysed over several hours, then Asa lost the bout.

Not to mention that if the Yokozuna hadn't allowed himself to be put into that situation by freakin' Toyonoshima, we wouldn't even be talking about this. Want to uphold the competitive expectations of your rank? Don't rely on hair's width decisions to go in your favour.

[paolo]

If you come up with this idea after looking at countless replays and still photos, analysed over several hours, then Asa lost the bout.

Not to mention that if the Yokozuna hadn't allowed himself to be put into that situation by freakin' Toyonoshima, we wouldn't even be talking about this. Want to uphold the competitive expectations of your rank? Don't rely on hair's width decisions to go in your favour.

As far as Asashoryu's current shape is concerned, you are perfectly right. He should have never let himself enter that situation, and this shows that his sumo is weak in this moment. But regarding the main point, a win is a win and a loss is a loss, so wouldn't a Yokozuna deserve a mono-ii in such an unclear and debatable situation ? You call the mono-ii, you discuss, you examine the slow motion: then if you have doubts torinaoshi; if nothing shows that your decision is wrong you hold it. Why not ? We have seen so many mono-ii called for cases that were clearer (and some wrong final decisions, too, but this is another story).

[Sakana]

Aaaah, I forgot to add yesterday that those pictures from Yahoo Japan were modified by me to show the two marks (I have added the 2 circles and the letters A & B) !! I'm deeply sorry if you think those are real pictures from Yahoo... (Detective...)

The "A" is to help to place us in space and the "B" is the footprint (because, we were disgreeing about the angle of the pictures or else ; I forgot to put the other pictures put by Gacktoh and me on page 2).

Edited September 22, 2008 by Sakana

[Treblemaker]

Well, at this stage it looks to be academic. Fight just over. Ama out-foxed, out-smarted and out-moved Asa. Brilliant strategy, Asa never saw it coming.

Heel in or out - old news... today's result was that a better man beat one who just wasn't that sharp or aware.

[Harry]

Well, at this stage it looks to be academic. Fight just over. Ama out-foxed, out-smarted and out-moved Asa. Brilliant strategy, Asa never saw it coming.

Heel in or out - old news... today's result was that a better man beat one who just wasn't that sharp or aware.

Though I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that Ama barely brushed his right hand on the clay while Asa very purposefully knocked both sets of knuckles on the dohyo. I thought Asa might have been waiting for a matta and while he was matte he let Ama get ushiro and then Asa's tei was okuridashi'd out of the ring... Nothing is going his way this basho.

A bead of sweat rolled off Asa's forehead into the corner of his eye and down. It was sweat but it sure looked like a tear for a moment until I 'rewound' the PVR.

[Blue_Wolf]

http://www.sumotalk.com/comments.htm

[Kintamayama]

Though I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that Ama barely brushed his right hand on the clay while Asa very purposefully knocked both sets of knuckles on the dohyo. I thought Asa might have been waiting for a matta and while he was matte

"Were my opponent's hands touching the ground? I thought it was a matta..", said Asashouryuu. In contrast to yesterday, he was very quiet back in the shitakubeya today after the match. It seems like at least 3 of his losses are clouded with doubt, as are two of his wins.

That's Asa..

[Sashohitowa]

As only still pictures are commented here, I must agree that Asashoryu's step out seems questionable.

But when I watch the video, I have absolutely no doubts that he stepped out. If you follow the whole movement of his foot (and his whole body), there is no question about it. His heel bounced of the soil outside of the ring - in a moment, when most of his weight was on his right leg.

Either Asashoryu touched, or he possesses quite powerful toes.

[Jakusotsu]

His heel bounced of the soil outside of the ring - in a moment, when most of his weight was on his right leg.

Either Asashoryu touched, or he possesses quite powerful toes.

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense. Try lifting your heel from a standing position - where do you apply the pressure: toes or heel?

[Kuroyama]

http://www.sumotalk.com/comments.htm

Tsk tsk. (Sign of disapproval...)

It's that kind of thing that sent me from Sumotalk to here in the first place, in a situation where it made even less sense.

His heel bounced of the soil outside of the ring - in a moment, when most of his weight was on his right leg.

Either Asashoryu touched, or he possesses quite powerful toes.

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense. Try lifting your heel from a standing position - where do you apply the pressure: toes or heel?

Um... your toes. So how does Sashohitowa's remark make no sense?

[Jakusotsu]

His heel bounced of the soil outside of the ring - in a moment, when most of his weight was on his right leg.

Either Asashoryu touched, or he possesses quite powerful toes.

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense. Try lifting your heel from a standing position - where do you apply the pressure: toes or heel?

Um... your toes. So how does Sashohitowa's remark make no sense?

Indeed. Reading again, it didn't make sense to miss the sense. Apologies. (Sign of disapproval...)

[Kuroyama]

I was giving the thumbs down to Blue_Wolf for posting the link rather than for the content of whatever was written over there.

It works either way.

My distaste for that site is well know, and even though I haven't read it, I'm guessing the article can be filed under either "allegations of yaocho" , "allegations of rascism" or "downright offensive libel".

You must be psychic! (Sign of disapproval...) It was the second one. The older occasion I had in mind was another one where Asa lost a close call, potentially costing him the yusho which he in fact lost that time. Pure racism, according to Sumotalk. The winner -- the clearly likely winner with that loss to Asa? Hakuho. This was during his tsunatori run, and a win would virtually guarantee him promotion to yokozuna.

So it was pure racism that could only result in... a second Mongolian yokozuna!

It was such a blatantly stupid thing to say that I couldn't stand to read that site again afterward.