Asashouryu just got screwed

[Kintamayama]

"There was a definite print in the sand. A loss is a loss, and it won't help 'that guy' to give me a dirty look. And don't stay stupid things like 'check the replay video !" said a visibly agitated Mihogaseki Oyakata who was the closest to the happening and the one that raised his hand. "I was in!", said Asashouryuu, on the dohyo to gyoji Kimura Shonosuke, who attested to that. Back at the shitakubeya, he flung his left elbow bandage to the floor , shouting "Daaa..!!". "I thought I won it, the bastard!" . Then, as he left the Kkan, the press asked him :"Were you in? Were you out?" "I haven't seen the video so I don't know, but I can't understand it.. I am really angry...", he said

Defiant and more defiant:

Edited September 21, 2008 by Kintamayama

[sekihiryu]

'A' and 'The'.... that "mark" is just "a" mark the cameraman found, I really don't think that particular mark has anything to do with Asa's heel, so its NOT case closed at all. That mark in question is more than 50% of the way towards the edge of the loose sand portion of the Janome, watch the replay closer, the position of Asa heel at the supposed point of contact is much closer to the Tawara than that mark is, funny angles perhaps? I have watched it under ultra slow motion and I still cant really see a definite point where he touched and made a imprint and his foot is not that big that he would make a mark all the way out there.I will post a screen shot in a bit showing Asa heel above perfectly smooth sand as he was pushing away from the edge

Have a look at Otokonoyamas linked photos and then that TV screen shot and make up your own mind.

Mihogaseki was fooled by the loose sand flying off the heel of Asashoryu while it was mere cm's of the surface.

I am not convinced.

[Gacktoh]

There was a footmark at the Janome (outside).

[Sakana]

Mmmmh, possibility : this mark is a zabuton's mark.

(But, the shinpan was so close I doubt he did a mistake)

[Harry]

Out of interest only, what derogatory pronoun was used for "bastard"? Kisama, onore, yarou? Enquiring minds want to know...

[Kintamayama]

Out of interest only, what derogatory pronoun was used for "bastard"? Kisama, onore, yarou? Enquiring minds want to know...

Kono yarou, of course. He always uses KY.

[Shomishuu]

Mmmmh, possibility : this mark is a zabuton's mark.

(But, the shinpan was so close I doubt he did a mistake)

And that's the crux of it. I watched slo-mo replays (42" flat) five or six times and still couldn't tell. For as little contact as was (or wasn't) made, the 'mark' was too deep, too long, and too wide to have been made by Asashoryu's heel, so the zabuton idea is probably a good one. But there was no one in the building that had a better view than Mihogaseki, and he made the call immediately, so you've got to go with that. If you want to say that the oyakata are after Asashoryu, that's another story. But as far as the bout itself goes, nothing improper happened, except for the gyoji allowing the bout to continue after Mihogaseki's hand was raised.

[Asojima]

Mmmmh, possibility : this mark is a zabuton's mark.

(But, the shinpan was so close I doubt he did a mistake)

For as little contact as was (or wasn't) made, the 'mark' was too deep, too long, and too wide to have been made by Asashoryu's heel, so the zabuton idea is probably a good one. But there was no one in the building that had a better view than Mihogaseki, and he made the call immediately, so you've got to go with that.

This pic shows the mark in place before any zabuton flew. It is in precisely the place where his heel would have hit. I make no judgements, but the zabuton idea is out.

Observe, below, the light streak in the sand to the right of his foot. The same reference point is visible in the above pic.

Edited September 21, 2008 by Asojima

[skycruiser]

This pic shows the mark in place before any zabuton flew. It is in precisely the place where his heel would have hit. I make no judgements, but the zabuton idea is out.

Observe, below, the light streak in the sand to the right of his foot. The same reference point is visible in the above pic.

I can not see the light streak (rice?) in the other picture.

http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/index.php?...ost&id=1784

I feel he deserved a mono-ii on this one, but his vulgar comment at the shimpan, is not

going to make it easier for him in the future.

His sumo is also very weak. He should speak with "his sumo" not his mouth. Just win the bouts, like he did a few years ago,

and the rest just take care of itself.

Unless he regroups very fast, shows some "hinkaku", (tough odds), I see Asa going intai soon.

Chiyonotora

[Fujisan]

3. Regardless, Asashoryu was outwrestled in that match, and if he was ever thinking about retiring, he should be thinking doubly hard about it now.

Things must be desperate if Asashoryus biggest fans are deserting him.

I wont desert you Asa.

[Asojima]

[i can not see the light streak (rice?) in the other picture.

http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/index.php?...ost&id=1784

An interesting point. Note the location of the Toku-dawara (thingie that sticks out from the tawara) in the above pic. The scuff mark in this pic is too close to the toku-dawara to be the mark in question. I think a red herring has been introduced. Any comments regarding the shape and size of the mark may be off key. (Carried away on a stretcher...)

Edited September 21, 2008 by Asojima

[Sakana]

Look at the crack on the dohy

Edited September 21, 2008 by Sakana

[Otokonoyama]

But there was no one in the building that had a better view than Mihogaseki, and he made the call immediately, so you've got to go with that. If you want to say that the oyakata are after Asashoryu, that's another story. But as far as the bout itself goes, nothing improper happened, except for the gyoji allowing the bout to continue after Mihogaseki's hand was raised.

He halfway raised his hand, started to lower it, stared at the spot in the sand for a second or two while the bout continued, and then put his hand all the way up and began waving to get the gyoji's attention...

[Sakana]

Just for fun*...

pictures from Yahoo Japan

My conclusion : no plane has landed on the dohy

[Chisaiyama]

I haven't seen it on my 42" HDTV yet but I just watched the video at ISF on my hi-res laptop screen and in the live action shots it definitely looks like he got a raw deal this time. As the action returns to the center, as they move away from the tawara I couldn't see the "mark".

I do agree that the "mark", whatever it was, could not have been caused by a zabuton as it was being examined before the results were clearly announced and the zabuton started flying.

We know that Mihogaseki is certainly not an Asa fan and it is possible that the "mark" was just there already (although I didn't see it) but it will certainly make good fodder for all the conspiracy theorists that occasionally lurk in our midst.

[sekihiryu]

But there was no one in the building that had a better view than Mihogaseki, and he made the call immediately, so you've got to go with that.

how good is this old mans eyesight?, if he blinked at the wrong time he would have missed it, the pre-existing sand shooting off Asa's heel in mid air could have fooled him. Otokonoyama said it nicely above in that he hestitated and wavered before raising his hand.

the flying sand from the bottom of his heel

the closest his heel gets to the surface.

one shot after his heel raise away from the surface

another angle after he moves away.

Where is the mark? .....indeed. Mihogaseki must have gotten hold of Roho's stash because he is seeing things. Should have been a replay.

"There was a definite print in the sand. A loss is a loss, and it won't help 'that guy' to give me a dirty look. And don't stay stupid things like 'check the replay video !" said a visibly agitated Mihogaseki Oyakata

There wasnt a definite mark CAUSED BY ASA in the sand, a dodgy call is a dodgy call, it wont help by never admitting you are fallible. We did the "stupid thing" and checked the replays you arrogant twit said a visibly agitated fan in Nara Japan.

I never understood the bizarre shinpan system of sumo, the 'coaches' of the wrestlers are the the judges? People with bias and questionable motives......

Asashouryu is like Mclaren in F1 at the moment - just can not please anyone and always at the wrong end of the stickk

[Fujisan]

"There was a definite print in the sand. A loss is a loss, and it won't help 'that guy' to give me a dirty look. And don't stay stupid things like 'check the replay video !" said a visibly agitated Mihogaseki Oyakata who was the closest to the happening and the one that raised his hand. "I was in!", said Asashouryuu, on the dohyo to gyoji Kimura Shonosuke, who attested to that. Back at the shitakubeya, he flung his left elbow bandage to the floor , shouting "Daaa..!!". "I thought I won it, the bastard!" . Then, as he left the Kkan, the press asked him :"Were you in? Were you out?" "I haven't seen the video so I don't know, but I can't understand it.. I am really angry...", he said

What no "You cannot be serious,the heel was in I tell you?"

[Kuroyama]

the closest his heel gets to the surface.

Closest? But it looks like he's touching here.

[sekihiryu]

I reckon I could slide a sheet of paper under there, it's very close.

[Treblemaker]

[i can not see the light streak (rice?) in the other picture.

http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/index.php?...ost&id=1784

An interesting point. Note the location of the Toku-dawara (thingie that sticks out from the tawara) in the above pic. The scuff mark in this pic is too close to the toku-dawara to be the mark in question. I think a red herring has been introduced. Any comments regarding the shape and size of the mark may be off key. (Detective...)

Just for fun*...

pictures from Yahoo Japan

My conclusion : no plane has landed on the dohy

[Kuroyama]

I reckon I could slide a sheet of paper under there, it's very close.

If if really was that close, you'd never be able to tell from that picture. It's from a video screen and enlarged to boot. The thickness of a piece of paper is smaller, much smaller, than the resolution.

[Peterao]

3. Regardless, Asashoryu was outwrestled in that match, and if he was ever thinking about retiring, he should be thinking doubly hard about it now.

Things must be desperate if Asashoryus biggest fans are deserting him.

I wont desert you Asa.

I don't think that I said that Asashoryu should retire. I said that if he was thinking about it, then that match should make him think even harder.

Personally, I think that he should fight as hard as possible to regain his previous aura as long as he is physically able to get on the dohyo.

[Kirinoumi]

1. Why is the shinpan stopping the match? I thought that was the gyoji's responsibility, and the shinpan's responsibility was to get together and talk things over if the gyoji's decision is incorrect?

I think it's pretty common for shimpan who noticed a rikishi brushing out of the ring to raise his hand, as an aid to gyoji more than anything else.

Actually, the rank and file rikishi sitting dohyo-side awaiting their bouts can raise a hand and stop the bout, too. I remember Takanonami stopping a bout that way once years ago.

I think thought of an interesting question. Does anyone know if the bout is considered officially over the moment a shinpan or rikishi raises his hand, or if it's just an "aid to gyoji" as Manekineko suggests?

[Manekineko]

Actually, the rank and file rikishi sitting dohyo-side awaiting their bouts can raise a hand and stop the bout, too. I remember Takanonami stopping a bout that way once years ago.

I don't think he stopped the bout, just objected to the gyoji's ruling once the bout was over.

[Kirinoumi]

I don't think he stopped the bout, just objected to the gyoji's ruling once the bout was over.

Takanonami or Mihogaseki Oyakata? In Takanonami's case, I believe the gyoji stopped the bout when he saw Takanonami's hand. In this case, Mihogaseki Oyakata had his hand raised during the bout, but I don't think the gyoji saw him until after the bout. It was actually a little funny to see the gyoji point one way, see (or hear) Mihogaseki Oyakata, then immediately point the other way. I feel for the gyoji: Just like NFL referees, they never seem to get any attention until they make a mistake.

Edited September 22, 2008 by Kirinoumi